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visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 00:02
I got a three-year SHIS visa a little under a year ago, but I quit the job that was sponsoring me. I am supposed to find another sponsor, or my visa will not be renewed.

I am not having trouble finding work, but it's a little more difficult to find a sponsor. I'm thinking I might be married within a year, so I'm wondering if I should stop looking for a sponsor for my SHIS visa and just plan on applying for a spouse visa.

My question is: if I get work but no sponsor for my SHIS visa, is it likely to mean my spouse visa would be denied?
by olcapshi  

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 08:47
Will you get married before your current visa expires?
by / (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 09:10
I am not having trouble finding work, but it's a little more difficult to find a sponsor.

If you find a new job, then your new employer is your sponsor. Otherwise, you will likely have to change your residency status as you'd no longer fulfill the requirements of your residency.

I'm thinking I might be married within a year, so I'm wondering if I should stop looking for a sponsor for my SHIS visa and just plan on applying for a spouse visa.

Depends on how soon you'll be married. If within the next 3 months then I'd probably go this route, however if you don't know by now then it's probably more prudent to find a new job and get sponsorship that way.

My question is: if I get work but no sponsor for my SHIS visa, is it likely to mean my spouse visa would be denied?

No, they are typically separate issues.
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 12:59
you may misunderstand that you have a right to stay for 3 years, if you have a 3-year working visa(status).
by ken (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 15:04
Two of you have suggested I misunderstood. Yes, it's possible. I did go to a visa councilor at International Center, and I asked about this question. There were two of them, one of whom spoke English, and there was a fluent translator there as well. They claimed that I did not have to leave the country, but that I would get a "black mark" (their words) that would keep my visa from being renewed again...
by olcapshi rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 15:21
Well, what is your situation exactly? You have SHIS status, and you recently left your job at the employer who sponsored your visa application. I hope you have notified immigration of this, as you are required to do.

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/19.html

Then you took new jobs. What jobs? If they don't fall within the scope of your status, that's a legal violation (unless you obtained prior permission from immigration). Also, you are required to notify immigration when you take a new job, as well.
by Firas rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 18:36
So you left your employer under 1 year into your contract, though you have a 3-year resident status (visa).

You need to inform Immigration (I hope you did) within 14 days that you've left your employer (your "sponsor"). You have usually a few months to find a new employer in the same category if you want to keep that resident status that you have. If you find one in the same category, you can go to Immigration with papers with your new employer as the sponsor, and you can continue to stay in Japan and work on that resident status for that employer.

If you find an employer but in a different category (requiring a different kind of work visa), you need to file for that new kind of resident status.

If you get married in the meantime, however, your Japanese spouse will be the sponsor, so to say, and you can apply for a change of status from your work resident status (sponsored by your employer) to spouse of Japanese national (sponsored by your spouse).

But you cannot stay simply on until the end of the three-year period without doing one or other of the above.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 22:12
Well, it looks like I might be screwed.

After going to visa consultation last autumn, I quit my job at the end of November, and my girlfriend and I went back to the US to meet/visit my family. When I quit my job, I went to the immigration office in my city. They handed me a form and an address and said to send the form to the address within 14 days, which I did. This was the notification of ending my contract with my employer. However, they didn't tell me to send a copy of my residency card, which it says to do on that website.

I came back to Japan and am looking for jobs. My resume is out to a number of employers in the same field I was in before (teaching English). To find part-time jobs teaching English and live is easy, but visa sponsorship offers seem to be limited to full-time positions, which are harder to get.

(From what I understand, what is stated above, that my next employer is my sponsor is not quite accurate. For example, my neighbor is "self-sponsored" but, according to him, he had to have an agreement with a primary employer in addition to the others that give him enough income to get a visa... anyhow, let's get into a discussion of this point please...)

What I understood from my visa consultation is that my visa would not be cancelled and that I just had to keep immigration informed of my status, but that if I didn't find another sponsor, I would get the "black mark" mentioned above.

As I figured I would either be married or back in the US within a year, I wasn't concerned about the visa renewal.

(I only started to get concerned about the spouse visa because in researching it, I came across some examples of people who had been denied... I thought it was just a given--you're married and not a criminal? Okay, you get a spouse visa. But it's not quite that easy, I guess.)

(BTW, I quit the job that was sponsoring my visa because my employer led me to believe that if I renewed my visa with him and stayed in Japan, he would make me a manager in the near future. Then he back-tracked... I'm not interested in discussing this, but I didn't just get a visa and run.)
by olcapshi rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 22:28
I don't understand the difference between residency status and visa. When I look them up on other websites, they appear to be the same thing.

As I mentioned above, I asked the visa councilor multiple times and in different ways whether my visa would be cancelled without a sponsor. He said no. In fact, I asked him specifically whether I could stay in the country for three years without a sponsor, and he said yes but that I wouldn't be able to get my visa renewed.

Can the person who posted as (guest) and mentioned the residency status please clarify... what is your expertise? If you work in US State dept or something, you might know more than the visa councilors (I think they were lawyers: they provide free services once a month at an international community center).
by olcapshi rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 23:08
I'm not sue why you think you are "screwed", I don't see any problem. However, if you still don't have a new job three months after you quit your old one, you may receive a notification in the mail that your staatus is up for revocation, and in that case you may have to leave Japan (and apply for a new visa from scratch if you want to enter again).
by Firas rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 23:35
as far as I understand,
working visa is a single entry permit to Japan "as a worker".
once you enter Japan, your visa becomes invalid. now you have a residential permit (3 years) as a worker. that permit is shown on your Zairyu card.
you have to register your current address (in Japan) as a residence at city office.
when you go out from Japan, you use your Zairyu card (residential permit). and you can re-enter Japan with your Zairyu card (not with your old working visa).
by ken (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/11 23:40
Well, I might be screwed on a few different counts...
(1) I didn't include a copy of my residency card along with my notification (although the notice did have my ID number).
(2) It was kind of giri-giri on the 14 days. Does the office need to receive the notice in 14 days, or does it just need to be posted in 14 days?
(3) I don't have any proof I sent it, so if anything went wrong with the mail, as far as Immigration will be concerned, I didn't inform them.

Reading more online, I see mention of the process of revoking my visa... This is definitely contrary to what I was told by the visa councilors... shouganai...

Right now, the problem I have is that I am at the limit on 90 days. I quit my job on the 16th of November. Assuming some of the resumes I have floating around land a job, it will be another 2-4 weeks before I can actually sign a contract, I'm sure.

I suppose I could make the case to Immigration that I was not actually in Japan for a few months. They should be able to see from passport control when I went out and came back into the country.

You know, if it were just me and I had to leave the country, no problem. But my girlfriend would be broken. I really need to try to stay in the country and work things out...

I will have to go to the immigration office tomorrow and try to talk to someone. In the past, asking them questions has been like talking to a brick wall: they just give me papers to fill out. So I'll see how it goes...

Anyone have advice on how to deal with immigration at this point?
by olcapshi rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 07:11
Interesting thread. My understanding/summary is:
* you had a work visa valid for three years provided you do the same work.
* you have been out of work for almost three months, the limit to get a replacement job.
* being out of the country does not affect the three months
* if you do not have a new job within three months of leaving the last one, you are in breach of your visa. (They can deport you and/or put you in prison.)
* also, you will need to apply for a new work visa (from scratch)
* if you leave the country and return as a temporary visitor (tourist) you could stay 90 days (I assume you are US citizen), but you are not allowed to work and will not be legally allowed to look for employment while in Japan.

The above is based on the information on the immigration web site.
by JapanCustomTours rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 07:40
The same ... Guest again, I don't have any such expertise as you mentioned, but as a Japanese married to non-Japanese spouse, who changed from one resident status to another before he got married to me, and then to spouse resident status, I know about the procedures a bit.

Resident status and visa, yes, people use those terms interchangeably, though visa is for entering the country, and once you are in Japan, you refer to resident status. So I was using the term resident status because you are in Japan,that was all. If it is simpler, I will use the term visa.

As far as I know, since you are no longer working for the country who initially sponsored you, you have lost the basis for your visa, in Japan, that is why everyone is saying that you might get a notification revoking your visa. You certainly cannot renew your visa without a new employer in the same field.

If you get married, you switch to spouse visa, and all your visa related worries will be over.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 07:43
I meant to say the "company," not "country" in my post above.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 08:23
@ JapanCustomTours:

Can you put up a link to the source you're relying on? I finally read the relevant section of the actual law, Article 22-4(1)(v), and it says:

" the foreign national residing under a status of residence... has failed to continue to engage in the activities... corresponding to that status for three months or more while residing in Japan (except for cases in which the foreign national has a justifiable reason for not engaging in the activities while residing in Japan)."
http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail/?id=1934&vm=&re=

It depends whether "residing in Japan" in this case is a technical legal term or the common meaning. By the common meaning, since I wasn't in the country for most of the last 3 months, I was not actually residing in Japan. Again, can you post the source of your statements as I find the Japanese immigration website is difficult to find things on.

@ (guest):

Your distinction between visa being for passport control and "resident status" being for legal standing inside Japan makes sense. This could also explain why the visa councilors I met with told me my visa would not be revoked... maybe. Actually, I feel they gave me very poor (either inaccurate or misleading) advice that, worst case scenario, could land me in prison in Japan for a while...
Usually, I try to investigate things and see them in writing myself. But because people in Japan are so careful and cautious, I just decided legal council wouldn't guide me wrongly here. Big mistake!!

Anyhow, I have to go immigration today and try to talk to someone. I'll post here about how it goes...
by olcapshi rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 10:15
Sorry this is gonna be long...

I came back to Japan and am looking for jobs. My resume is out to a number of employers in the same field I was in before (teaching English). To find part-time jobs teaching English and live is easy, but visa sponsorship offers seem to be limited to full-time positions, which are harder to get.

Part time work doesn't fulfill the requirements of your residency status. To do part time work exclusively you would need to be change your status to spouse or another one that doesn't require full time employment.

(From what I understand, what is stated above, that my next employer is my sponsor is not quite accurate. For example, my neighbor is "self-sponsored" but, according to him, he had to have an agreement with a primary employer in addition to the others that give him enough income to get a visa... anyhow, let's get into a discussion of this point please...)

Self sponsorship is a whole other status that doesn't apply to you. For the SHIS status you need to be employed full time and your employer would be your sponsor.

What I understood from my visa consultation is that my visa would not be cancelled and that I just had to keep immigration informed of my status, but that if I didn't find another sponsor, I would get the "black mark" mentioned above.

Yes, the black mark is because SHIS status requires a full time job. If you don't find one then you no longer fulfill the requirements of your residency and would probably lose your residency status.

(I only started to get concerned about the spouse visa because in researching it, I came across some examples of people who had been denied... I thought it was just a given--you're married and not a criminal? Okay, you get a spouse visa. But it's not quite that easy, I guess.)

It's not guaranteed, but legitimate spouse residency status is rarely denied.

I don't understand the difference between residency status and visa. When I look them up on other websites, they appear to be the same thing.

Visa and residency are often used interchangeably on Japanese forums. If you want to get more technical, a visa is what you are issued before you enter Japan. Its like a pass that says your are prechecked to get residency in Japan, which the immigration officer (usually) accepts upon your arrival and converts to the appropriate residency status.

As I mentioned above, I asked the visa councilor multiple times and in different ways whether my visa would be cancelled without a sponsor. He said no. In fact, I asked him specifically whether I could stay in the country for three years without a sponsor, and he said yes but that I wouldn't be able to get my visa renewed.

That is correct, but with the new immigration rules there is an unspecified time where you would need to get a new job or risk having your residency revoked. It is generally believed to be a window of more than 3 months.

Right now, the problem I have is that I am at the limit on 90 days. I quit my job on the 16th of November. Assuming some of the resumes I have floating around land a job, it will be another 2-4 weeks before I can actually sign a contract, I'm sure.

Don't worry about it unless you receive a warning notice from immigration. Even then, you'll have time to work out your case. Shouldn't be too much of a problem if you are actively looking for work. Full time work shouldn't be too difficult to find, especially since you are in country with a valid residency, and now is a prime hiring time for the new session in April.

It depends whether "residing in Japan" in this case is a technical legal term or the common meaning. By the common meaning, since I wasn't in the country for most of the last 3 months, I was not actually residing in Japan. Again, can you post the source of your statements as I find the Japanese immigration website is difficult to find things on.

In this case, residing means holding residency status for immigration purposes. Where you physically are at that time doesn't matter. But note that the 3 months are not set in stone, and an actual deportation process is quite time consuming with several checks along the way. They likely won't even start the process until some time after 3 months, and you'll be served notice at that point.

Your distinction between visa being for passport control and "resident status" being for legal standing inside Japan makes sense. This could also explain why the visa councilors I met with told me my visa would not be revoked... maybe. Actually, I feel they gave me very poor (either inaccurate or misleading) advice that, worst case scenario, could land me in prison in Japan for a while...
Usually, I try to investigate things and see them in writing myself. But because people in Japan are so careful and cautious, I just decided legal council wouldn't guide me wrongly here. Big mistake!!


I don't see any issues with the advice they gave you. You have to understand that enforcement does not strictly adhere to timelines, and also things have changed a bit recently that means everyone still has to wait and see how immigration is going to respond.

You are not going to prison. Worst case scenario, you are jobless for way too long, immigration serves you notice that you need to find something, then you either get employed, change your status or leave on your own. Deportation is a lengthy and effortfull process that no one wants to get involved in.

Personally, I think you need to stop worrying about all this and channel your energy into job hunting. All the factors should be working in your favor right now so get out there and get employed.
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 10:58
You know, if it were just me and I had to leave the country, no problem. But my girlfriend would be broken. I really need to try to stay in the country and work things out...

Then you need to either find a job, or change your status to one for which you qualify. There is really no other way: immigration does not care that your girlfriend will be "broken".

@yllwsmrf Where do you find that SHIS status requires full-time employment? I would find that somewhat surprising.
by Firas rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 13:50
an oldie but a goodie

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Japan-gets-tough-on-visa-violators-...

Illegal overstayers is still a hot topic in Japan.
by JapanCustomTours rate this post as useful

Re: visa/no sponsor to spouse visa... problem? 2016/2/12 16:05
I just returned from the immigration office. I went with a bilingually fluent friend, so there was no misunderstanding due to language.

The immigration officer started out by telling me the same thing as the visa councilors: that my visa was good for two more years, so I wouldn't be in the country illegally and had nothing to worry about. HOWEVER, I pressed him on this point, and then he went into the visa revocation process.

So, I can stay for two years, but I might be kicked out at any time--obviously, the two things seem contradictory on the surface. My take on the situation is that when a visa councilor/officer tells you you don't have to worry about being illegal until your visa expires, what they mean is that as long as you stay within the guidelines of immigration's procedures and processes, you aren't in danger of being jailed or forcibly ejected from the country. These procedures and processes include those for non-forcibly ejecting you, but from the perspective of the immigration bureaucracy, the important thing is following the procedures, so there is no contradiction between telling you that you can stay in the country legally for 2 more years and telling you that your residence status is going to be revoked.

According to the immigration officer, you have 3 months to find a job after your contract stops*. After 3 months, theoretically, you can have your residency status revoked and you can be deported at any time, but it is very unlikely that immigration will start the revocation procedure unless you have failed to send them a notification of new contract after 6 months.

So, basically, the system is just non-transparent. Possibly you can be deported after 3 months, but probably not, but you don't know. He told me not to worry about anything for 3 more months.

In another place, I saw mention of applying for an extension of the grace period--if you haven't found a job in 90 days, you can apply for another 90. He said this is inaccurate; there is no way to apply for an extension.

The fact that I was out of the country for 2 months makes no difference. The clock starts from your last day of work at your previous company.

The place where the immigration officer differed from yllwsmrf's post above is in what happens after they start the revocation process. I asked him specifically, "if I get a call from Tokyo telling me that they are starting the visa revocation process, and I then sign a contract with a company, will the process be halted and my visa be back in good standing?" He said no. He said once the visa revocation process is started, it becomes very difficult to stay in the country. Basically, it sounded like once they decide to revoke your visa, they're set against you, and you probably have to get legal representation and fight them.

Unfortunately, I didn't think to ask him about the issue of finding full-time vs. part-time work. But I suspect yllwsmrf is correct and that a part-time job does not satisfy the requirements. I say this because (1) I have never seen a company offer to sponsor a visa for someone in a part-time position even though it doesn't really cost them to sponsor someone, and (2) the first SHIS visa I was sponsored for, I was actually working something like 36 hours per week, but my employer fudged the numbers when he submitted the visa application paperwork. Why would these both be true unless you need a full time job to meet the requirements of the visa? Also, if you could fulfill the visa requirements with part-time jobs, there wouldn't effectively be much difference between a regular SHIS visa and a self-sponsored visa. So, I suspect yllwsmrf is correct.


* BTW, he looked me up in their computer system, and my notification of stopping my previous contract was accepted without a copy of my residency card.
by olcapshi rate this post as useful

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