Confusion on Shinkansen & passes

Hi,

We have a group of 4 adults & 3 kids (10, 8 & 5)visiting japan this coming Nov 21 - 28. Going into Kansai,then go to Kyoto (staying near uzumasa station ( 3 nights) and then to tokyo (stay near asakusa) by shinkansen, spend 4 nights and out on 28th at Narita.

My questions;
1) Which train company should we use to travel from Osaka to Kyoto?

1) We like to cover kiyomizudera, gion, arashiyama, Inari shrine and the romance train. Is it enough to cover in 2 days? We also like to go Osaka for some nice food. Should we buy the kansai through pass with the ICOCA card? so confused with the passes.

2) From kyoto to tokyo, we plan to take shinkansen, ticket can be purchased at kyoto station or can we buy at kansai airport?

3) Also confused with the narita skyliner and narita access express. Since we are staying near asakusa, is it better to take narita acess express? Can we buy the ticket from tokyo station or at kansai airport first day arrive? Keisei website didnt mention we can buy from tokyo station.

4) Which pass should we use in tokyo since we are planning for a day in disneyland, that leave us 2 full days in tokyo to cover shibuya, shinjuku & ginza. JR pass?

Appreciate your help.. thanks.

1) JR
where are you staying in Osaka is the main question

1) Yes you can
Kids may be tired out
If in november, it is autumn period, so make the reservation for the romantic train. There are only a few rides a day so book early

Use the Icoca and Haruka pass

Any station with a JR office
All stations which has Shinkansen
You can just go to the station where you would be taking your train, there would be the appropriate ticketing


3) can buy from the station where you would be taking your train

Hi Joshua,

To clarify again:
1) We are not staying in osaka. We are planning to go kyoto once we arrive Kansai airport at 9am. As with 4 luggages & 3 kids i don't think we want to carry them around while visiting osaka. We are thinking of coming to osaka later in the evening for dinner. Is it troublesome that way or is there anywhere we can keep our luggage?
2) Is it correct to say we should buy the Haruka & ICOCA to travel from kansai to kyoto station?
3) If ICOCA cannot be used in Kyoto city bus, is it advisable to buy the Kyoto city bus exclusive one day card (500Y)
4) With the ICOCA bought at Kansai, we can use them in tokyo right? but it only cover tokyo metro. should we buy another Toei One-day economy pass (700Y) to cover subway? Does it pay off? We are coming from kyoto on 24th, staying at tokyo (apartment near asakusa) from 24-28. places to cover are shinjiku, shibuya, ginza, asakusa, odaiba, tokyo skytree.
5) What about the JR Yamanote line? Advisable to get this since we are in tokyo 4 nights, with a day in disneyland.

Sorry for having so many questions. THank you.

1) We are not staying in osaka. We are planning to go kyoto once we arrive Kansai airport at 9am. As with 4 luggages & 3 kids i don't think we want to carry them around while visiting osaka. We are thinking of coming to osaka later in the evening for dinner. Is it troublesome that way or is there anywhere we can keep our luggage?

Travel between Kyoto and Osaka is pretty easy. Since you're staying near Uzumasa Station you'll probably wanna take JR back to Kyoto and the special rapid to Osaka Station. Takes about 45 mins not including the transfer at Kyoto.

2) Is it correct to say we should buy the Haruka & ICOCA to travel from kansai to kyoto station?

Yes, that would pay off.

3) If ICOCA cannot be used in Kyoto city bus, is it advisable to buy the Kyoto city bus exclusive one day card (500Y)

Only if you plan to take more than 2 bus rides that day. Otherwise it's cheaper to pay as you go.

4) With the ICOCA bought at Kansai, we can use them in tokyo right?

Yes

but it only cover tokyo metro.

No, you can use it on the entire Tokyo train network, JR and private.

should we buy another Toei One-day economy pass (700Y) to cover subway? Does it pay off?

No, it generally doesn't pay off.

5) What about the JR Yamanote line?

Just use your ICOCA

Thank you very much!! That clear off a lot!!

Hi yllwsmrf,

1) The Icoca even cover toei subway?

2) the Haruka can only be used once from kansai to kyoto right?

Thanks!!

1) The Icoca even cover toei subway?

yes

2) the Haruka can only be used once from kansai to kyoto right?

There is a roundtrip version but it must be used within 14 days.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_icoca_haruka.html

[Flights, accommodations and the order of places]

Assuming that you can rebook your flights and accommodations with no or little additional cost, I suppose it may be better to fly into Narita Airport [NRT] or Haneda Airport [HND], tour Tokyo, travel to Kyoto, tour Kyoto and fly out from Kansai Airport [KIX].

November 24 of 2014 will be a substitute holiday because the previous day November 23 will be a national holiday and a Sunday. So, the weekend from November 22 will be practically expanded to be 3 days until November 24.
During these 3 days, popular tourist spots may be crowded, especially some in Kyoto City if they are still in the autumn foliage season. Also, Tokyo Skytree and Tokyo Disney Parks may well get many visitors including kids.

Anyway, regardless of whether you tour Tokyo earlier or later, I suppose November 25 (Tuesday), which will be a normal weekday, may be better for you to visit Tokyo Disney Resort in terms of possible crowdedness.
Also, staying overnight in TDR is worth considering.
A guest of any of the three Disney Hotels + the six Tokyo Disney Resort Official Hotels can purchase a Tokyo Disney Park ticket in the hotel, and can be guaranteed admission to the Disney Park on the specified day if entry is restricted due to crowdedness outside the Park.
http://www.tokyodisneyresort.jp/en/about/rh/index.html

[Tokyo trips and traveling to NRT]

Could you clarify what you will visit in Shinjuku, Shibuya, Ginza and Asakusa areas and which station is good for your Asakusa hotel?
Many routes are possible, and it is difficult to recommend specific routes without knowing locations of your starting point and destinations.

[JR and Sagano Scenic Railway tickets]

we arrive Kansai airport at 9am.
From Kyoto to Tokyo, we plan to take Shinkansen, ticket can be purchased at Kyoto station or can we buy at Kansai airport?

You can purchase your JR tickets, ICOCA Cards and Sagano Scenic Railway (Romantic train) tickets for this journey all in the JR Ticket Office in Kansai-airport Station.
You are highly likely to become free to travel by the noon, so you can have enough time to get them.

The 5-year-old kid, when he/she is accompanied by an adult and does not use a reservation-requiring facility, can travel by rail basically free of fees.
When he/she has a reserved seat, child-rate fees (= basic fare and additional charge) are required.

[Form KIX to Uzumasa]

Which train company should we use to travel from Osaka to Kyoto?

The company is JR-West [West Japan Railway Company], which is one of the six JR regional passenger railway companies.

JR Ltd. Express "Haruka" trains are connecting Kansai-airport Station and Kyoto Station in roughly 1 and a half hour per way.
JR "Haruka" trains from KIX use Track 30 or Track 0 of Kyoto Station.
You may need to wait for your second train for about 20 minutes in Kyoto Station.
You can take a JR Local train on Sagano Line from Kyoto (departing at nearby Track 31, 32 or 33) to Uzumasa for about 15 minutes. (Faster trains skip Uzumasa Station.)

Is it correct to say we should buy the Haruka & ICOCA to travel from Kannai to Kyoto station?

There seems to be no child-rate edition of the ICOCA & Haruka packages.
I suppose the 10-year-old kid and the 8-year-old kid can choose the packages just as adults do. (They can return the adult-rate ICOCA Cards in Uzumasa Station, paying 220 yen per card as a handling fee.)
If they cannot choose the packages, the JR cost to get to Uzumasa is estimated at 1520 yen per child, which consists of 940 yen + 100 yen as child-rate basic fares covered by a Child Suica Card and 480 yen as a child-rate Ltd. Express charge (without seat reservation) paid separately in advance.
A Child ICOCA Card is issued by JR-West in its office, with personal data of the holder (such as the date of birth) registered.

The JR cost for the four adults to get to Uzumasa is estimated at 1230 yen per adult, which consists of 1030 yen on the ticket in the package (without seat reservation) + 200 yen as a basic fare covered by the ICOCA Card.

The ticket in the ICOCA & Haruka package is not valid on JR Sagano Line.
Please note that each of you will exit JR once and enter JR again in Kyoto Station. Central Gate is near the platforms for your trains.

For your information: A studio park managed by a major Japanese film company's affiliate is located near Uzumasa Station.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3934.html

[Kyoto and Osaka trips]

Which places in Osaka City will you visit? Only Dotonbori food-and-drink area?

To visit Kiyomizudera Temple, Gion district and (Fushimi) Inari Shrine in one day, you can use Kyoto City buses.
A Kyoto City Bus - Kyoto Bus One-day Pass can pay off in two or more rides inside the fixed-fare zone, which includes the bus stops for these places.
The pass for an adult (roughly over 12) is sold at 500 yen. The pass for a child (roughly 6 to12) is sold at 250 yen.
You can purchase these passes in the bus information center near Central Gate of Kyoto Station.

You can take one JR train on Sagano Line for a few minutes (in the opposite direction of Kyoto Station) from Uzumasa Station to Saga-Arashiyama Station, which is near Torokko Saga Station of Sagano Scenic Railway.
http://www.sagano-kanko.co.jp/brochure/english.pdf
An ICOCA Card / a Child ICOCA Card can be used to travel between Uzumasa and Saga-Arashiyama. The one-way fare is 140 yen / 70 yen.

IC transportation cards such as ICOCA Cards are not accepted on Kyoto City Bus lines, Kyoto Bus lines or Sagano Scenic Railway line.
A Kansai Thru Pass is a non-JR transpiration pass. In your current itinerary, probably you will not have chances to use non-JR lines enough for this pass to pay off.

I recommend that you receive a refund of ICOCA before going to Tokyo from Kyoto, if you do not set aside as a souvenir it.

For two days of sightseeing in Tokyo, it is recommended that you purchase the Tokyo Metro Two-day Open Ticket. It is not available only Tokyo Metro, but it is possible to go to Shinjuku, Shibuya and Ginza from Asakusa. There is a need to buy a ticket separately in order to go to Disneyland.
Tokyo Metro Two-day Open Ticket:
http://www.tokyometro.jp/en/ticket/value/travel/index.html#anc02

Indeed, it is possible to use the ICOCA when you ride the Tokyo subway and metro, private railway and JR East. However, when you go home, it is not possible to receive a refund of ICOCA in Tokyo and Narita. It is necessary to ask for the refund procedure to sell the company IC card, it is only possible at the station of JR West in the case of ICOCA.

A lot of people say IC card is very convenient, but I have the opinion that it is not necessarily so for tourists. Balance is subtracted from the card every time you want to get on and off the train a lot. Card holder must keep the charge in advance so that there is no lack of balance. When the lack of balance, it is necessary to be settled, therefore, the convenient to use automatic ticket gate would be reduced.
IC Cards:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_003.html

Dear passby168: Tokyo Metro Two-day Open Ticket is not available in any Tokyo Metro Station. That can be confirmed in that webpage.

Dear omotenashi,
Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

I was aware of my explanation about the purchase of Metro Pass has not enough. In order for foreign travelers coming to Tokyo to buy it, they have to go to the store of Bic Camera, as long as it is not a guest of some hotels. Indeed, it is a drawback when it uses this Pass.
http://www.tokyometro.jp/en/ticket/value/travel/index.html#anc02
In any case, it is due to the preference of the questioner whether to use any of the IC card or Metro Pass. If you use them unless you understand in advance the system of them, they will be very useful for the trip of travelers.

2) the Haruka can only be used once from kansai to kyoto right?

I think you want to go to Osaka on the first day, back from
Kyoto and then go back to your hotel in Uzumasa. Then if you buy the Icoca and Haruka package, your Uzumasa-Osaka-Uzumasa part is not covered by the Haruka part of the package. You must pay by your Icoca card.

If you do the round trip from Kyoto (Uzumasa) to Osaka on the first day, I think your best bet will be JR Kansai Area Pass.

https://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/travel-information/pass/kansai/

At 2060 yen you will be able to do the unlimited ride of Haruka (non-reserved seat). I recommend to go to Tennoji where Haruka goes after Shin-Osaka. In general Haruka will be less crowded as compared to commuter trains such as "rapid" and "special rapid"

Thank you all for your responses. I am getting more confused now ;p
Let me study all these info again and readjust my itinenary to avoid the 2 days holiday, if possible. I will get back to you if i have further questions.

Thank you!!

Thank you all for your responses. I am getting more confused now ;p

Some people need to understand there is such a thing as too much information. ;)

Here's some further advice to confuse you ;)

I'm gonna disagree with some previous posters and say not to worry about using day passes in Tokyo. In my opinion they just complicate things and don't end up saving all that much money (probably only 100-200 yen on average). IC cards like Icoca are easiest, and allow you to take the most convenient option from A to B.

I also wouldn't worry about refunding your Icoca card in Kansai. The deposit is only 500 yen, and it's easy enough to keep the balance low enough that you won't have large sums of unrecoverable money at the end of your trip. Use it through Tokyo and save the card for next time, they don't expire for at least 10 years.

Most transportation passes can be purchased inside Japan, so you do not have to think about them months before your arrival. One important exception is nationwide Japan Rail Pass, but now at present you are not likely to need one.

Anyway, I suppose you still have much time to improve your itinerary.

Hi Omotenashi,

I dont quite understand your earlier comments:
""There seems to be no child-rate edition of the ICOCA & Haruka packages.
I suppose the 10-year-old kid and the 8-year-old kid can choose the packages just as adults do. (They can return the adult-rate ICOCA Cards in Uzumasa Station, paying 220 yen per card as a handling fee.)
If they cannot choose the packages, the JR cost to get to Uzumasa is estimated at 1520 yen per child, which consists of 940 yen + 100 yen as child-rate basic fares covered by a Child Suica Card and 480 yen as a child-rate Ltd. Express charge (without seat reservation) paid separately in advance.
A Child ICOCA Card is issued by JR-West in its office, with personal data of the holder (such as the date of birth) registered.

The JR cost for the four adults to get to Uzumasa is estimated at 1230 yen per adult, which consists of 1030 yen on the ticket in the package (without seat reservation) + 200 yen as a basic fare covered by the ICOCA Card.

The ticket in the ICOCA & Haruka package is not valid on JR Sagano Line.
Please note that each of you will exit JR once and enter JR again in Kyoto Station. Central Gate is near the platforms for your trains.

You can take one JR train on Sagano Line for a few minutes (in the opposite direction of Kyoto Station) from Uzumasa Station to Saga-Arashiyama Station, which is near Torokko Saga Station of Sagano Scenic Railway.
http://www.sagano-kanko.co.jp/brochure/english.pdf
An ICOCA Card / a Child ICOCA Card can be used to travel between Uzumasa and Saga-Arashiyama. The one-way fare is 140 yen / 70 yen. ""


In the first 2 paragraph above, you mentioned ICOCA is issued by JR west, then why is it can't be used in JR Sagano Line (on your 3rd paragraph). Do you mean the Sagano scenic?
What about paragraph 4?

Thank you.

I think he means that you can't use the Haruka ticket to go beyond Kyoto Station. You'll have to exit the gates and then reenter using the ICOCA card. The fare from there to Uzumasa is 200 yen.

One-way ICOCA & Haruka package is composed of one (adult-rate) ICOCA Card + one ticket which is to be used inside the designated zone of JR-West from Kansai-airport Station. (This ticket is a one-day one-way ticket, not a rail pass.)

JR Sagano Line is outside the designated zone for the ticket in ICOCA & Haruka package.
So, when you choose ICOCA & Haruka, you can travel with the ticket only to Kyoto Station.
On the other hand, Kyoto -- Uzumasa -- Saga-Arashiyama on JR Sagano Line is inside the same area for ICOCA as Kansai-airport -- Kyoto.

You will change trains via platforms close to Central Gate in Kyoto Station. So, it sounds easier to settle the payment (200 yen per adult / 100 yen per child for Kyoto -- Uzumasa) automatically with an ICOCA Card / a Child ICOCA Card person by person, than to make fare adjustment in Uzumasa Station, submitting all the tickets and cards.
That�fs why I suggest you use Central Gate in Kyoto Station.

Which is the long way of saying:

you can't use the Haruka ticket to go beyond Kyoto Station. You'll have to exit the gates and then reenter using the ICOCA card. The fare from there to Uzumasa is 200 yen.