discrimination and what to do

Hi all,

Has anybody encountered discrimation issues in japan and has any recommendation about how to tackle it? I was at a bathhouse today, and while getting my key back, the lady murmurred something to me in japanese which I couldnt understand. I told her that sorry I couldnt understand in japanese ( that is the only japanese I know), and from what I hear back from her is something that spills the line of " if you dont know japanese why do you come to japan, you shouldnt be here", etc. ( my guess is that she hopes to tell me to be quicker in coming out as i came out a few minutes past the closing time.)

I didnt express my anger at the old lady but now, on looking back, this would never happen anywhere in the US, UK as this definitely constitutes discimination. Do any of you guys have any suggestions about how to deal with this? This is a local bathhouse that I had kept on going for for and hopes to go again. ( though really after this experience maybe I shouldnt consider going). Any insights on similar situations would be more than welcomed! Thanks so much!

this would never happen anywhere in the US, UK as this definitely constitutes discimination

You've probably never been Black or Hispanic in the US, or Middle-Eastern in the UK... And simply saying you shouldn't be here is almost certainly protected free speech in the US at the very least.

Sorry, white dude, you are not given special treatment everywhere.

hahaha, I am black and I am born in the US and I have to say not even I face something like that.

I'm guessing you've never experienced discrimination before. I live in the US and I've had to deal with it a couple of times throughout my life (I'm a Hispanic female).

I've only had to deal with it once while in Japan and it was when some guy at an onsen refused to let me or my homestay sister in to meet up with the rest of our family. I speak Japanese and he actually pretended that he couldn't understand me to try and get me to go away.

I confirmed with my homestay sister that I was saying everything correctly, and that he was the problem not me, so she ended up trying to reason with him. He tried to make up all of these random rules on why we couldn't go in but then my homestay grandmother came out into the main hall, found out what was going on, and proceeded to tell him how much of an ass he was being and swore to never give them business again which solved the problem.

Basically, the only thing you can do is stay calm and just ignore it if you can (I'll be shocked if any Japanese person ever tries to get physical with you). It's going to happen at some point while you're there. Japan is an island nation and it's still new to foreigners going over there. You just have to remember you're the minority and if you also don't speak the language there will people who are going to look down on you no matter how hard you try to fit in.

Sorry you had to deal with it but don't let it get to you and just move on. If anything, try to learn more Japanese because if you can speak it, you can gain some respect from a lot of older people there just by doing that.

Hope this has helped you in some way.

this would never happen anywhere in the US, UK as this definitely constitutes discimination.

To the contrary, this happens every single day in the US. But since you're white I guess you never noticed...

This is my take: she must have murmured initially "please come out a bit early, we have closed (I've been trying to close)," and hearing your words, she might have said the second one.

That was more an expression of inconvenience she felt (because you came out late, and on top of it she had difficulty communicating that to you), not for what you "are," so I would not consider that discrimination.

The same ...(guest) immediately above: and she must have murmured that thinking that you wouldn't understand it. Maybe it was just talking to herself. Her intention might have been something along the line of "oh if you come live in Japan without the language, it can be inconvenient like this..." Old folks mumbling about an unfamiliar situation.

I told her that sorry I couldnt understand in japanese ( that is the only japanese I know), and from what I hear back from her is something that spills the line of " if you dont know japanese why do you come to japan, you shouldnt be here", etc. ( my guess is that she hopes to tell me to be quicker in coming out as i came out a few minutes past the closing time.)

I'm confused. She responded back in English?

Japan is an island nation and it's still new to foreigners going over there.

I think the newness wore off ages ago. At this point I think people are just encountering the normal few jerks that you'll find in any culture.

this is not a discrimination.
OP is crazy.

I swear lately that half these posts are trolls. Never happen in the UK or US? you don't speak the language but understood her mutterings?

Yeah, I'm confused... how is it that you understood her comments when the only Japanese you know is how to say "I don't understand Japanese"? She could have been apologizing or saying her previous sentence a different way for all you know. You're just assuming she said that, and crying "discrimination" like the boy who cried wolf. Wait until you actually understand the language, then make claims like that.

this would never happen anywhere in the US, UK as this definitely constitutes discimination.

That has never happened to me in the US or UK, because I understand English, but it's happened to me in France, Spain and probably many other countries where I'm clueless about the local language.

I didn't see them as discrimination, because it's something I couldn't done to prevent it. I could've learned the local language and I could've prevented the things I did wrong (such as accidentally trying to pay with foreign currency). It was a great learning experience, and many of them were quite nice to me when I corrected my mistakes.

If a person says something about what you are born with and can't be changed, that'd discrimination.

Sorry for writing all about my own experiences. Please ignore them if they have nothing to do with you.

If she was annoyed that you lingered in the onsen past closing time (which means SHE has to stay longer before she can close up), I don't think it's fair to say that she was discriminating. There are people in every country who will get annoyed when someone rudely stays past closing time and saying "I don't know the language" will not always garner sympathy or special treatment. Sometimes it just makes things even more frustrating and annoying for the worker. She probably just wanted to go home.

The suggestions on how to avoid this situation are rather simple: Be aware of the time and leave BEFORE it closes, or go earlier in the day if you want to stay longer.

Perhaps you can bring a token of apology on your next visit and apologize for the previous visit's problems. Then you can judge if she's just being mean to you (not discriminatory, btw) or not and go from there. Something like green tea or something should do the trick.

I think she was only frustrated because you stayed a little pass closing time. I wouldn't say she's descriminative. I get a little upset too when customer stayed pass the closing time because I'm tired and I wanted to go home and rest.

Sorry to say it does happen in America. I've heard people making the same comment to a foreigners with limited English.

Me again. I just remembered that it did happen to me in the U.S. as well as the U.K. I'm a Japanese-looking Japanese, by the way.

For example, when I lived in the U.S. as a little girl, my mom was buying shoes for me and after I tried a pair on I almost took them off by pressing a shoe against the other instead of holding them with my hand. The elderly shop lady shouted, "Don't do that! Not at least until they're yours." She was alright when I started using my hands.

Same thing with UK. I did what a Japanese guide book told me that it was okay, and a local lady said, "No!" but she was alright with all the other things I did.

People sometimes tend to be too nice to foreigners, treating them as guests who need not know local rules. But it's nice that some are frank enough to tell you how to behave like one of them.

I myself once straightened out some American teenagers who weren't behaving well in the train here in Japan, and one kid said, "I've been living here for seven years and this is the first time I'm hearing this." Poor kiddo.

Like the other poster suggested, go again. And if the lady said you should learn Japanese, then tell her, "sen-jitsu wa osoku made sumimasen deshita." I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

I have been meaning to make a comment on here.

One thing I learned from a person while traveling in Japan is that Japanese people are not races it's just that they have a thing against foreigners. Foreigners have kind of a bad behavior and traveling to Japan where they have a more proper type respectful behavior so when foreigners travel to Japan they bring their bad behavior with them not adjusting themselves to Japanese custom, foreigners will be loud and being rude.

I'm black and I have to say I did once experience a racial slur from a guy in Japan. I do understand what frustratedGaijin Is saying. This person was a mid to late 20's. His dress style was a rock punk style with that odd hair style. It was in a small city/town while I was waiting for the train I saw a mall while walking around the train station waiting for the train to arrive so I thought I'd go check it out and do a little shopping and grab something to eat.

This is the first time I have talk about this on the web and the 3rd time speaking of this but never online.

The guy murmured something, he said it so I can hear it but at the same time I can't understand him. I almost stop and asked him "what did you say?" I had my fist balled up like I was ready to punch him, But I let it go and kept walking. I pull out my phone use the google translator and tried my best to repeat what he said. The translator kept saying "black". I tired different ways in saying and black came up more.

Wen I did have a Japanese pen pal we were talking about words and she said the word black face, black something. And I said to myself. That what he called me.

Like what "been there done that" said. I also experience a situation and Tokyo at a train station where I had my JR Pass wanted to cross through. At first I thought I was at a private train station but I know the station I was in was JR Rail. I had my pass out and visibly Clear where he can see and read it. The guy murmured something under his breath. After like 30 to 50 second he let me through. After ending up at the wrong side of the station I had to go back in to cross/walk by the guy again to let me cross over. I was about to just walk around the station but seeing how big the station was I suck it up and walk in. Surprisingly he let me walk through without any problems or saying anything but kinda give me a look.

Anyhow, i don't know what country your from but in the US depending what state you live in there is a lot of discrimination that happen.

I agree with the second dot dot dot person. I think your take if correct too.

One thing is that you did stay pass closing time. How long did you stay I don't know.
In America its normal to stay pass the closing time to finish up shopping or whatever your doing. but from my experience in Japan. When it's time to close you have to finish up and go before closing time.

Uco is correct "People sometimes tend to be too nice to foreigners, treating them as guests who need not know local rules. But it's nice that some are frank enough to tell you how to behave like one of them.
And I am happy that you Uco did straighten out those kids in Japan.

Dude, just let it go and the next time you go exit before closing time and yes maybe you should get a small nice gift to show your sorry.

One is going to run into people who don't agree with you or your being there. It's just the nature of being human. You can't get along with everyone.

Sometimes you guys have to get a thicker skin and let it go. Sure, some people may be racist and say something. Just shrug it off. It's not like you're likely to see that person again in your life.

If your first reaction is to clench your fist and think about slugging someone, I think the problem lies with you and not the other person. What they do is their karma, how you react is yours.

I think the person above me has clearly not experienced discrimination in his life...

It is unfortunate that discrimination is a common occurrence in Japan. Just recently, I moved house and was told I had to pay a 10,000 yen deposit to set up my gas. After speaking with a Japanese lady, she told me that the price is usually much lower. I've also come across estate agents and internet service providers that tend to faff about the price of things trying to charge ridiculous amounts when their website or what have you says something completely.

I don't think you need to put up with anything if you don't want to but as the Japanese are already so fearful of foreigners because of their preconceptions (and possibly even some genuine experience), all we can do is educate.

Sure, there are some foreigners that don't conform to the Japanese status quo but we need to show them that we're not all like that. There are Japanese people that fail to realise that even other Japanese are capable of misconduct but because we are different, we aren't often given much leeway.

All we can do is behave accordingly and it certainly helps being able to speak Japanese.

While I may not have had to deal with racial discrimination, I have had to deal with discrimination during my life and still do.

What happens to foreigners when it comes to raising rates and such could be attributed to past experiences with other foreigners and being leery of being ripped off by foreigners who just leave without saying a word (like what happened immediately following 3/11/11).

I've had many a comment said to me by people who don't know I speak another language and instead of saying something back, I give them time and then I pleasantly give my farewells in the language they've used, without accent. What almost always happens next is they turn white and walk away dumbfounded.

Discrimination comes in many ways, shapes and forms. Is it right? No. I've learned to deal with my discrimination the best way I can. You cannot change someone's perspective in one day, so I don't. The older I get, the less things bother me. And please don't make a comment about me since you don't know me or where I've walked. Thank you.