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First Driving trip in Hokkaido 2010/9/12 23:55
Planning my first driving trip to Hokkaido as I would like to visit places that are not as well served by JR. Below is my itinerary:-

29 Sep - Tokyo to Sapporo (overnight in Sapporo)
30 Sep - Day trip to Sapporo (overnight in Sapporo)
1 Oct - Sapporo to Shikotsu-ko to Toya-ko (overnight in Toya-ko) - first day of car rental
2 Oct - Toya-ko to Bear Farm in Noboribetsu to Rera Outlets (overnight in Chitose)
3 Oct - Chitose to Kushiro (overnight in Kushiro)
4 Oct - Kushiro to Mashu-ko to Akan-ko to Kussahro-ko (overnight in Kussahro-ko)
5 Oct - Kussahro-ko to Shiretoko (overnight in Shiretoko)
6 Oct - Shiretoko to Abarishi to Sounkyo (overnight in Sounkyo)
7 Oct - Sounkyo to Asahidake (overnight in Asahidake)
8 Oct - Asahidake to Biei to Bibaushi to Furano (overnight in Furano)
9 Oct - Furano to Chitose airport (12.30pm flight to Tokyo)

I know the itinerary is packed and I would very much like to see the Autumn colours and climb Asahidake.

I also know that it is a long drive from Noboribetsu to Kushiro. Will need advice to see if I should cut that place out of my itinerary.

Finally, is there any website to obtain the drive time between travel destinations?

Thank you in advance for all your advice :)



by Jonathan Tan (guest)  

... 2010/9/13 08:23
First of all, I strongly recommend to use two different airports, if possible in order to reduce driving times and have more time for sightseeing.

For example, enter through Kushiro (or Memanbetsu) and leave through Sapporo or the other way around.

I know the itinerary is packed and I would very much like to see the Autumn colours and climb Asahidake.

The summit of Asahidake is probably covered by snow by then, but autumn colors shoul;d be great in a little bit lower elevations.

I also know that it is a long drive from Noboribetsu to Kushiro. Will need advice to see if I should cut that place out of my itinerary.

Yes, by flying into Kushiro as explained above.

Finally, is there any website to obtain the drive time between travel destinations?

In English:
http://northern-road.jp/navi/eng/index.htm

In Japanese:
http://drive.yahoo.co.jp/route/search
by Uji rate this post as useful

Thank You! 2010/9/13 18:37
Uji-san, thank you very much for your invaluable and prompt advice!

I have thought of flying in and out of Hokkaido through different cities but the domestic airfares are a little more expensive that way.

My self-drive itinerary does not account for poor weather conditions and I was really being very optimistic when I planned that ambitious itinerary.

The drive time web links provided by you are useful. Again, I am grateful for that piece of advice.

If autumn colours are the main draw for me, I will probably focus on the lakes, Shiretoko and Asahidake and skip Kushiro. Theoretically, that will be difficult because Kushiro appears to be enroute to the eastern part of Hokkaido from Noboribetsu. I actually would have loved to visit Asahikawa Zoo as well. Sigh :p
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

... 2010/9/13 22:07
have thought of flying in and out of Hokkaido through different cities but the domestic airfares are a little more expensive that way.

Have you checked Air Do on the Tokyo-Memanbetsu route? They usually have low fares. Or an air pass by JAL or ANA?
by Uji rate this post as useful

Suggest you cut back 2010/9/14 17:10
We spent 8 nights driving a similar route in July, except no Sapporo (been there before), just started and ended in Chitose. Also no Kushiro and Shiretoko. Your present itinerary would mean a lot of driving thus leaving little time for sightseeing and enjoying your holiday. Beware they have speed cameras everywhere in Hokkaido esp off-highways and if you're caught I think the fine is somthing like yen 20,000 or 25,000.
ALso, in Shikotsu-ko, we visited Marukoma onsen which was really nice (and we've been to Japan 8 times so many different onsens). Here's the link and we had a nice lunch there enjoying the really fresh sashimi from the lake which is different from your normal sushi/sashimi in the big cities.

http://www.marukoma.co.jp/spa02.htm#tenbo

http://www.marukoma.co.jp/frame-spa.htm
.
by mthk (guest) rate this post as useful

... 2010/9/16 15:11
Beware they have speed cameras everywhere in Hokkaido esp off-highways

What part of Hokkaido? I haven't seen any speed cameras off the highways in Hokkaido on my past driving trips through Hokkaido. Only on expressways. There are some cameras for the observation of traffic, but they don't serve as speed cameras. There are also some scattered manned speed controls here and there, tough, especially along national routes. But they are as (in)frequent as in the rest of Japan.
by Uji rate this post as useful

About Driving in Hokkaido 2010/9/16 15:44
Dear mthk,

Thank you for your advice. You mentioned that you had very little time to take in the sights because of the time spent on the road. Is there any place that I should cut out assuming that I am not able to change the duration of my trip and am not able to change my flight itinerary?

Did you rent a car with English GPS? What about ETC card? I understand that certain roads require toll. How do I get hold of an ETC card?

Finally, is it easy to rely on the GPS system when you drove around in Hokkaido?
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

. 2010/9/16 16:25
We've just left Hokkaido. We took a car from JR Car Rental with English GPS but it wasn't much good. Had another car with Japanese GPS and it worked much better. You need to be shown how to program it for phone nos. and then it's easy. You get good at finding phone nos. from tourist sites, ads on maps etc.
by Connie Chiwa (guest) rate this post as useful

Cars with English GPS 2010/9/17 12:55
Dear Connie Chiwa,

Thank you for your advice. Would you be able to elaborate on why you didn't find the English GPS useful?

Am I right that the input of data will be in English (for example, name of hotel or tourist attraction)? Am I also right that the map displayed on the English GPS will be the map in Japanese language just that the English GPS will provide directions (say, turn left, or turn right) in the English language?

How does one pay the toll charges on expressways? I know ETC card is needed. Did the car rental company loan you one? How and where can the ETC card be topped up? What happens to the balance value of the ETC - do you get a refund from the car rental company?

Sorry, I know I have asked loads.
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

... 2010/9/18 02:13
Uji: re speed cameras : we have driven 7 times before in Honshu and Kyushu and have exceeded the speed limits but sensibly ie: following other traffic and using common sense and have never had any problems so far--touch wood. So when Toyota Poplar at Chitose told us at the start of our rental this past July to be very careful with speed cameras in Hokkaido, we said nothing. First experience was within 1 hour of leaving Chitose on our way to Lake Shikotsu on a local road, a half hidden police car switched on its siren to stop the car behind us. We were travelling at or just over the speed limit at the time--phew ! Second time was on our way back to airport on our last day from Furano to Takikawa inter, just outside Akabira-shi I think, we were actually trapped and stopped by police radar. When the cops realised we were tourists, they asked to look at our passports and then let us off with a warning, in English--very close shave !! Elsewhere, on the straight road to Sounkyo from Pippu inter, we saw another police radar trap but you always only see it when you go past. Luckily we were following a lorry at the time. So in my book, Hokkaido is really tight on speeding.
To Jonathan : I didn't say I had very little time for sightseeing, I said YOU would if you stick to your original plan. we were ok with our plan, for example, we took 3 days from Biei to Furano, which allowed us to enjoy the many sights in the area. We COULD have driven straight thru from Biei to Furano and then just visited farm Tomita + a couple of the touristy sites in Furano and be finished in a day but I think that's what tour groups generally do and my own view is if I wanted that, I may as well just join a tour. In my humble opinion, the extra cost and effort of driving is precisely to go where tours don't + experience the local cuisine and ryokans which again many tour groups don't give you.
As for ENglish GPS or not, I think the most important consideration is whether you have driven before in Japan and whether you understand Japanese or not. Don't get me wrong, we understand very little Japanese and the past 7 times when we have driven in Honshu and Kyushu, NO ENGLISH GPS was available from ANY rental company (in fact I think GPS is only available in Hokkaido). Bottom lineis if this is going to be your first time driving in Japanese, then Japanese GPS will be less stressful but otherwise no big deal. In fact if anything, as Connie Chiwa says, the Japanese GPS is better because its database is more comprehensive and gets updated more frequently (how do I know that, it will be another whole chapter, just trust me here). You should be aware that ENGLISH GPS means only the speech is in English, the interactive display remains in Japanese but it is so easy to understand that I wouldn't worry about this.
As for ETC card, some companies provide it as others don't. Toyota Poplar (note there are 2 different Toyota franchises at Chitose, I forget the full name of the other company) did provide us with an ETC card free. It is IMPORTANT to have this depending on your route. For example a large part of the expressway from Sapporo to Pippu inter (just past Asahikawa) is actually free, or was in July, but ONLY to ETC holders !!! Anyway, if the rental company provides the ETC free, there is no downside.
How easy or difficult is it to drive with GPS ? Well IMO it is ALWAYS easier WITH than without GPS, whether it be in Europe, USA, Australia or NZ which are the other countries I have had experience driving in. As for how easy or difficult is it to drive in Japan, IMO Hokkaido is among the easiest place to start in Japan. Drving through metropolitan Tokyo or Osaka for instance is definitely NOT recommended for first timers.
As for your itinerary, I would add an extra day in Sapporo to take in Otaru, they have some fab sashimi there, even overnight in Otaru if you are feeling romantic as the weather will be getting cool by then. I would cut out the whole Kushiro/shiretoko area because it is mostly local roads and do that whole region as a separate trip. Make use of the expressway this time from Noboribetsu up to Asakikawa (check out Asahiyama zoo + visit a local sake brewery there), then drive down from Biei to Furano, most of the flowers would be gone but there are still plenty else worth seeing/doing. Finally, Marukoma onsen I suggested above is really worth it.
Good luck and I believe you will come away glad that you chose to drive and eager to get back to a driving holiday in Japan. We recommended driving to our friends years ago, then finally one couple took it up 2 yrs ago and after their first driving trip, they went back to Japan 3 times within that year.
by mthk (guest) rate this post as useful

A Different Experience in Hokkaido 2010/9/18 14:26
Hi mthk,

This will be my 2nd visit to Hokkaido. My first trip there was in 2005 and the itinerary was confined pretty much to the JR rail line because my partner and I bought the JR pass to tour Japan.

That experience was good but I realise that there are a number of places that simply were out of reach or not feasible to slot into my itinerary without my own wheels.

I am very encouraged by your driving experience in Hokkaido and will rent a car with Japanese GPS. Sounds like an adventure in itself but I will relish that :p Though this will be my first time driving in Japan, I am glad that I will not be driving in the big cities most of the time. In any event, I have driven on most of my other vacations in Australia, US and EU. Hence, I am keeping my fingers crossed for this trip.

That said, I will definitely heed your advice on keeping to speed limits because of speed traps and police radars.

Having heard from both you and Uji-san, I am making some tweaks to my itinerary. Here's the revised version:-

Day 1: Tokyo to Sapporo - overnight in Sapporo (Cross Hotel)
Day 2: Day trip to Otaru (using Sapporo-Otaru Welcome Pass) - overnight in Sapporo (Cross Hotel)
Day 3: Pick up car from Sapporo station and drive to Lake Toya - overnight in Lake Toya (Lake Toya Park Hotel Tensyo)
Day 4: Lake Toya to Lake Shikotsu to Rera Outlets - overnight in Chitose (ANA Chitose)
Day 5: Chitose to Lake Akan
Day 6: Lake Akan to Lake Kussharo to Utoro - overnight in Utoro
Day 7: Explore Shiretoko (cruise plus 5 Lakes footpath) - overnight in Abarishi
Day 8: Abarishi to Sounkyo - overnight in Sounkyo
Day 9: Sounkyo to Asahidake - overnight in Asahidake
Day 10: Asahidake to Furano - overnight in Furano
Day 11: Furono to Chitose Airport (car drop off) - back to Tokyo (via flight at 12.30pm)

Most of the places were chosen based on the fact that I have not covered those places on my first trip. I covered Hakodate, Sapporo, Furano, Bibaushi, Biei, Asahidake on my first trip.

I pretty much hope to see the lakes and the autumn foilage this time round. Hope the itinerary makes sense. More than happy to receive feedback.

One more thing: I am not able to locate information on cruises to Cape Shiretoko. Some websites appear to suggest that the cruise stops 30 Sep :( I will only be there on 5 Oct - ARRGHH!
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

, 2010/9/18 20:14
Hi, I think your speed trap answer is taken care of.
We hired a car in Hokkaido and thought we had ETC installed but... the first toll gate we tried to go through, we discovered rather dramatically that we didn't when the boom gate came down suddenly in front of us. Make sure you ask the car hire place if you have ETC. I am thinking that the car has the capability (our second car kept asking us to insert the ETC cardo when we started up) but if you don't have a card to put in, then you need to pay the tolls as you go through. Mostly you take a card as you enter the tollway and then hand it in as you leave and pay the toll then... only problem you don't actually know what you will be up for until you exit - or we didn't anyway.
Re the English GPS versus Japanese. We had one car with English language speaking and Japanese settings and one completely Japanese. Actually the second one was a much better GPS showing the roads really clearly and once we knew how to set it for where we were going using phone numbers (make sure you always get these for your destination) or map codes it was really easy (and I even learned a little bit of Japanese from it).
hope that helps....
by Connie Chiwa (guest) rate this post as useful

some thoughts 2010/9/18 22:09
The following company has one morning cruise to Cape Shiretoko until Oct 12.
http://kamuiwakka.jp/cruising/course.php
According to their Oct schedule, there is a 9.30 sailing on Oct 5 but it still depends on the weather condition. You can keep monitor their webpage to update the situation when it comes the day of travel.
http://kamuiwakka.jp/cruising/schedule.php?date=2010/10

En-route from Kussharo-ko to Utoro, Iou-san is worth a look and do not miss out beautiful Mashu-ko. If there is still daylight, also stop by Kaminokoike Pond which reflects amazing blue colour under the sun.

On your way to Utoro (or coming back down from Utoro to Abashiri) stop by beautiful Oshinkoshin Falls. Your time of visit is also good for seeing salmon swimming upstream at Onnebetsu Bridge.

Since you are staying a night in Abashiri, try to go for its small yet interesting fish market known as Abashiri Kando Morning Fair which is opened daily from 6.30-9.30. You can try out the popular local oysters which are brought in fresh everyday.

Ideally allow time in Abashiri to do a side trip to Lake Notoro. From Sept to Oct, glassworts there turn reddish brown making the whole area look like a giant red carpet and should be quite a sight to see.

From Abashiri to Sounkyo you can stop by 1 of the 2 fox farms along the way. Kita Kitsune Nortern Fox Village is closer to Abashiri while Hokkaido Kitsune Mura is closer to Sounkyo.

Asahikawa is not mentioned but it is worth visiting, esp. for the ramen experience in Ramen Mura. My wife says she has eaten the best ramen in Hokkaido there.

Since you are leaving around noon on the final day, you can easily do Rera Outlet on that morning without allocating special time for it on Day 4. We checked in early at New Chitose Airport, take a free shuttle to the outlet, do some shopping and have an early lunch there before returning to the airport for a noon departure flight.
by William5 rate this post as useful

ETC & Abashiri 2010/9/19 02:40
Hi Connie Chiwa, I have just received an email from Toyota Rental that it can loan me an ETC card but I will need to collect and return the ETC card from the same location. My initial plan was to pick up the car from Sapporo and return at Chitose airport. This news obviously throws a spanner in my itinerary. Did you face the same restriction when you rented a car?

I'm sorry to hear of that incident at the ETC toll gate. I sure hope I won't have that same experience :)

Hi William, thank you for those tips on Lake Notoro, Lake Mashu and Fox Farm (kawai ne). Luckily for me, those places that you have mentioned can be fitted into my drive rather easily.

You are right that I wasn't planning to spend much time in Asahikawa itself. I am more keen to take the ropeway at Asahidake and ascend Asahidake. Would love to explore some altitude after visiting various caldera lakes in Hokkaido.

Thank you for the weblinks to the Fox Farm and KCT (for Cape Shiretoko cruise). Now that I have a better idea of what each place offers, I will go through my travel itinerary once more to fine tune it!
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

, 2010/9/19 07:53
Jonathon, forget about the ETC card. It is easier to take a ticket before the IC and just pay at the end - they are very kind and patient with you. What happened was, my partner said all was ok with ETC and when we tried, the boom came down fast and with all 4 tyres smoking we stopped a few inches from it going through the windshield!!
Average is about 40kph on roads but guys do 140kph on expressways!
by Connie Chiwa (guest) rate this post as useful

... 2010/9/19 10:04
It is easier to take a ticket before the IC and just pay at the end - they are very kind and patient with you.

The main reason for using an ETC are the discounts, which you do not qualify without ETC. But lots of expressways on Hokkaido are toll free these days, and the discounts might not pay off with respect to the cost of getting an ETC card.

Average is about 40kph on roads but guys do 140kph on expressways!

I am not sure what you are trying to say. The speed limits in Hokkaido (and most of the rest of Japan) are 40 km/h on narrow streets, 50 km/h on broader streets and 60 km/h on broad, straight countryside streets. But people typically drive 10-20 km/h above the speed limit.

On expressways, the speed limit is 100 km/h on straight, flat double lane expressways, 80 km/h on not so straight, not so flat double lane expressways and 70 km/h on single lane expressways. Again, people typically 10-30 km/h above the speed limits. But 140 km/h is very rare and comes with a relatively high risk of troubles.
by Uji rate this post as useful

Driving with Conscience 2010/9/19 12:58
Hi Connie Chiwa & William,

Regardless of where one drives, I am certain that we are all in agreement that one needs to observe the law and drive safely :)

From Abashiri to Sounkyo, I will stop by the Kita-kitsune Fox Farm. I am still a little puzzled by the roads to Sounkyo. Will I be able to explore the tourist sights (eg, the waterfalls) before driving to the onsen village at Sounkyo? That seems most logical but I don't understand the roads.

There are ropeways to Kurodake from Sounkyo and to Asahidake from Asahidake Onsen. Which is better? I know it will be freezing to ascent but would like to try it nonetheless, unless you advise strongly against it.
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

... 2010/9/19 16:25
Will I be able to explore the tourist sights (eg, the waterfalls) before driving to the onsen village at Sounkyo?

The waterfalls are a few minutes drive east of the town:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Japan&ll=43.724964,142.96414...

There are ropeways to Kurodake from Sounkyo and to Asahidake from Asahidake Onsen. Which is better?

Kurodake Ropeways has the more spectacular views from the ropeway. Asahidake has the better walking trails for beginners at its upper station. Both ropeways have great hiking trails for more serious hiking at their upper stations (no hiking after snow falls in late September).
by Uji rate this post as useful

.... 2010/9/19 20:18
Re ETC card, our rental company showed us the ETC card and then slotted it into the card holder, thereafter the ETC card worked fine. Perhaps Japan residents have their own ETC cards and some rental companies only provide the card holder but not the actual ETC card itself, I am only guessing here.
by mthk (guest) rate this post as useful

ETC Card 2010/9/20 01:56
Hi mthk & Uji-san,

Thank you for the pointers :) I think the drive from Abashiri to Sounkyo is straight forward - one expressway :)

As for the ETC card, if Toyota insists that the loaned ETC card needs to be returned to the same rental branch, I will probably do without the ETC card. If so, am I right that toll charges will have to be paid in cash at non-ETC gantries?

I am having problems booking accommodation because a lot of the hotels' direct websites require me to enroll as member which in turn requires a local address. Not sure what should I do - should I call the hotel direct to make a booking or drop them an email? Examples of hotels which I encountered that problem include Lake Toya Park Hotel Tensho and Hotel Grand Shiretoko.
by Jonathan Tan (guest) rate this post as useful

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