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Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/24 23:56
Seriously, why are there so many crazy, life threatening bicyclists in Japan? I have been to cities like Osaka, Kyoto, etc where you practically have to jump into the bushes not to be overrun by bicycles. It is totally crazy, they just go through all masses of people who are almost overrun by these madmen/madladies.

What is their problem? I thought many people driving cars where dangerous driving but the bicycles are even worse. What happened to the idea of being nice and courteous?
by Gefor Maskeid (guest)  

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/25 14:11
Cyclists in Japan are notoriously ignorant about traffic rules or choose to ignore them. And until recently, the police has done virtually nothing to change the situation or enforce the rules.

However, overall I don't think the situation with dangerous cyclists is very different to Western countries where cyclists notoriously ignore traffic lights and other traffic rules. The only major difference is that Japanese cyclists often use the walkways where conflicts arise with pedestrians. In some cases cyclists are allowed to use walkways in Japan; however, they often ignore the rule that they should be giving priority to pedestrians when on a walkway, especially when the walkway is crowded. A lot of cyclists are simply bad mannered. And I think the lack of law enforcement is the main cause for this bad state of affairs. Such behavior has been tolerated over decades. Only in recent years, the situation seems to have started slightly with police starting to enforce some of the rules sporadically.

Sometimes the infrastructure has to be partially blamed. Only recently have cities started to build adequate infrastructure for cyclists. And sometimes it is simply not possible due to the lack of space.

As for dangerous car drivers, I think there are generally fewer in Japan than in Western countries, especially with regards to road rage. Of course, if you come from outside of Japan, you will naturally not be used to some of the local bad habits and notice them in particular. But once you acclimatize and get a more balanced view of the situation, I think you will agree that Japanese drivers are overall relatively safe and courteous.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same about cyclists.
by Uji rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/25 16:45
I've noticed nothing different in flat cities in Japan to flat cities back home.
Except pedestrians tend to be a big more ignorant about cyclists and walk 5 astride on shared paths, clogging up any space for cylists to get past.
by takeda's ghost (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/25 17:05
I agree with Uji, as well as the OP, but to be fair, we don't get the chance to learn bicycle rules in Japan (as well as in many other countries), which is really weird, IMHO.

I myself didn't know a lot of important and basic bicycle rules until I started attending car driving classes (which are compulsary when obtaining driver's licences). And while I've never lived in Osaka, at least if you live in Greater Tokyo it's easy to spend your whole life without learning how to drive cars, therefore not learning bicycle rules.

You can buy or rent bicycles easily, and yet they don't give one leaflet explaining bicycle traffic manners. High schools teach students how to behave properly on buses, and grade school teach children how to walk safely, and no one teaches them how to ride bikes.

Sure, the rules are written all over the place only if you access to them. But they won't be delivered to you. I've written opinions to the police and nothing is done.

I'm not imagining things. A lot of my friends who can't drive don't know the proper place to ride your bike or the proper way to cross a street on your bike.

Now that it's a great season to ride bicycles, they come aiming at you from all different directions, even though there is a bicycle lane right there. Unfortunately, better bicycles are made, bicycles are becoming even more accessible, they save energy and money and they keep you fit.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/26 00:27
Its saddening this fact that cyclists behave like this, and you are right that it is not any better at home.
I thought it would be different here since people are usually careful and respect each other but it came as a shock when a lady almost ran over my foot as I had to throw myself into the wall to not get run over.

What should I do in case someone actually rammed me or ran over my foot? Shout "baka yarou!" seeing the bike disappearing in the crowd? I have never ran into any trouble of such kind, no fighting or bumping from persons so I am not sure whatever to do.

Aint any bikes have any bell to actually warn people they are appearing from behind? I hate the thing that people appear from nowhere, soundlessly, 2 inches from your arm. God, if I had swinged my arm out just a bit someone would be seriously hurt.

by Gefor Maskeid (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/26 01:32
What should I do in case someone actually rammed me or ran over my foot?

Seriously, that's a mobile accident. You can calmly stop the bicyclist by saying, "tomatte kudasai" and call 110 on your mobile phone anyway so that the police may come to you and let you file a report until you make sure you're not injured.

But I suppose most people do nothing but to shout "Hey!" as long as (s)he is pretty sure there aren't any bones broken. Even if there are potential injuries, one tend to forget to ask the other person's contact number if it's a bicycle accident and not a car/motorbike accident.

As for bells, though, (from what I learned at car driving school) you're basically not supposed to use them. The golden rule is that pedestrians come first, and the other big rule is that you're not supposed to make unnecessary noise. Anything with wheels, be it bicycles or cars, is supposed to wait patiently or patiently move over when a pedestrian is getting in the way at any place, even if it's in the middle of the traffic.

This also means that even if there is a necessity to warn the pedestrian, you should be moving slowly enough to be able to voice "sumimasen" instead of ringing bells from far behind. I used to ring bells all the time, but ever since I learned this, I even hardly use the horn when driving a car.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/26 16:55
I have to disagree a bit with Uco above. While people tend to avoid using their bells, it is just silly to weave around hoping that at some point the people in front of you will realise you are there and stop walking 3-4 abreast. If you ring your bell people almost always move to the side straight away, if you say a polite ''sumimasen'' as you pass what is the issue?
by RKU (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/26 17:56
RKU,

Sorry if my post was misleading. What I mean was this;

Say you were riding your bike on a bicycles-okay sidewalk or a road with no sidewalks and a pedestrian is walking in front of you.

You are supposed to either (A) ride slowly around the pedestrian so that the pedestrian won't be offended or (B) get off your bike and become a pedestrian yourself pushing your own bike. If you chose (B), you are free to either (1) push your bike around the pedestrian in front of you to get ahead or (2) you can keep walking behind that person or (3) you can say "sumimasen" and let the pedestrian move over.

There is no point in ringing your bell if you are that close to the pedestrian and that slow. Why ring the bell when you have a mouth to speak with? And bell sounds are considered as sounds that may scare people.

If you consider yourself as a rider on (bicycle) wheels, yes, it may sound silly, but if you consider yourself as another pedestrian it doesn't. Pedestrians come first, and those in front of you come first.

But yes, even if you had to ring the bell at some point, it will make a greatly better impression by saying "sumimasen" as you pass by. I do this a lot when I'm driving a car behind a pedestrian on a narrow road. With a car, you can't get close enough to not need your horn.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/27 10:22
I don't see any info about bicycle bells in the National Police handbook Rules of the Road, but it is clearly stated several times that pedestrians always have the right of way even if they are in the bicycle lane. If ever in doubt, bicyclists are directed to dismount and walk their bikes. In practice, however, no one follows these rules.

As an aside:

I agree with Uji, as well as the OP, but to be fair, we don't get the chance to learn bicycle rules in Japan (as well as in many other countries), which is really weird, IMHO.

Maybe its just my local school district, but the high schools and junior high schools in my region have an annual assembly devoted to bicycle safety and traffic rules. Some also show a bicycle version of Red Asphalt where every collision seems to end in a dramatic brain injury. Then again, many of the kids didn't really seem to be paying attention to the lectures (except for the parts of the video where the people fall off their bike in slow motion, cracking their skulls open on an inexplicably large rock in an otherwise clear road).
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Thanks 2013/5/27 12:59
yllwsmrf,

It's a great and entertaining way to start my afternoon reading your post! And it's good to know that education is making progress, at least in some ways!
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/27 14:46
Glad I could be of service ;)
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 07:07
One strange thing I noticed here, is that Japanese people consider the bicycles as a pedestrian and not as a vehicle, therefore engine vehicle drivers do not like to have them on the roads. Then most of bicyclist have low riding education, and they make problems for pedestrians. I do feel that the basic reason of this behavior is a lack of "courtesy driving rules /laws" between all kind of vehicles. If one lives here may see that a basic thing to stop with red light is most of the time broken by 2-4 cars as a rule; looking at this do you think possible to understand courtesy rules?
by Luca (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 10:52
One strange thing I noticed here, is that Japanese people consider the bicycles as a pedestrian and not as a vehicle

Bicycles are classified as vehicles, but like in many other bicycle heavy places they sort of skirt the line between vehicle and pedestrian, never really obeying the rules of either. Thats probably of a fault of cyclists in general, and a specifically a lack of enforcement of the rules by police (although they have recently gotten stricter).

If one lives here may see that a basic thing to stop with red light is most of the time broken by 2-4 cars as a rule; looking at this do you think possible to understand courtesy rules?

That is probably the one of the baddest habits of drivers in Japan, but I feel its more custom that lack of courtesy. More egregious (and not just confined to Japan) are the people who block an entire lane to answer a cell phone call. If you can pull over to answer your phone, you can pull over in such a way as to not cause a traffic jam behind you. Or just don't answer your phone.
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 12:04
Hello, why every time I post something is not sweet about Japan someone has to write something, as if I am writing not true JP stuffs?
I can tell that in 8 years all the gJapanese people I asked about it, they consider the bicycles with the same rights as a pedestrian and not as a vehicle,h even though they tell they have wheels. You are told they are like pedestrians, no plate, insurance, road tax etc. anything they like to answer; therefore bicycles easily invade small pedestrian pass, as well running on pedestrian crossovers at the intersections (where there are no additional bicycle crossing lane.) Then how they ride on the road is often very scary, and that is one reason I mounted a recording camera in case of incident.
Japanese often passing 2-4 cars with the red lightc gBut I feel it is more custom that lack of courtesyh I do feel is a traffic offence, and not a custom. By the way, I did not say this is a lack of courtesy, what I said is that, in my country there are "courtesy driving rules/lawsh and you can get a fine even for lack of courtesy against another driver. These are basic rules between vehicles, that I never heard to be in force in Japan; therefore to get out from a parking, be allowed to change the lane, pass one by one, allow someone to get away your vehicle from the middle of the road is quite bad. The worst is when you are perpendicular in the middle of the road in need to go backward to park, I cannot believe vehicles passing behind my car and the parking.
Therefore what I wanted to say was, if Japanese seems to do not understand basic courtesy rules, how they can understand the difference between gbad customsh, and traffic offences?

At the end talking at the phone while driving is another, nice JP "habit?"
by Luca (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 12:27
Hello, why every time I post something is not sweet about Japan someone has to write something, as if I am writing not true JP stuffs?

We don't comment because we think you are lying. But do expect comments about the reasons for your observations. That is what these forums are for after all.

I can tell that in 8 years all the gJapanese people I asked about it, they consider the bicycles with the same rights as a pedestrian and not as a vehicle,h even though they tell they have wheels.

Thats fine and all. The comment I made is that they are legally considered vehicles, even if they are not often considered as such. That is an important distinction so that those that read the thread don't mistake your comment.

Japanese often passing 2-4 cars with the red lightc gBut I feel it is more custom that lack of courtesyh I do feel is a traffic offence, and not a custom.

Yes, it is a traffic offense. But there are many laws that are customarily broken in different countries as they are not strictly enforced (speeding, talking on cell phones, distracted driving, etc.=). My opinion is that it falls under this category rather than people deliberately being rude to one another (although now I think it may be a little of both).

By the way, I did not say this is a lack of courtesy, what I said is that, in my country there are "courtesy driving rules/lawsh and you can get a fine even for lack of courtesy against another driver. These are basic rules between vehicles, that I never heard to be in force in Japan; therefore to get out from a parking, be allowed to change the lane, pass one by one, allow someone to get away your vehicle from the middle of the road is quite bad. The worst is when you are perpendicular in the middle of the road in need to go backward to park, I cannot believe vehicles passing behind my car and the parking.
Therefore what I wanted to say was, if Japanese seems to do not understand basic courtesy rules, how they can understand the difference between gbad customsh, and traffic offences?
At the end talking at the phone while driving is another, nice JP "habit?"


Sorry, I'm not fully following this. Are you railing against a lack or rules or a lack of enforcement of the rules?
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 12:45
Hello,
I do not know in your country, but in my country, we do have Road Coutesy Laws Articles, do you have?

E.g. if police see you being aware of a vehicle and you do not allow to change lane (often possible slowing down and let him passing,) or you do not allow a car to enter the parking while is in the middle of road moving backward, etc. etc. Police may fine you, and delete some driving points; even thought you are going slow or simply you do not move to make a smoth situation.

It may be translated Driving courtesy code...
by luca (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 13:19
Ohh, I forgot to ask you...

Why wou omitted to paste this part of my post?

Japanese often passing 2-4 cars with the red lightc gBut I feel it is more custom that lack of courtesyh I do feel is a traffic offence, and not a custom.

Regards.
by Luca (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 14:33
Sorry, can you clarify? I don't see where anything was omitted.
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 14:36
I do not know in your country, but in my country, we do have Road Coutesy Laws Articles, do you have?

Yes
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Why all these bicyclists? 2013/5/28 15:04
Hello,

if you do not understand this

But I feel it is more custom that lack of courtesyh I do feel is a """traffic offence,""" and not a custom.

your yes is a JP yes that may means "no" therefore there is nothing to discuss further.

Never I saw here, expecially regarding driving, something you can tell or compare, with true NORMAL Courtesy behaviour on roads and off roads.

Anyway Thank you to allow my posts here.

Luca
by Luca (guest) rate this post as useful

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