Nozomi trains

we are going from Hakata to Kyoto. Since not able to use JR pass on Nozomi trains, what other ways can we do?

Or there is domestic flight?

http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+75239

we are going from Hakata to Kyoto. Since not able to use JR pass on Nozomi trains, what other ways can we do?

By Hikari trains with a transfer at Shin-Osaka along the way.

Or there is domestic flight?

Yes, flights operate between Fukuoka Airport and Itami Airport. The regular fare is around 20000 yen but you may be able to get discount tickets for around 11000 yen.

See this page for more information on travel between Fukuoka and Kyoto:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4802.html?aFROM=2158_2161

Note that the Nozomi is faster than the Hikari but not so much that you notice the difference in speed when you are inside. We used Nozomi with a JR Sanyo West pass, to go from Osaka to Hiroshima then Fukuoka and back.
One Nozomi was sharp looking but another looked like a Hikari even though it truly was a Nozomi run.. The name is more about the type of service than about a type of train as older trains previously used on Nozomi runs are now on Hikari runs..

I was always under the impression that nozomi-trains ran faste (km/hrs) than the regular shinkansen. Is this not true? Is the only benefit of a nozomi its schedule (less stops)?
BTW I measured the speed with a GPS a couple times (in non-Nozomi trains) and came never above 275km/hrs).
And just wondering. Why is the Japan rail pass excluding the Nozomi trains?
B. Slager

another question, if we only have the JR KYSHU Pass, can we use it for our train ride from Fukuoka to Kyoto or OSaka?

To shizuka,
(On Kyushu rail pass)
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_05.html

To B. Slager,

Considering the tremendous discount non-residents get with Japan Rail Pass, a bit of restriction or inconvenience should be tolerated, don't you think? :) Another thing is that since JR Pass holders get no penalty for dropping a reservation, including Nozomi in JR Pass coverage "could" lead to major blocking of seats unused, which would be a huge inconvenience for local travelers who need to pay full fare but cannot reserve seats...

Tks. which means our Kyshu JR pass is not valid to travel from Hakata to Kyoto.

It's not only an inconvenieance for local travellers if a non-residence drops a reservation... I cannot imagen that this is the reason for not being able to use the Nozomi with the railpass. Also dropping an reservation and making a new is harder as they now-a-days put a stamp in the railpass when you make a reservation.
And the tremendous discount just depends how much you travel. For instance if you travel from Tokyo to Osaka vs and do some local travelling with a one week pass the savings are not that tremendous.
B. Slager

One Nozomi was sharp looking but another looked like a Hikari even though it truly was a Nozomi run.. The name is more about the type of service than about a type of train as older trains previously used on Nozomi runs are now on Hikari runs..

Both trains use the 300, 700 and N700 trainsets, just on different schedules, and with different paint schemes depending on the line.

I was always under the impression that nozomi-trains ran faste (km/hrs) than the regular shinkansen. Is this not true?

The two types of trains run similar top speeds on the same sections of track. You're right in that the difference in the time taken for a given journey is mainly based on the Nozomi skipping more stops than the Hikari.

Is the only benefit of a nozomi its schedule (less stops)?

It also has a more frequent schedule and through service from Tokyo to Hakata, whereas the Hikari requires a transfer along the way. Also, the Nozomi N700 trainsets offer power plugs and paid wifi access (from Tokyo to Shin-Osaka).

Why is the Japan rail pass excluding the Nozomi trains?

I believe its a carryover from when the Nozomi was a sort of first class train. It used to be a lot more expensive and a lot less frequent than the Hikari than it is today.

Go B. Slager, go.lol
I agree with you. Please send your complaints to JTO & other organizations.
I have sent many mails. More complaints from travelers, the better to pressure the JR management.
It is a mismanagement. Why not show case and have the foreign tourists opportunity to ride on the fastest bullet. They are trying to sell the shinkansen train to Brazil, USA, other countries competing against French TGV. But foreign tourists can not experience w/JRPass?
Also there is a slight discrimination going.
If Japanese tourists w/ foreign residency ride Nozomi w/JRPass, they have blind eyes on them, so I heard from a Japanese travel agency in US. As you know the Nozomi fare is the same as Hikari on unreserved seating. The reserved fare difference is insignificants so ther is no reason..
It is a pure misguided marketing strategy.
They have no data how the JRPAss is used so no P&L data as you just flash through the gate. The Korea Rail has more data as they actually ticket from KRPass.
It will be interesting when the Maglev starts operation in 15 yrs. I hear that the name "Nozomi" will be used for it. Then, the shinkansen has no Nozomi but Hikari & Kodama only that JRPass is valid?

It will be interesting when the Maglev starts operation in 15 yrs. I hear that the name "Nozomi" will be used for it. Then, the shinkansen has no Nozomi but Hikari & Kodama only that JRPass is valid?

I would expect that the JR pass would stay exactly the same. Valid on shikansen but not Nozomi, meaning you'll end up being able to take all the shinkansen but will not be able to use the maglev with a JR Pass. Of course this is just speculation.

Here we go with the "discrimination" thing again.

There is nothing that prevents a foreigner, black, white, blue or red who wants to ride the Nozomi Shinkansen to buy a shinkansen ticket.


From Hakata to Kyoto you can still use the Hikari Rail Star to Shin-Osaka and change once to a train to Kyoto. There are many Hikari Rail Star departures on that route.

Seriously a pass that offers virtually unlimited travel, unlimited seat FREE seat reservations for foreigner travelers to Japan is discriminatory! WOW! I mean the obscurity of just thinking that way just drives my mind around.

It may be discriminatory... to Japanese nationals. Many people find it unfair that such a great deal is offered to foreign travellers that isn't available to local residents. But I think what Amazinga is trying to get accross is that a Japanese foreign resident might be able to get away with riding a nozomi in the unreserved section on a JR pass, however I highly doubt the conductors would allow this unless they didn't check ticket in the first place.

"I was always under the impression that Nozomi-trains ran faster (km/hrs) than the regular shinkansen"

It all depends on the route and time of the day I think. A shinkansen, like the French TGV and German Ice, needs to have a long stretch between stations in order to read the fastest commercial speed, but it will never be the max or near max POSSIBLE speed, except on very special occasions, like a test, as it could only be kept for a relatively short while before it is time to slow down sharply again for the next incoming station.

Between Osaka and Tokyo some Nozomi do the Osaka-Tokyo run non stop I think, but most have to stop at least at Kyoto ( a few minutes from Shin-Osaka,) Nagoya, Yokohama and Shinagawa. That's only 2 stops less than many Hikari on the same Shin-Osaka to Tokyo run...

I may be wrong but a train would burn way too much power accelerating to the near max possible speed then slowing down, between each station, so a quite less than max speed is more economical.

One also has to think about all the other Shinkansen on the same line that are all running within a relatively small window in time.

I think that this latest factor is the one that may dictate the max commercial speed of all the trains on a line (and yes I know that a fast train can overtake a slower one by taking a special track within a station).
Note that 275 km/h is not bad at all, especially compared to the trains we have in North America , where the fastest trains run at a max of 160 km/h and only on some stretches..

The Amtrak Cascades (Portland Oregon to Vancouver Canada-- via Seattle-- run at 127 km/h max but slow down to 30 km/h on many stretches.... and to think that old fashioned electric trains (with a vertical front and non aerodynamic cars) were running at just over 200 km.h in France in 1967..

Just to clarify, there aren't any nonstop trains between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka. All Nozomi trains on this route stop at the stops red frog mentioned (Shinagawa, Shin-Yokohama, Nagoya, and Kyoto) along the way.

To shizuka,
(On Kyushu rail pass)
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_05.html

If you gonna use the Hikari you have to make at least one transfer. you can make a transfer at Shin-Osaka, but if you have luggage this isn't very convenient because most of times you have to switch platforms. BUT you can also transfer at Okayama and than you don't have to switch platforms and usually Okayam is less crowded than Shin-Osaka. You can also make a transfer at Himeji but not all Hikari's stop at Himeji