Japanese Alps

It's my fourth time to Japan.
This time we wish to explore the Japanese Alps, Alpen Route and make tracks.
We have 14 days excluding Nagoya and we plan to have a car. I'd appreciate getting recommendations what to see, where to stay and some half/one day tracks.
Also if possible low fare for train from Nagoya to Tokyo
Thanks a lot
Eli

See my comments in this thread:
http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+152974

Thanks for you reply.
Can you recommend how to spend 3 days on the Alpen Route while having a car and I can come
from Tateyama or Omachi or both.
Can you recommend palces for hiking in all the region?
Any suggestion for low fare train between Nagoya & Tokyoyo?
Thanks

the Alpen Route while having a car and I can come
from Tateyama or Omachi or both. ]

You can not drive most of Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route. It is only accessible with public transport.

http://www.alpen-route.com/en/

Thanks for you reply.
Can you recommend how to spend 3 days on the Alpen Route while having a car and I can come
from Tateyama or Omachi or both.
Can you recommend palces for hiking in all the region?
Any suggestion for low fare train between Nagoya & Tokyoyo?
Thanks

Can you recommend how to spend 3 days on the Alpen Route while having a car and I can come
from Tateyama or Omachi or both.

I am sorry but I can't recommend having a car in Tateyama Kurobe Alpine route, since if you have a car and complete the Alpine route, you must track back for 6 hours or so to pick up your car. Of course you must pay the Alpine route fares which is about 10000 yen one way. There is a car transfer service for both direction, but this is very expensive (35000 yen I think). It depends on your dates and itinerary, but if you start at Nagoya, you might better consider Tateyama Kurobe Alpine ticket.

http://www.nagoya-info.jp/en/tickets/files/alpine_route.pdf

This is somewhat outdated pdf, but the fare is the same at present. If you start from Nagoya, buy Hida course ticket 18610 yen per person. This ticket includes one way ticket from Nagoya via Takayama to Toyama where the Alpine route starts, one way ticket from Ogisawa to Nagoya and unlimited rides of the Alpine route trains/buses/ropeways/cable cars. You can travel for 8 days and stop at anywhere on the Alpine route, Takayama, Toyama and Matsumoto etc.

Can you recommend palces for hiking in all the region?

You can do hiking from any stops in the Alpine route, including Bijodaira, Midagahara, Murodo etc. Another good place is Kamikochi, which is accessible by bus from Matsumoto (and not accessible by your own car).

Thanks
It's an intersting package. I did not find it in the JR tourist pass.
Can I buy it in Nagayo? Can I make stop overs like in the package of 5 days Alpine Takamaya Matsmoto Area 17,500 yen?
How do you recommend to split the 8 days along the route?
Thanks
Eli

Can I buy it in Nagayo?

Do you mean Nagoya? Then yes, you can buy it in Nagoya's JR stations such as Nagoya or Kanayama. This ticket is not the "tourist pass" for foreign tourist. It's basically for Japanese people but foreign tourists can also buy it on the spot.

Can I make stop overs like in the package of 5 days Alpine Takamaya Matsmoto Area 17,500 yen?

Alpine Takamaya Matsmoto Area Pass allows you unlimited rides in the area covered by the pass. For example you can go to Matsumoto and then backtrack to Nagoya and then go to Toyama, then Alpine route to Murodo, back to Toyama etc. Tateyama Kurobe Alpine route ticket allows unlimited rides (including backtrack) in the Alpine Route, but you can't backtrack in the JR sectors. Further the "stopover areas" are limited although the most touristic places (like Takayama or Matsumoto) are included in the stopover area. If you go first to Takayama, then you can stopover at Takayama, but can't backtrack to Nagoya. You must proceed to Toyama. The pros of this ticket is the 8 days validity period.

How do you recommend to split the 8 days along the route?

Two nights in Takayama/Shirakawago. Of course if you want to go to Shirakawago you must buy the bus tickets separately. Proceed to Toyama, 3 nights. You can use Toyama as the base for the Alpine route. You can see the weather of the mountain area and decide where to go. Go through Alpine Route and then to Matsumoto. If your next destination is Tokyo you don't need to go to Nagoya. You can end your trip using the ticket at Matsumoto and then take Chuo line express to Tokyo which is cheaper than Shinkansen from Nagoya to Tokyo. From Matsumoto, you should go to Kamikochi and stay there for a few nights for hiking.

Tjanks a lot.
Now I see the coplete picture.
Can I stop at Gifu? Will it be difficult to visit Yamanouchi (Jigokudani Monkey Park)?
If we stay 6 nights at Matsumoto, can we visit Mount Norikuradake and Kiso Valey?
The 8 days package I could not find it in 2017 PDF. Are you sure it's avalable?
Thanks
Eli

Can I stop at Gifu?

Yes. You can stopover between: 1 Gifu and Hida-furukawa (incl Takayama), 2 Shinano-Omachi and Matsumoto and 3 Seba and Nakatsugawa (Kiso area).

Will it be difficult to visit Yamanouchi (Jigokudani Monkey Park)?

The nearest JR station is Nagano which is off the route of this ticket. But of course you can go there by buying the ticket separately. You can also rent a car at Matsumoto.

If we stay 6 nights at Matsumoto, can we visit Mount Norikuradake and Kiso Valey?

Yes you can.

The 8 days package I could not find it in 2017 PDF. Are you sure it's avalable?

Yes. This is the official page of JR Central.

http://railway.jr-central.co.jp/tickets/otoku_tateyamakurobe/

It states the period you can use it is between 15th Apr to 30th Nov as of 2017.

First I appreciate your support
some more questions- as it looks now I'll use 8 days Alpine tickets and six days more I'll stay in Matsumoto as a base on my own.
Can I use the ticket on the 8th day to visit the Kiso valley and back?
Is it worth wile staying in Toyama to visit Kurbe George? Any idea how the whole trip will cost?
How do you recoomend now to split the first 8 days?
Thanks alot
Eli

Can I use the ticket on the 8th day to visit the Kiso valley and back?

Yes, you can use the ticket to go to the Kiso valley, maybe to Nakatsugawa where limited express stops (you can get on for free with the ticket). No, your ticket is not valid for the return trip. You must buy a single ticket on the spot, maybe from Nagiso. It will not be that expensive if you use conventional trains.

Is it worth wile staying in Toyama to visit Kurbe George? Any idea how the whole trip will cost?

Kurobe Gorge is not covered so you need to pay the fare separately. It will be nice in the autumn leave season. Total fare should be 8000-10000 yen round trip per person.

How do you recoomend now to split the first 8 days?

Well, it depends on your dates, traveling style and budget. I recommended you to stay in Toyama for 3 days. You can do the Alpine route from Toyama for free if you have Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route ticket. Alternatively you can stay at somewhere on the Alpine route and enjoy the mountain in the early morning and the evening. The downside is the cost: Hotels in the mountain area tend to be expensive (I don't say it to be outrageous though). Once you get out of the Alpine Route area, you can not go back, and you can easily find affordable hotels in Toyama area. That is why I recommended to stay long in Toyama.

Oh I must add one more thing. Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Ticket is not valid from 11th to 20th August, which is the most busy days of tourism in Japan.

Thanks.
We plan to leave Nagoya on the 5/9. Than we have 8 days with Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Ticket.
After I plan to saty 6 days in Matsmoto region and than 4 days in Tokyo (it's may 4th time).
If you think I can split the 6 days in another region also good for 0.5- 1 day hiking please let me know.
Thansk
Eli

If you think I can split the 6 days in another region also good for 0.5- 1 day hiking please let me know.

In your 6 days around Matsumoto?

It is mid September so it will be still hot in the city. Matsumoto is a little cooler than Tokyo, but there are cooler places. Of course Kamikochi is very scenic place with 1500 m height. Kamikochi is a kind of sophisticated mountain resort so the room rate of the hotel tend to be expensive. If you don't mind staying in the lodge (or tent), this place is rather affordable (12000 yen for one room, two persons, one night).

http://www.nihonalpskankou.com

Still there are vacant rooms for your dates.

http://www.nihonalpskankou.com/vacancy/?date=201709

If you want to go to Jigokudani Monkey park, you don't need to go back to Matsumoto. Rather you may want to stay Nagano city where you will enjoy Zenkoji temple. On the way from Nagano to Tokyo, there are Bessho Onsen near Ueda city. Karuizawa is also nice place with 940 m height. In general, Nagano prefecture (Matsumoto, Kamikochi, Nagano, Jigokudani, Kamikochi etc.) is nice place.

After our long constructive dialogue I think I'll do the following:
1. buy the 8 days ticket
2. Leave Nagano on the 25/9. Visit Gifu and stay 2 nights at Takayam (even though I was once).
3. Leave north to Toyama. Stay 3 nights. From Toyoma we'll spend 2 days on the Alps up to Murodo and on the third day we'll send the luggage and we'll make the full route until Omachi and then continue to Nagano and stay 2 nights.
4. On the 8th day of the ticket we'll go to Kiso valley and back to Matsumoto. Stay there and between your
recommended place at Kamikochi for 6 nights including visiting and hiking at Norikura.
5. Than to Tokyo for 4 nights
What do you say please
Thanks
Eli

Hi Eli,

Basically it looks fine to me.''

Leave Nagano on the 25/9.

It should be Nagoya. Is it 25/9 or 5/9? You may have better autumn foliage if you start on 25/9. In any case your dates are not in the peak season so you can book accommodations rather easily. But you should book when you decide the itinerary.

By the way I also do the Alpine route on 22nd-24th Sep. I hope we will have good weather. Enjoy your trip!

Thanks.
You are right. We start on the 5/9 from Nagoya. I already booked 2 nights in Kamokochi & Matsumoto...
Does the 8 days ticket covers free rides from Toyoma to the Alpen Route and back?

Thanks a lot
Eli

Does the 8 days ticket covers free rides from Toyoma to the Alpen Route and back?

In their official page

http://railway.jr-central.co.jp/tickets/otoku_tateyamakurobe/

JR central says

アルペンルート内、富山〜信濃大町間は乗車方向を問わず何度でも乗り降り自由です。ただし、信濃大町〜扇沢間のバスは信濃大町、大町温泉郷、日向山高原、扇沢停留所に限り乗り降り自由です。

Within the Alpine route from Toyama to Shinano-Omachi, you can get on/off unlimitedly, regardless of the direction.

富山地方鉄道線は、電鉄富山〜立山間が乗車方向を問わず何度でも乗り降り自由です。

You can get on/off Toyama Chihou Tetsudo from Dentetsu Toyama to Tateyama unlimitedly, regardless of the direction.

It costs about 10000 yen from Dentetsu Toyama to Shinano-omachi (though you will not go as far as Shinano-omachi except for the last day) and if you go to Daikanbo and back it will cost 11500 yen or so with normal ticket. I think most of the people travel only once, but still this special ticket will pay off.

By the way, the highest point of the route is 2500 m high, which means 17°C low, so prepare for the winter weather. Usually wind blows hard (sometimes 20 m/sec) so it might be even colder. I will bring my mountaineering wear.

But you must have free ”numbered ticket" issued at Tateyama cable car station.

Thanks again,

If I buy the 8 days round ticket for 18,600 Y do I need to buy also what you mentioned below?

"It costs about 10000 yen from Dentetsu Toyama to Shinano-omachi (though you will not go as far as Shinano-omachi except for the last day) and if you go to Daikanbo and back it will cost 11500 yen or so with normal ticket. I think most of the people travel only once, but still this special ticket will pay off".

I understand that from Shinano- Omachi to Nagano and back I need an extra ticket but there is a direct bus as I understood.
BTW, is it worth visiting Kawagoe (near Tokyo)?
Thanks
Eli

If I buy the 8 days round ticket for 18,600 Y do I need to buy also what you mentioned below?

No, you don't need to pay anything. Just show your ticket (with the return JR ticket from Shinano Omachi which is included in the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine route ticket) and enjoy unlimited rides.

I understand that from Shinano- Omachi to Nagano and back I need an extra ticket but there is a direct bus as I understood.

I thought you will go to Matsumoto, stay there (with sidetrips to Kamikochi, Kiso and Norikura) and then move on to Nagano. If you go to Nagano by bus, it will take 75 min and 2100 yen one way. Some buses from Ogizawa go beyond Shinano-Omachi to Nagano. If you use these buses, you are not allowed to get off at Shinano-Omachi. I am not sure wether you can take these buses paying 2100 yen, but even if you are not allowed you can take bus to Shinano-Omachi and then transfer to the bus to Nagano.

After Nagano you can go back to Matsumoto by train (70 min, 1140 yen by commuter train, 50 min 2320 yen by limited express train, non-reserved seat). In this case you give away your JR section from Shinano-Omachi to Matsumoto (of course you can go back to Shinano-Omachi by bus and then take train to Matsumoto, but this is waste of time),

By the way, you can use non-reserved seat if Limited Express train unlimitedly if you don't backtrack. But you can use reserved seat only once per one way (Nagoya to Toyama and Shinano-Omachi to Nagoya each). You can buy the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route ticket at JR Nagoya station and reserve the seat at that time. In your case you might better use the reserved seat for Gifu to Takayama and Matsumoto to Nakatsugawa. It may take some time so do it the day before starting travel (to Gifu).

is it worth visiting Kawagoe (near Tokyo)?

Personally I have not been there so I can't tell my personal opinion, but as far as I know it is a town with some preserved Edo (ancient Tokyo) style houses. If you like traditional Japanese house, then Kawagoe is a good place.