Sake and Beer

Hi all.. hope you don't mind for a topic on booze.

I'm quite an amateur for alcohol but I love Japanese beers with clean and smooth aftertaste. My maximum tolerance is usually a pint of 5.5% ABV, even though the 7% ABV Hitachino Red Rice Ale was still bearable.

I'd love to try sake but worried on getting tipsy, as I was usually travelling alone. Any tips on how a beginner should handle sake for the first time?

For beer, any recommendation for similar brews like Hitachino Pale Ale, Suntory Premium Malts, and Orion?

Thank you.

If you're worried about sake, there's a couple things you can try. One, order a small glass or bottle during dinner, so you eat as you drink. Often if you order the bottle with a screw cap, you can take it home, so you don't have to worry about drinking it all at once. Similarly, you could just buy a small bottle at a combini and try a little in your room at night to see where your tolerance is. And a caution, if you're drinking it at an izakaya-like establishment they often give you "service" when you order a glass by pouring it into the glass, then overfilling it into either a small bowl or a wooden box. So it can be easy to overindulge a bit because you get a bit more than you expect. So stick with one in that situation until you're sure you can handle it!

And re beer recs, I prefer light beers like Belgian-style wheat beers, so I'm probably not the best person to give you a recommendation, but I will say recently a lot of combini (especially Lawson) has upped their "craft" beer selections (i.e. not Sapporo, Kirin, Suntory, or Asahi beers) so just if you're looking for something to try you might be able to find something there.

Also, what areas will you be going to? There are some good regional breweries that people could recommend based on where you'll be.

I know this sounds odd, but why not just dilute it a bit with water (if it's the strength of alcohol that's bothering you?).

The taste will be slightly diluted, as will the mouthfeel, but it will still taste like the underlying drink.

Many drinks are actually brewed or distilled to a strength far stronger than that at which they are bottled and sold, and they are then diluted back to "sales strength" with water.

The level of alcohol itself will, if you're a super-connoisseur with amazing tastebuds, affect the "feel" of a drink in your mouth, but diluting a drink with a little water will still give you the vast majority of the taste experience.

Aooni is an interesting IPA from Nagano that's sold in dark blue cans in convenience stores, and it's worth a try if you can find it.

You can also find a few specialty craft beer retail shops, and ask them for advice - this site lists a few, depending on what cities you'll be visiting: http://beerbarsjapan.com/

As for sake, I will second the idea of buying a small bottle at a convenience store and trying it slowly. It's a bit stronger than wine in terms of alcohol content, and much weaker than hard liquors like vodka. Rather than dilute sake with water, order a glass of water on the side, and learn to take small sips.

Thanks all for the sharing.

Kyoto will be the base city for few days before returning to Tokyo and I would love to try some regional brewery. From the link given by Umami Dearest, looks like there are some bars near my hotel at Karasuma Oike! Worth trying!

Here in Singapore, there are some Japanese craft beers but I didn't enjoy bottled/canned beers as much as drafts. Even the same Pale Ale taste different. Maybe it's the ambience, maybe it's indeed different, but in Japan I mostly go for the taps (would LOVE to get Asahi Super Dry Extra Cold again!)

Except for beers, I'm not that particulars about new alcoholic drinks I tried. Compared to the bottled version, I would love to try sake at the dining establishment, expecting to have some recommendation of the sake-food pairing. Can I (or should I) mention that I'm beginner in sake when ordering?

@Umami: Will try that Aooni! Thanks for the recommendation.

Sorry for another silly question: can we order non-alcoholic drink in a bar? The tapas food looks good but my parents don't drink alcohol.

There are a few nice craft-beer bars in Kyoto with some good stuff on draft - I hope you find something you like.

Kyoto Brewery is a new brewery that's particularly good, and I'm sure you'll find their stuff in most Kyoto craft-beer bars.

If you're in an izakaya and you don't want to drink alcohol, you can order an oolong tea - that's the most common drink for non-drinkers. If you're in a cocktail bar or beer bar, there's usually something like ginger ale. Not everyone drinks alcohol, and some people are driving, so there's always an alternative.

Please, please do not pour water or anything else into your sake, or beer for that matter. That's like pouring water into your wine. Sake is not shochu. Water will simply ruin the taste.

Rather, use a "chaser." Order a glass of water or hot water (which are both usually free) and drink that as you drink your sake straight. So to clarify, eat, then drink a little bit of sake, and then a fair amount of water, and do that all over again. Even if you're drinking in your room, that would help prevent hangovers.

By the way, sake is usually served per "gou" �‡
1 gou is 180ml.

If you're in Tokyo, you've got a lot of choices for places with good beers on tap, including local ones. My favorite place right now is Devil Craft pizza, which features a lot of beers on tap both worldwide and from Japan. They tend to go heavy on the IPA's which I don't really like, but which it seems like you might. Also, their Hamamatsucho location, while not the original, tends to have more on tap.

I'm sure there are a lot of other beer bars in Tokyo people like, but since I live way out in the country, I tend to stick with what I know!

Uco - diluting wine is commonplace. Perhaps not in Japan, but definitely in other places. OP was saying that they have a tolerance for alcohol up to about 5.5%. If that's the primary concern, the only way they're going to taste a stronger drink and get any idea of that taste is going to be to dilute it.
Personally, if my aim was to not get drunk, and I had no problem with strong(er) alcohol (as I personally don't), I would do as you suggest. I'm just answering the OP and addressing their stated problem.

Have you tried other Hitachino beers? The white ale (5.5%) and weizen (5.5%) are delicious. They've got a brewery in Akihabara now too.

In terms of beer in Tokyo and surrounds, I'd suggest visiting:
* Baird taphouse (numerous locations but I always go to Harajuku)
* Popeye
* craft beer market
* the Asahi building, I think it's the 42nd storey.
* Yebisu museum (with beer to sample)
* Kirin beer village (Yokohama)
* ishikawa brewery (sake also)
* coedo beer, originating in Kawagoe

BeerinJapan.com is the most complete guide to craft beer bars. They also have a free iPhone and Android app with discounts.

http://beerinjapan.com/

If you like Sake, try Shinshu Sake Mura in Shimbashi. It's a Nagano prefecture shop with lots of sake tasting sets at good prices plus draught and bottled/canned craft beer. Since it's a prefecture shop, sake prices are cheap and bottle/can prices are basically the same as you would pay in a liquor store except you can drink in the standing area in the shop.

http://www.nagano-sake.com/vil/index.php
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.66624600000001,139.759467

Uco - diluting wine is commonplace. Perhaps not in Japan, but definitely in other places.

My goodness! You are right, Winter Visitor! The following Japanese websites confirm that, although it is not commonly known in Japan, both wine and sake can be diluted with plain water. My appologies.
http://textview.jp/post/cooking/15073
http://jp.sake-times.com/special/recommend/sake_g_seveneleven

Please don't mention it.

Many alcoholic drinks are actually brewed/distillers to a high strength (it saves space in the brewery for ciders and beers - with spirits the distillation process naturally leaves an alcohol content of over 50% ABV), and are then diluted down to retail strength with water.

We all think we know the taste of whisky, for example, but in general we know the taste of diluted whisky.

In the case of wine, the fermentation will generally be allowed to run its natural course and the wine yeast will be killed (or fermentation stopped using chemicals) at the "normal" wine strength of between 11-15% ABV. However, wine is commonly diluted with water or soda water (in the case of white wine),or even lemonade (think sangria) in order to lower the alcohol level.

Some styles of sake have alcohol added to the sale in order to change the taste and increase the strength.

I love traditional cider, but the amount of sugar in the apples means that it will naturally ferment to 8 or 9% ABV, so if it's a hot day and I want a pint rather than a small glass, I will dilute it with water. With strong beer, people drink it half and half with lemonade sometimes.

All of these methods will change the taste to some extent, but not to the extent that it's entirely lost.

Interesting discussion, folks. Thanks for all the advises, sorry that I couldn't reply one by one.

With exception of beer, I used to dilute high-alcohol drinks like Umeshu (or even Bailey's) with ice or water. As for diluted drinks, I really love Kaku High-ball and Chu-hai. Maybe because I have already acquired the taste of beer that I want to take in its original form. A little off topic, but some restaurants in Ho Chi Minh city even served weak beers with a glass of ice cubes. It completely taste like water (LOL).

As Winter Visitor mentioned, I don't take alcoholic drinks for the alcohol, but for its taste and refreshing sensation. There's something with Hitachino Pale Ale that makes it sweet albeit being a pale ale. As recommended by Sal1980, Hitachino white ale is more popular here in Singapore along with Yona Yona ale, but both doesn't taste right for me. By the way, the Hitachino brewery at Akihabara is a nice and cozy place, but can be very crowded at night. Craft Beer Market is also in my list to visit the next time I'm in Tokyo again.

Back to sake, once I tried sampling a cold, sweet sake at local Isetan which I like, but I'm not sure how usually people drink bottled sake, e.g. is it to be finished the entire bottle like how we take cider and beer, or to be enjoyed sip by sip? Can we keep leftover sake in the fridge, or is it meant to be finished?

There's a Hitachino brewery in Akihabara? Thanks for mentioning that. Might try to go...

Re keeping sake, it's a strong/fortified "wine" type of drink, so it has enough alcohol to allow it to be kept for a day or two without it spoiling considerably, if you really need to. Maybe look out for the small bottles (I think they're around 300ml, or maybe 350?).

but I'm not sure how usually people drink bottled sake, e.g. is it to be finished the entire bottle like how we take cider and beer, or to be enjoyed sip by sip? Can we keep leftover sake in the fridge, or is it meant to be finished?

I may be wrong again, but as a Japanese drinker, my understanding is that, at least commonly, sake bottles aren't expected to be emptied the way beer and cider bottles are. It's handled more like whiskey bottles.

Originally, sake was and still is served in barrels and 1.8L bottles. You aren't expected to empty that if you're drinking all alone.

On the other hand, at formal occasions, sake is served in a "tokkuri" container which is typically between 0.18 to 5.4L, and poured into a "sakazuki" cup which is as small as a shot glass. Unless you are drinking alone, it's polite to pour for the person you're drinking with.

Just as it is with shot glasses, it would look good if you can empty the glass either at once or sip by sip, since it is something served just for you. If you think you can't drink it, you should decline the offer in the first place, or you can request the amount to be adjusted when it is poured.

It would help the household if you can empty the tokkuri, too, because leftovers in a tokkuri is to be disposed. Drinkers commonly ask the amount of a tokkuri as they order, so that they would know what to expect.

Meanwhile, sake bottles always come with a lid you can neatly put back on, so whatever is leftover can be left with the lid on. As for storage, I think people simply keep it in a dark place in the kitchen instead of the fridge.

By the way, I think most people dilute umeshu with water or soda, not only because the alcohol is strong but rather because it's too sweat when drunk straight.

All this discussion is making me thirsty ;0)

It's a shame I'm at work ;0(

All this talk about beer, sake, umeshu makes me glad that I'm allowed to drink again (just gave birth on Monday) and that I'll be in Japan in June!

Here's info about Hitachino's Akihabara setup: http://beertengoku.com/2015/06/hitachino-brewing-lab-akihabara-tokyo/
We actually visited them at Mito (Ibaraki pref) in 2011 so I'm looking forward to checking out the Tokyo site.

Thanks Sal. Will check out the Hitachino info.
Cheers!

@Uco,
Thanks for sharing about sake serving. I learnt a lot :)
I really hope I can handle sake. Few days ago during a dinner with my housemates, I planned to buy sake but even sparkling sake still have 9% and mostly have 14-15%, which my housemates won't be able to take. Finally I took the 6% Korean rice wine, but because it's sweet and we take it little by little, I don't feel the punch at all. Hopefully it will be similar to sake.

Another curiousity is how to choose a sweet sake. There are articles explaining about some type of sake, e.g. unfiltered, junmai, etc. Once I sampled a nice, sweet sake, but didn't buy it. I wonder if it's sweet by nature or have added sugar.

@Sal & Winter Visitor:
The Hitachino at Akihabara area is relatively small. The seating area is very limited. I think they regularly change the variety on the taps.