community-forum community-penpal community-userReports destinations-admission destinations-beenThere-outline destinations-beenThere-solid destinations-city_outline destinations-city_solid destinations-closedDays destinations-date destinations-getThere destinations-hotels destinations-hoursFees destinations-itineraries-3 destinations-links destinations-nearbySpots destinations-pin-simple-outline destinations-pin-simple destinations-sortBy-dots destinations-thumbsUp destinations-tours destinations-town destinations-wishlist-heart-outline destinations-wishlist-heart-solid interests-agriculture interests-amusementParks interests-beaches interests-castles interests-city_solid interests-contemporaryArt interests-events interests-festivals interests-flowers interests-foodDrink interests-gardens interests-hiking interests-historicSites interests-industry interests-koyo-single interests-koyo interests-mangaAnime interests-museums interests-nature interests-onsen interests-parks interests-pottery interests-sakura-single interests-sakura interests-scenicRides interests-shopping interests-shrines interests-skiing interests-snow interests-sumo interests-temples interests-traditionalArts interests-traditionalTheater interests-viewpoints interests-volcanoes interests-wildlife interests-winterIlluminations news-section planning-section planning-tickets-2 planning-transportation-access planning-transportation-bicycle planning-transportation-boat-2 planning-transportation-boat planning-transportation-bus planning-transportation-car planning-transportation-plane planning-transportation-shinkansen planning-transportation-tickets planning-transportation-train planning-transportation-walk shapes-chevron-down shapes-circle shapes-star social-fb social-gplus social-instagram social-twitter social-youtube ui-alert-construction ui-alert-warning ui-calendar ui-date ui-globe ui-lightbulb ui-no_entry ui-ok ui-pencil ui-reverse ui-search ui-time ui-video-play ui-x user-avatar

Dear visitor, if you know the answer to this question, please post it. Thank you!

Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/14 18:44
I am big fan of onsen and especially wild onsen all over the world. Saying that i am following some japanese onsen geeks who seem to have the same hobby, such like the one shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuEqeWjKa6U&feature=youtu.be&t=11s

However, i have noticed, that (japanese?) people seem to react often negatively on such videos, so i was wondering...

In my country people are admired for trying things aside from the beaten paths. (Of course, it is clear that you always do such things on your own risk, e.g. if you drop down somewhere from a mountain it will be only you to blame, but basically exploring nature aside of known streets is seen as a positive thing and people are very happy to read such peoples' experience in blogs and books.)

I assume that the ground are owned by someone, but same is here in Austria. However, aslong as you don't destroy something or leave your mess, there is the rule of free access, especially in such wild nature like mountains. Nature will also probably not mind at all (e.g. seeing the jungle in the video above, noone will ever notice that the guy was even there).

Long story short, i wanted to know if Japanese people think it is rude to search for onsen, similar like the guy in the video. What if you for example encounter a woodsman or a hunter: Will they be angry that you trespass or is it also generally allowed to go there (unless it is not written somewhere that it is forbitten of course) aslong as you respect nature and declared property?
by Glimpigumpi  

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/14 21:49
However, i have noticed, that (japanese?) people seem to react often negatively on such videos, so i was wondering...

A lot of people don't like geeks moreover YouTubers. Simple as that.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/14 21:51
ok, thanks that makes it understandable why the videos got many dislikes, but even more the point of my question was if such behaviour is considered rude or even illegal.
by Glimpigumpi rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 00:04
the point of my question was if such behaviour is considered rude or even illegal

Well, that of course depends on where he is passing through, and, honestly, you can't really judge that through the video. But if you walk through a literally unbeaten path, you do owe the risk of destroying precious plants and other tiny life. Nature lovers in Japan often nicely encourage others to, for example, not capture fireflies as they may weaken, or not stand on top of table corals as a lot of them are dying.

But again, the downside of these videos is precisely that videos can be viral. If random viewers, many with little or no knowledge of wildlife, start doing the same thing all over Japan or even all over the planet, soon it can affect nature and eventually human life.

You can say the same thing about TV, and a lot of TV shows (such as reality shows) do get criticized for that reason. But serious documentaries are made so that viewers can capture the serious tone, and there will be notices during the show to encourage viewers to be aware of the risks. On the other hand, the freedom in the internet is limitless. And limitless freedom owes a huge risk.

But, seriously, I don't know how many people would see this video and be attracted to the idea of stepping into nature to find an onsen. It's such an ugly video in every aspect, if you ask me.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 00:22
well, it is not the path that counts, it is the goal. have you seen the beauty of this onsen in the video 06:45? :-)
and since japan becomes more and more crowded with tourists everywhere it is nice to hike to some mountain onsen, where at least 99% of walking-lazy people will not go...
by Glimpigumpi rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 01:27
First of all, I don't really feel comfortable about raising the times of views for this particular footage, but I did see 6:45 and felt that it doesn't describe whatever beauty that is supposed to be there.

Like a lot of people here in Japan, I've seen lots of TV shows showing real beautiful comfortable footage of wild onsens, and there are lots of un-wild onsen facilities that are beautiful and have no one else using it.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 01:34
sorry. misstyped. it was at 06:45, but i got your point. :-)
thanks for your opinion.
by Glimpigumpi rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 01:35
damit. what a day! cant type it seems. i mean 06:55 or even better 07:00 :-)
by Glimpigumpi rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 01:45
Ah! I just remembered that most locals, including myself, enjoy the comfy facility rather than the water itself. Plus, onsen is something you enjoy at the end of the day to relax.

Even when decent, censored TV shows show geeks going through the great trouble to seek wild onsen, the comments at the studio are generally like, "That's great that they're happy, but why bother to go bathe and then get all cold and dirty and tired on your way back?"

So walking on literally unbeaten paths is one great thing (which I in fact enjoy a lot too), but doing that to find onsen is totally another.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 04:44
just out of curiosity: why are those shows censored?

and if it is not too much work, could you tell me the name of the shows that show wild onsen on TV? I couldn't find any but shows about normal onsen.
by Glimpigumpi (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 12:20
just out of curiosity: why are those shows censored?

Well, "edited" is the correct term in this case. They need to edit the footage to fit into the broadcasting schedule, and there are certain rules in broadcasting such as to not show anything against various rights or any act that may be illegal or anything that the PTA frowns upon etc., and the producers are supposed to research and make sure that the final footage can be responsible for these things. They also make sure that the footage does not physically damage you, such as in the case of a Pokemon show in which a part of the footage was too busy that it got a lot of kids going to the hospital.

and if it is not too much work, could you tell me the name of the shows that show wild onsen on TV?

I don't remember. And I meant "real" TV, not recorded versions on the internet.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/15 13:28
On that YouTube, the one comment that is there is from a local, saying that it is off limits in that area apart from the climbing trails. So I guess this person (unless with permit) might have been trespassing. But that is something you cannot tell from the video.

I guess for me at least "onsen" is for relaxing, maybe at the end of a hike or visits to museums, etc., and not part of a wild adventure. And the issues of trespassing or destroying nature would come into play as well. I would not do it. Besides, Japan is full of hot spring sources that you can dig in Tokyo to reach hot spring water as well. To me onsen comes with the surroundings and the comfortable facility and good food, certainly a bit away from the city life, but it doesn't make it attractive to me if it was in the middle of a jungle. (And I didn't find that beauty you mentioned either...)

There are some people who go for "hitou," literally, "hidden (gems of) onsen," but it means a bit of a distance and difficulty to get to established sites, not necessarily to find those spots in the wild yourself.
by AK rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/16 17:58
On that YouTube, the one comment that is there is from a local, saying that it is off limits in that area apart from the climbing trails. So I guess this person (unless with permit) might have been trespassing. But that is something you cannot tell from the video.

hmm, but until now my original question is still not answered to me: is it considered illegal or rude to wander freely through nature beside clear defined paths or can you - by default - walk wherever you want in mountain areas (i mean areas, where no "clear" property is shown or where you can expect that the land is owned by the state or unless something else is written of course).

To me onsen comes with the surroundings and the comfortable facility and good food, certainly a bit away from the city life, but it doesn't make it attractive to me if it was in the middle of a jungle.

this is clearly understandable due to the fact that in japan there are easy accessible onsen almost everywhere. but my point here is rather more like the one of a hiker: so similar like reaching the top of a mountain if you go mountaineering, or like coming to the final temple on some pilgrimage, is getting to the secret onsen in the woods. so it is rather like finding a secret or achieving a goal,not for comfort and relaxation.
in any case: after the way back i would of course still soak additionally in a some nice, comfortable onsen with good facilities, hehe :-)
by Glimpigumpi rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/16 18:30
my original question is still not answered to me

I thought I answered that question. By walking places beyond designated paths, you might be increasing the risk of ruining precious species. The risk of getting lost will increase as well, and if you are lost, a lot of taxes will be spent to rescue you.

For these reasons, you are encouraged to walk along designated paths. If you don't, I don't know if one would call that "rude", but I suppose it's not good in terms of "etiquette" or "public morality". Whether it is illegal or not depends on the specific area. So not all non-paths places are illegal. But, of course, it's hard to judge what parts are illegal. For example, private property is usually marked by very small pieces of cement, so you might accidentally pass across them if you don't walk along designated paths. I think these things are universal to a certain extent.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/17 09:21
http://newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/article/115769.php

Above was what happen when people got over their head and start to venture beyond what is allowed.
A tree in Hokkaido that became so famous and was cut down due to unruly visitor who trespasses and create unwanted incidents to the landowner. Philosophy Tree.
Seek your adventure and yet be considerate.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/17 17:41
for me it is common sense to not walk over farm-fields and other property. that's also why i said many times that always property must be respected and you must take care that you dont destroy anything. my problem is, that i dont know if land owned by the japanese state (like high mountains, nature parks,...) is also considered falling under such rules (e.g. in austria it doesnt) or not.

for example: how about this onsen: https://www.google.at/maps/place//@36.6415682,138.5475457,15.25z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244!2sJapan!3b1!8m2!3d36.204824!4d138.252924!3m4!1s0x0:0x13ea40a97eeef1bd!8m2!3d36.6454298!4d138.5537016

it seems to be in the middle of mountains, no clear walking ways, but paths are in the near area.
by Glimpigumpi rate this post as useful

Re: Exploring wild onsen - perception by Japanese 2017/4/19 17:23
Unless you know wandering is allowed, it would be best to stay on the marked paths. I think most of the National Parks are National Parks because they are being preserved for some reason. So I would try not to harm them.

As for your example, the first result on Google tells me that there appears to be a marked path leading to it:
http://www.b-gunma.com/kagusa.php
by Harimogura rate this post as useful

reply to this thread