Itinerary advice

Hi there

Please could I have your advice on the below itinerary and whether it will work with time/travels?

3 nights Tokyo

1 night shibu onsen

2 nights kyoto

2 nights Miyajima (visit Hiroshima on the way)

2 nights Koya san...then question whether we cut this to 1 night and do lake kawaguchi for a night instead and a final night in Tokyo before we fly, or keep the 2 nights in koya san and do a night in lake kawaguchi and go straight to airport from there

Would really appreciate your ideas on whether this is a good itinerary and whether the travel times will be reasonable/doable.

Thank you so much

There are no answers in itinerary planning. However, most people stay only one night in Koyasan and Miyajima. In any case, I prefer to combine Tokyo at the last. Here are my thoughts.

1 Kawaguchiko
2 Miyajima
1 Koyasan
3 Kyoto
1 Shibu Onsen
3 Tokyo

It is tough to do Kawaguchiko and Shibu Onsen in line. Kawaguchiko is nearer to Haneda. So, I put Shibu Onsen just before Tokyo.

-730 HND 850-1137 Kawaguchiko (1)
920-1613 Miyajimaguchi (2)
920-1359 Koyasan (1)
908-1159 Kyoto (3)
909-1415 Yudanaka 1420-1424 Shibu Onsen (1)
939-951 Yudanaka 1013-1312 Tokyo (3)
1157-1225 HND 1325-

I usually do the farthest site at first. So, I would move to Miyajima after Kawaguchiko. The arrival would be already in the evening. Two nights in Miyajima would be mandatory here, or I would split the nights between Miyajima and Hiroshima.

I would do Koyasan just after Hiroshima. It would be good to meditate peace there.

Koyasan is in the mountainous area. It takes time even to Kyoto.

The arrival to Shibu Onsen could be a bit late, but I would stay only one night there.

Then, the remaining nights are shared between Kyoto and Tokyo.

very rushed and not enough time in tokyo and kyoto.

i'm guessing you have been there already?

Thank you! No I have never been there, but live in a big city so more keen to spend time outside of Tokyo in the slightly more off the beaten track areas.
I had a rethink and thought of doing the following- maybe more relaxed?

3 nights Tokyo
3 nights Kyoto
1 night Koya
2 nights Miyajima
1 night Tokyo

Does that work?

Why do you repeat Tokyo? Consider others.

Tokyo in, Osaka out
3 nights Tokyo
2 nights Miyajima
2 nights Koya
3 nights Kyoto

Osaka in, Osaka out
3 nights Kyoto
3 nights Tokyo
2 nights Miyajima
2 nights Koya

Osaka in, Tokyo out
3 nights Kyoto
2 nights Koya
2 nights Miyajima
3 nights Tokyo

You could add one more site doing Koya with one night.

Tokyo in, Osaka out
3 nights Tokyo
1 night Kawaguchiko
2 nights Miyajima
1 night Koya
3 nights Kyoto

Osaka in, Osaka out
3 nights Kyoto
1 night Shibu Onsen
3 nights Tokyo
2 nights Miyajima
1 night Koya

Osaka in, Tokyo out
3 nights Kyoto
1 night Koya
2 nights Miyajima
1 night Kawaguchiko
3 nights Tokyo

In your case, it could be better to minimize Tokyo and maximize the countryside.

Osaka in, Osaka out
3 nights Kyoto
1 night Shibu Onsen
2 nights Tokyo
1 night Kawaguchiko
2 nights Miyajima
1 night Koya

Thank you! The reason we repeat Tokyo is that the flights are ridiculously expensive if you do not fly in and out of Tokyo
Would the below therefore work? Is it missing anything absolutely key that should not be missed on a first trip?

3 nights Tokyo (include a day trip to the lake)
3 nights Kyoto (include trip to Nara)
1 night Koya
2 nights Miyajima
1 night Tokyo

Thank you

Define "absolute key?"

I think you are personally selling Tokyo and Kyoto short on your trip. Especially with your short stay and never being to these cities before.

Yes places like Koyasan and Miyajima are WOW! But the time taken to travel to these locations takes time away from sightseeing. And currently taking away from Tokyo and Kyoto. 2 full days in Kyoto is just wrong. You'll hate yourself afterwards when you realize you missed out on so much.

As far as I know, one of the most economical flights is a roundtrip to Kansai from your city. It could depend on the exact days, the season, and the arrival and departure times, though.

Not only the price but also your time usable in Japan is determined by the arrival and the departure times and the season; the daylight hours.

Usually, people feel enough if you stay two hours in a spot. Padding one hour for a move to the next,
three hours per spot is a good course to consider. If you start from 9 AM, you could only do one spot in the morning. After lunch, you could do one more. If in winter, that is the end. But in summer, you could do three in total.

Even without daylight, you could do some kind of night spots, such as Shinjuku, Shibuya, Gion,...

Even before 9 AM, there are spots for such hours, Meiji Shrine, Fushimi Inari, Itsukushima Shrine,...

Are you OK in such hours? I usually use morning hours for transportation. Could you follow such strategy?

So, I already said there are no answers in general. Even there are no must-sees for a first trip. Some do just for ski, or flowers in Hokkaido as a first trip, skipping both Tokyo and Kyoto.

Anyway, here is one of the most conservative itineraries for your ordering. It looks not too bad. If you are satisfied with it, just take it.

D1 A late flight to Narita. Just stay in Shinjuku.
D2 Shinjuku 915-(bus)-1100 Kawaguchiko (5h) 1640-1825 Shinjuku
The sunset is around 1630 in winter.
http://bus-en.fujikyu.co.jp/highway/detail/id/1/#timetable
D3 AM: Asakusa, PM: Shibuya
D4 Shinjuku 901-(JR)-1148 Kyoto, PM: Kiyomizudera
D5 AM: Fushimi Inari, PM: Arashiyama
D6 Kyoto 900-(Kintetsu)-935 Kintetsu-Nara (7h) 1700-(Kintetsu)-1735 Kyoto
https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&from=Kyoto&to=Nara&date=12%2F2...
https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&from=Nara&to=Kyoto&date=12%2F2...
D7 Kyoto 900-(trains)-1130 Koyasan
https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&from=Kyoto&to=Koyasan&date=12%...
D8 Koyasan 908-(trains)-1343 Miyajimaguchi
https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&from=Koyasan&to=Miyajimaguchi&...
D9 AM: Mt Misen, PM: Hiroshima
D10 Miyajimaguchi 900-(JR)-1353 Tokyo, PM: Ginza
D11 An early flight from Narita.

I think your trip plan is too ambitious. You will spend half your week traveling with little time left to enjoy. Either extend it by another full week and spend more time in between Tokyo and Miyajima, or focus on one area and save the rest for another trip.

You could easily spend one week in Tokyo and surrounding areas and do some side trips. The same applies to the Kansai area. Spend four days in Kyoto and three in Osaka and do some day trips from there as during daytime Osaka is less interesting than Kyoto. Osaka is better in the evenings.

Thank you so much for your responses! Really like the itinerary you have set out above- I think we will do something very like that, except that we fly in and out of Haneda and we will arrive early morning instead of late night

So it will be

D1- arrive Haneda, day spent in Tokyo
D2- day trip to Lake Kawaguchi/Hakone if weather is good, otherwise day in Tokyo
D3- travel to Kyoto
D4- Kyoto
D5- Kyoto with trip to Nara
D6- travel to Koya
D7- travel to Miyajima (Hiroshima on way)
D8- Miyajima
D9- back to Tokyo, afternoon there and spend night near Haneda for early flight

Booked flights last night and very much looking forward to it! Please let me know if you think the above doesn't work but sounds from the itinerary set out above that it should do- definitely understand that we are doing a lot and spending time in the country on first trip, but that is what we are most interested in- we live in a massive city so we are more interested in the cultural heart

You just made the itinerary even busier adding in Fuji 5 Lakes and Hakone. Which serious cannot be done properly in one day.

Most of you days involve are 3-4 hours travel. you really have limited time at most places due to this.

I would do Tokyo and Kyoto, and add one night of either Hiroshima, Koyasan or Fuji 5 Lakes or Hakone.

My issue is I want to do it all, and especially the countryside bits!
We could miss the Hakone day, so I think we are only travelling on 3ish days?

Well, your itinerary certainly doable however you wont see much if you want to see everything.

If you want to have relax trip then you need to select one area per day otherwise you will only see Japan through train and subway for most of your visit.

What I did when I went to Japan based on your itinerary

Day 1: Arrive in Haneda and go to Tokyo Sky Tree and surrounding area
Day 2: Kawaguchiko lake
Day 3: Morning shinkansen to Kyoto. Kiyumizudera and surrounding area (Gion)
Day 4: Arashiyama, kinkakuji, ryoanji,
Day 5: Fushimi Inari, Nara
Day 6: Day trip Koyasan
Day 7-8: Miyajima, Hiroshima (I don't have a change to go to this site yet)
Day 9: Back to Tokyo

Well its example of a relax trip with my wife and 9 years old kid.

"My issue is I want to do it all,"

With this thinking you are able to SAY you have been to few more places but for the experience, I don't agree it is doing it all. You just get to a place, rush through it and spend more time in a train.

Thank you so much for your responses- thinking of missing the trips to Hakone and Nara to keep it a bit more relaxed- so we have the following- bit better?!

D1-2- Tokyo
D3-5- Kyoto
D6-Koya
D7-8-Miyajima
D9-Tokyo

KEEP NARA!!!!!

If you want to do all, just do it. Only you can judge how you will enjoy your trip.

Make a list of all the places you want to see/do in each city. I usually add open/close time and entrance fee when I make my list.

Then Highlight the ones you really really really want to see/do. The can't miss. The must see/do.

Asterisk the ones you want to see/do but can miss it if can't fit it in when you visit. The ones you won't cry over. The ones you wish you had time but if can't make it I won't' cry or regret it.

The remaining on the list: If can, can. If no can, no can (Hawaii local quote)

Go on Google Maps or whatever mapping app you know of and plot all the places down so you can see it visually. Use hyperdia.com to see time traveling to each location.

Figure out when you want to start your day. Me, I'm an early morning person. That means I'm already out site seeing (there is always someplace open to see) or I do my traveling early. Most of the sites close late afternoon/early evening. Best to check open/close times for each location.

Plan on how long you want to spend in each area (just be ready to spend time longer or even spend less time cause it may not be interesting as you thought it would be). Don't forget to plan when you eat (especially lunch) unless you're like me and just grab whatever (street food vendor, vending machine, convenience stores, etc) and have better meals in the evening. Maximize time having your meals when on Shinkansen so that doesn't cut into your site seeing time.

What usually messes me up is "shopping". That damn Daiso store in Harajuku just messed me up.

Some say don't plan your day. Just go with the flow. But if you just have a rough plan (don't have to be highly detailed) you'll at least won't be wasting your time criss-crossing all over the city/town.