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Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/3 17:06
Yesterday my boyfriend and I went to the vet with 2 of our 3 cats. This vet is quite new to us (since I have only arrived with the cats a few months ago and hadn't needed a doctor yet), we only saw him once a few days ago.

In that occasion he visited our just adopted cat, which is really sweet and was very easy to visit.

The second time around I brought my older cats, who have had many visits in the past and are quite difficult to handle at the vet - which I told him (my boyfriend was translating).

Anyways, the vet's idea, without telling us, was try put the cat in a net. I found after this is quite common in Japan, but it's never heard of in Europe, so my cats are not used to it. He didn't try gentler ways first, not did he ask me. He just went for the net and by the time I realised what was happening the cat went crazy, flew through the room, scratched both me and the vet by running on us, peed all over, then went into the cage. I shouted to the vet NO NO, and started crying. I was shocked (this cat is a traumatised animal and took me 2 years so she could trust me).

After that, there was no chance of visiting again that cat, and I didn't trust the vet with the other one, which is even more difficult.

So I just wanted to leave. The cats were scared and they still needed to be visited, plus we had to figure out where else to go. My boyriend was listening to the doctor (I couldn't follow the conversation) and it went on for a while. At some point I basically said: "ok, thank you" and left. I wasn't being aggressive or slamming the door sort of attitude, but it seemed never ending and pointless to stay there talking at that point.

We went to the reception and they asked us for 1000 yen for consultation. My boyfriend was about to pay but I said no, that we wouldn't. I said in English but very clearly, the doctor came out so I said to him, sorry, big problem, we don't wan't to pay, He said ok and apologised many times.

My boyfriend seems to think I acted rudely, I wasn't considerate of the doctor's feelings, and I shouldn;t have panicked and cried.

To me what happened was really shocking, not to mention the trauma for the cats, and we should have never been asked to pay: we went in with 2 sick cats, left with 2 sick and traumatised cats and me with a bleeding hand. I know the doctor didn't mean it but he made a huge inexperienced mistake and even though I don't want to be rude, I don't feel like the priority was to be kind to him in that situation - more to get my cats out of there. I am sure in Europe many people would agree with me, but I saw from my boyfriend reaction that he thought I was really out of line. Did I really do something so rude?

by Brida  

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/3 19:54
Could it have been an option to get a vet who could visit you in your home, instead of taking the cats to the vet, so that at least the cats don't have to be removed from their own surroundings? (Some vets do that.) Some vets ask you, if they know how the cats behave at the vet, to put the cat in a net at home then bring him/her in IN the net IN the carry-bag/cage as well.

He should have asked you in advance if he could use a net, but even if you'd said no, then what else could he have done? If a vet is told that this cat is difficult to handle, then they can only proceed carefully and slowly, and some would, yes, use a net. He would somehow need to examine the cat. Whatever you might have suggested, it could have ended with the same results, if the cats' trauma is grave. I have been told by a vet once that (our cats are quiet at the clinic) the vet, trying to hold a pet, got bitten and scratched pretty badly, which he showed me.

In my view, panicking, shouting, and crying simply isn't good - the vets are professionals providing medical care for your pets, and getting emotional there simply does not help, and it even affects the cats - they feel your mood as well.

If all they asked was just 1,000 yen, I would have paid it for the attempt he made - it was you who decided to leave. The vet waived you the fee, knowing that that is the best he could do for a client who he knew would never come back. Or... maybe it was a case where he might have refused providing care to your cats (I have heard of cats acting so violent at the vet that the vet refused to give treatment) if you had not decided to leave when you did. Sorry, but this does happen.

I believe next time you need to come up with good tactics before you head to the vet, ask the vet if he could do whatever you suggest him to do (in advance, possibly over the phone first), or find a vet who can visit your cats in your home. I hope your cats find peace with some vet, and get treated properly soon :)

From a Japanese woman with European spouse, living in Tokyo with 2 cats :)
by AK rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/3 20:36
AK, thank you for your nice answer. Yes my cats are very difficult and unfortunately it's not easy for me to help the vet since I don't speak the language and have to rely on my boyfriend, who doesn't know this cat's for as long as me.
The net, honestly I had never heard of cats in a net before, I think my cats would freak out as much at home, I'm sure it works for others though.
As I am sure that the doctor didn't mean to make a mess. But he didn't look confident, and he didn't try and talk to the cat and see her reactions first.. I have been to many vets before (unfortunately), and the good ones always try nicely first, sometimes they manage sometimes they don't of course.. But he didn't handle it well.

My question is not so much cat related though, more about the limits of kindness... Since I have moved here I have learnt a lot about the positive value of kindness versus confrontation, and I have gone through a big change myself.
In this case though, the situation after the cat went crazy was highly uncomfortable for everybody involved, both me and the vet were bleeding, the cat was in the cage absolutely terrified, and we all knew that was the end of it. But my boyfriend still felt it was more important to protect the vet's feelings, while I wanted to protect my cat, and take her home. I was NOT aggressive, I just said ok thank you and opened the door.
The vet's well meant goofiness with the cat created a problem for me and my cats (scare, find a new vet, cure the cats), so I wonder should I have put kindness above all in this case too?
In Europe there is a strong mentality of "the customer first" and when we don't get good service or treatment for any reason it's ok to say. It's not expect that you are particularly kind in those situations... Is it here?
by Brida rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/3 21:40
Yes, of course the "customer first" mentality IS definitely here, I mean I believe it is stronger here than in the UK or continental Europe (to the extent I know). What I'm wondering is in your particular unfortunate case, if you've done your part as well, meaning, to convey well enough to the vet what he should do in view of the nature/trauma of the cat. I assume you have noticed that if a Japanese & a non-Japanese come, they tend to listen to the local (which we experience as a couple a LOT, believe me).

My sense is that probably your boyfriend said OK to the attempt with a net, who knows. that is why I mentioned at the end of my last post that you should come up with good tactics beforehand :)

Your words are that it was the vet's goofiness, but maybe the net approach worked with every cat he knew before. (The only thing he was stupid about (clearly) was not asking you what he planned to do, and ask you if that is OK.) And I am sorry to say but shouting and crying upsets everyone. So if you thought he was goofy, maybe he thought you were hysterical.

So I don't think it was a matter of putting "kindness" above anything, but it was matter of being matter-of-fact in the face of professional (though goofy) personnel who was doing what he knew. Maybe it was a lousy vet, I can't tell and I (or you) won't ever know, but shouting, crying, then saying thank you and just trying to leave without waiting to listen to the vet, no matter even if it was calm attitude, does not sound right, I feel. And to make it a calm exit, I feel that you should have paid for his attempt, quietly, without confrontation, and left it at that.

He did his best, to no avail and to everyone's (particularly the cat's) upset, which I feel sorry for, but you added to the discomfort too (by shouting and crying), so it's both ways, in a way; pay your dues, and leave quietly. No room for "kindness vs. confrontation" to come in.

I guess... I agree with your boyfriend you probably shouldn't have cried there, but the "not being considerate of vet's feelings" I don't agree with :) Maybe he didn't know how to express it better.

My European husband, who has spent many years in Japan, by the way, said that the vet should have told YOU (before he went with the net) what he proposed to do with your cat, and asked if it was OK, dumb vet. But a quiet exit, meaning paying, would have been better.
by AK rate this post as useful

"not fair"? 2015/2/3 23:57
Hi there.

I'm not sure if you can call that "rude", but perhaps your boyfriend meant it wasn't "fair". And if he is Japanese and used the word "rude", perhaps he meant to say "shitsurei" which can often be interpreted as "not fair" rather than "rude".

You say your boyfriend did most of the talking. Maybe as he talked, he had the impression that the vet was simply doing his job, explaining all he can (although it was after the net thing), and that it was his duty as a professional to ask for the fee at the end of the day.

You say that the vet "apologised many times" and finally waved the fee. That certainly sounds like you won over the battle at the end.

Maybe this question belongs to the "Love and Relationships" section that somehow disappeared.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/4 00:27
I'm European and can't really validate. You both kinda messed up...
by asahana (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/4 02:39
I have three cats and as I take them to vet, I think all vets in JP suggest put your cat in net and then carry in the cage. Then your cat won't move inside the cage. It's easy to handle.

I don't think it's a good manner not paying even though you have visited the vet which didn't meet your satisfaction. I think the vest lost more than 1000 yen if he/she took another pets if you didn't visit. I think you should pay 1000 yen even though it doesn't meet your satisfaction then never return. I think your BF feel a bit guilty on that if he is a vet there.
I think you can be sued if do the same thing in Europe.

The word of mouth is important to live in JP.
Make lots of friends in your neighborhood, then collect info related your life in JP. Internet info is limited supply, and all of them are true.
by tokyo friend 48 rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/4 13:20
Looks like everybody thinks I was out of line... Probably I was. As an explanation I can only say I am very protective of my very "special" cats, and I felt like I was powerless and couldn't understand and as a result the cat was harmed.
I haven't been here long and I often have this sense of dependency and powerlessness when something happens, I guess it's normal and will get better as I learn the language.
Thank you for helping me understand.


by Brida rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/4 14:31
you are an owner of the cat. your cat hurt the person. you are responsible for all results which your cat did.
you should have apologized first that your cat hurt that person.
by ken (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/4 15:58
I suggest you to go back to the vet and apologize + pay the small fee of 1000\.

Your vet might have done a mistake, but your cats also caused problems.

I'm also european, but I can't agree with your mentality of how things should have proceeded.

And in Japan customer service is way better than in Europe.

In Japan you can't just take off whenever things get tough. You will be seen as very immature. Crying or acting out won't help at all.

Moving to a new country isn't easy. Especially not when you're not too familiar with the language.
But please remember that the communication problems, or frustration due to cultural differences isn't one sided. I'm sure it hard for the counterparty as well.

by xhagakure (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/4 17:12
Definitely go back, apologize to the vet, pay the outstanding 1,000 yen bill (hardly a huge amount), and take a box of cookies for the vet and his staff.
by Cat lady (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/5 07:35
I agree with what the last posters said, please go back to apologize and pay the bill. After all, the vet did his very best and gave his time. This was clearly a "clash of two different cultures" and on top of that things got lost in translation or not translated at all. The vet must feel as bad about it as you do. You could even bring some home baked cookies or cookies from your country.
It's difficult to get used to such a totally different culture, so very different from western Europe. Hopefully your boyfriend can help you understand the different customs and different mindset. Maybe there is an international group you can join in your area? It can be very helpful to discuss these differences with others who find themselves in a similar situation.
Best of luck!
by Dutch Ann rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/6 23:54
this is not the cultural difference.
the OP is too selfish and childish.
other persons are not OP's servant.
pet is pet, not the OP's child.

the paying and the apology are the different.
the OP should apologize, but it might be OK, if the OP doesn't want to pay.
by ken (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/7 16:09
the OP should apologize, but it might be OK, if the OP doesn't want to pay.

Well, personally, I think it's the other way around. She can pay for the vet's time, but apologizing is another thing.

I just feel that the vet deserves a chance to solve the misunderstanding. The Japanese in general do believe that patients have every right to protect themselves, but at the same time doctors do seem to be hesitant to examine foreign patients, because there is in fact a lot of communication breakdown.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/7 20:57
Yes, you were rude.

Just picturing the scene with the doctor trying to deal with a panicked cat and a screaming, crying panicked foreigner at the same time in a small examination room makes me cringe.

As a general rule, if you find yourself shouting at someone, that is going to be considered rude.

If you are crying or otherwise acting hysterical about something less than a death or near-death incident, you are going to project a very poor image of yourself. A panicked cat during a vet exam does not rise to that level.

Saying "OK, thank you" and abruptly leaving while people are talking about a matter in which you are concerned is rude. People are not stupid and saying "thank you" does not fool them or smooth over the situation.

How do you know the vet did not mention he was going to use the net? If you are shouting "No!" and otherwise speaking to the doctor and staff in English, it does not sound like your Japanese is solid enough to be sure what the doctor said or did not say.

If your cats were so thoroughly traumatized before seeing the vet, I think it is just as incumbent on you as it is on him to make sure he is aware of your special concerns at the beginning of the exam.

Keep your emotions under control. Be prepared to accept that things might be done differently from how you expect them to be done in your country. Talk things out calmly. Appreciate that the doctor had a rough time, too.

Take some cues from how your boyfriend was responding to the situation.
by guest (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/8 00:38
Pets are pets, yes, but most pet owners are very attached to their pets and their pets are like family. For people who don't have pets that can be hard to understand. Netting a cat in order to treat him is not at all common practice in western Europe or the USA and it would have freaked me out too. The vet probably assumed that this is common practice allover the world and thought you were familiar with it?
I would try to find a vet who speaks at least some English. Don't know where you live, here is a link to a list with English speaking vets in Tokyo and one in Osaka http://catsinjapan.blogspot.com/p/english-speaking-vets.html
by Dutch Ann rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/8 19:51
My goodness, a net? Wow.

Anyway, I disagree with Ken partially. A pet isn't just a pet. I treated my dog as my own back home, which included, occasionally, doggy daycare and playtime with other dogs. My pet is a part of the family and treated as such. Same went for my cats when they were alive. I'm from the US, and for the vet we used, she always spoke in a kind voice to calm my cats and my dog while petting them to show that she didn't mean to do any harm.

We also had an adopted dog (before our cats) who was in a terrible traumatic situation before she was rescued (she feared men because of it), but at the vet, they would still try soothing her and being kind.

Ken, imo, Japan st isn't a pet owner.
by SSJ Jup81 rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/8 19:53
Oy...I hate autocorrect sometimes.

"Ken, imo, just isn't a pet owner"
by SSJ Jup81 rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/9 08:09
I am another European, had cats and dogs when I lived there, don't have any now, because I live in apartments.

The OP was just wrong. Never mind what we do in Europe and the USA!
In Rome...
I feel sorry for the boy friend and the cats.
by Red frog (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Adventures at the vet - was I rude? 2015/2/9 10:42
I think she should pay the vet and apologize for not initially paying, but not for reacting in a humanistic way. She was worried over the welfare of her cat. I can understand why she grew hysterical, as she should've been informed.

Seems a veterinarian would understand how to deal with a traumatized animal...unless I misread the opening post, he was informed of this. It just isn't logical, imo, to put a traumatized cat in a net. Seems logically the veterinarian would've asked the OP to hold the cat or pet the cat or something like that to relax it since the cat would obviously trust her. To me, this makes me think of doctors without any bedside manner.

Do Japanese veterinarians have a procedure or method in place for that type of situation or do they just treat all animals the same?
by SSJ Jup81 rate this post as useful

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