Does "real" Goth exist in Japan?

I know there's Punk, Metal and the visual-kei spin-off Gothic Lolita but does real Goth exist in Japan?

I don't mean angst filled teenagers listening to Marilyn Manson and other metal bands but instead real Goth. This being back-combed hair, Bauhaus, Siouxsie & the Banshees and general politeness.

Goth is now very underground in most countries, even in the UK, so is it underground in Japan too?

Underground? Bauhaus and Siouxsie & the Banshees are more like "ancient." They were the main thing in my youth and I'm 50. Can you give us a more updated example? I mean, of course, fans are still there but they try to live in the present just like all of us.

Well that's the problem. All Goths share a love for the oldies no matter where on earth they live, such as the given examples however, UK underground bands don't seem to tour any further than Germany.

Modern examples such as Grooving in Green, The Ghost of Lemora, The Last Cry and Angels of Liberty probably wouldn't get much of a look in over in the East. However, that's not to say they don't have their own modern underground bands, DJ's and clubs?

This is interesting.I am looking forward for more information.

Well, the thing is, bands like Bauhaus and Siouxsie & the Banshees are genuinely European, don't you think? The former being very German and the latter being very London-er.

And in Japan, you have the Japanese verson of Goth. I don't mean the Lori and Visual. There always was Japanese Goth way before there was the so-called Visual-kei. There was a more David Bowie/T. Rex influenced population, mainly based around Shibuya and some went on to The Cure, Television, Lou Reed kind of style.

Of course, these people never toured around the world, because their records won't sell. I guess some may call that "underground" since they're not actually "main stream."

But I notice that June (with an accent on the "e") of the band Auto-mod which was big in the 80s Tokyo club gig scene still runs a website;
http://genet.jugem.jp/?cid=5

Perhaps my question is just another question of West versus the East. Looking at the band and even listening to them,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjJTVNQnhJQ

I wouldn't quite put them down as Goth but perhaps that's because I know Goth as the European/American Goth.

But as you say, if there was an underground scene for David Bowie/ The Cure fans then perhaps there was and still is an Asian version of Goth.

I will simply have to wait until I actually visit Tokyo and crawl through there clubs to find a trace of this fabled sub-culture.

Still though Uco, I appreciate your input it has been most helpful.

I always though that real Goths were the German tribes that invaded the rest of Europe around the time of the fall of the Roman Empire.. like the Visigoths, Ostrogoths etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

Bet their war music was awesome!

I'm sorry but I have to say that I've grown so tired of that joke.

Goth is now very underground in most countries, even in the UK, so is it underground in Japan too?

If by underground, you mean not mainstream, then yes, "real" goth is very much underground in Japan.

Then again, I'm not sure the point of the question. Are you asking if there are fans of old European goth bands in Japan? Certainly there are since Japan has enthusiasts for every type of musical genre no matter how obscure.

Or perhaps you're looking for Japanese bands with similar styles? Or for places where you can meet people with similar interests?

Bet their war music was awesome!

BTW, best Monkey See post ever! Admittedly I've never heard that joke before, so it had me laughing out loud.

Not just the music but the Goth sub-culture as a whole. These days Goth has become so incredibly diverse it's difficult to identify what isn't and what is Goth. However, studying bands such as Dir En Grey, Moi Dix Mois and every other Japanese band that people claim to be Goth simply aren't.

And without bands to support the scene then how could it exist?

Sorry but it wasn't a joke for me. I like history, grew up in a country were the real historical Goths lived for a while and am sick and tired of people that abuse the name Goth without having any idea of its meaning.

They don't even DRESS like Goths (now THAT would be interesting) and wear platform shoes imitating those that the first UK punks and Rocks musicians wore in the 60s and 70s.

The term Goth was and is used for many, many different things. Did Gothic literature rip off the Goths? Perhaps however, my friend I think you should read the wikipedia article on Goth (subculture) before unjustly complaining about it. If you had read the article you'd have learnt that the name Goth was coined because of the music.

The music came first as it is with most sub-cultures, the sub-culture was fittingly named so for its association with the music genre Goth Rock.

Now did the music genre rip off the Goths? No, the music was named so because its themes
were similar to that of the literature style known as Gothic literature.

Going further back, before the literature style there was the architectural style named Gothic.

Also Punk was already a word before Punks existed so did they rip off the person who first used the word "Punk"?

Also in response to your comment about people abusing the name without knowing its meaning, most Goths know who the "Goths" were which is ironic really because you only seem to know of Goth as a group of barbarians rather than all its other meanings.

In all honesty this is a stupid argument but I thought it was best you were informed.


Now would you kindly prevent yourself from further de-railing this thread?

Thank you.

I agree with Monkey See 100%.

Especially when one asks about "real Goths" in the title, one would assume he is talking about people descending from the Gothic tribes. There is nothing "real goth" in the music culture that uses the name now days.

Monkey See and Kodama has a point in relation to this thread.

I've been a rock-related music fan since the early 70s and in the Siouxsie & the Banshees era was a Japanese teenager occasionally visiting London, and we never called them "Goth." I don't think I was truly aware of that term as music until the 90s or so.

Sure enough Japanese Wikipedia says that they are a "punk, new wave band" (which certainly rings a bell for me) and that "nowadays" they are often referred to as the first "Gothic rock" artist due to their sound and fashion.

What I'm trying to say is that if the OP comes to Japan (or perhaps to a lot of other countries) asking around for "Goth," he may not find what he wants. Instead he should discribe specifically in artists' names or show sounds and footage.

By the way, in the 80s techno days bands used to play hard rock songs only with keyboard sequences so that they'd sound techno. Genre really means nothing except that they sometimes attract those who prefer to talk in terms.

I too enjoy the original Goth music of the 80's, or Old School goth (a subset of which is Deathrock).

Out of the various goth clubs in Tokyo, I would say Club Walpurgis is probably the truest to that culture. The others such as Tokyo Dark Castle and Midnight Mess, whilst playing older school stuff, also play more ebm/industrial music, & have acts that vary widely in style. Tokyo Dark Castle is Genet's club (someone mentioned him above).

The DJ Naohiro from deathrock band 13th Moon, only plays old school, deathrock and post-punk in his sets, so look out for him DJing & IMO you know it'll be the sound you like.

Thank you Leanne, your post was exactly what I was looking for.

apart from the clubs mentioned above are there any other places? i couldnt find any on the internet and really would apreciate to get to see the tokyo goth/dark scene ^-^