Finalising itinerary

Hello everyone,

My wife and I are travelling to Japan in November this year and we are trying to finalise our itinerary. Currently we have the following:

Sat 9 Nov - arrive Tokyo
Sun 10 Nov - explore Tokyo
Mon 11 Nov - explore Tokyo
Tue 12 Nov - explore Tokyo / day trip to Fuji 5 Lakes area
Wed 13 Nov - travel to Takayama
Thu 14 Nov - travel to Kanazawa via Shirakawago
Fri 15 Nov - explore Kanazawa
Sat 16 Nov - TBC
Sun 17 Nov - TBC
Mon 18 Nov - TBC
Tue 19 Nov - TBC
Wed 20 Nov - TBC
Thu 21 Nov - Travel to Kyoto
Fri 22 Nov - explore Kyoto
Sat 23 Nov - explore Kyoto
Sun 24 Nov - Travel back to Tokyo

I have been going round in circles trying to decide the itinerary for those 5 TBC nights.

We definitely want to spend one of these nights at Mount Koya. Some of the other places we would like to visit are:

- Mount Koya - definite 1 night
- Nara
- Miyajima/Hiroshima
- Himeji Castle
- Kinosaki Onsen

I know we don't have enough time to see all of these. How would you arrange the itinerary to see a selection of these places in a way that isn't too rushed and gives enough time to visit the places chosen?

Many thanks!

Guido

Apologies - I forgot to say that we would also like to spend at least 1 night in Osaka. Perhaps this could be used as a base to travel to other areas (e.g. Mount Koya). Thanks!

Does Kyoto need to be at the end of your trip?

I am just thinking that maybe I would do Kanazawa - Kyoto, do all your Kyoto days, plus day trip to Nara and Osaka (for me there is no need to stay in Osaka if you are staying in Kyoto, you can do it as a day trip). Then once you are done with your Kyoto days, move on to Koya-san, stay a night, then next day go to Himeiji, and potentially move down in the evening to Hiroshima. Stay the night in Hiroshima and have next day in Miyajima. Maybe an other nigth in Hiroshima and have on your last day a long train ride from HIroshima back to Tokyo.

Obviously if you could get an open jaw ticket leaving from KIX, that would be better. Then I would do all the travelling after Kanazawa and finish in the Kyoto area.

But maybe you have a very good reason to have Kyoto right on those days.

Enjoy your trip to Japan!

Hi thanks for this suggestion, and I did consider it. The reason for having Kyoto at the end is I think it will be closer to peak time for Autumn Leaves in kyoto at that time, rather than earlier in November. Do you agree?

We are also keen to stay in Osaka to visit Dotonburi in the evening.

So it sounds like you would pick Miyajima/Hiroshima over Kinosaki? I ahve read that the Tori will be under scaffolding - does that impact your view at all?

Thanks!

I frankly haven�ft been to Kinosaki onsen, but it�fs harder to reach.

I also haven�ft seen autumn colors in Kyoto, but should be in time this year (at least in the higher parts???) as I�fll be working in Osaka in first half of November.

Rkold, an other regular on this forum hear first hand that CURRENTLY the scaffolding of the torii isn�ft a complete one.

I have simply been working off the list you gave and transportation wise it seemed best to drop Kinosaki onsen.

Kinosaki is quite cute and has a nice onsen town atmosphere. There are some nice ryokan there, and of course the public bath houses too. Depending on the time of year, there's great crab there too.
It's 2.5 hrs from Kyoto, so not a massive journey, and from there you could go to Amanohashidate, which is arguably an iconic view to rival Miyajima.

Two days in Tokyo isnt doing it justice.

Kinosaki is pretty but really I wouldnt go unless you are into public onsen. The hotel onsens dont have proper onsen water anyway. We stayed a few nights at Nishimuraya which was very special and all, but I've never thought to go back, whereas I would go back to a lot of other onsen towns. Overnight is plenty.

Kyoto will be ferally busy when you are there, but you probably know that already. Personally I would try to get to Takayama the day after arrival and stay 2 days. That is your best chance of getting nice colour there, Tokyo isnt going anywhere so you can see it on the way back. Then maybe try Okuhida (never been but sounds nice) and then on to Kanazawa.

I would go from Kanazawa to Hikone (not Hakone). Hikone is a pretty town with a nice castle. We stayed last time at the Castle View Resort which is very nice. Then on to Kyoto or Nara. i would stay 2 nights at Nara, really it is far less crowded than Kyoto and if you are there overnight it is almost empty. Early morning walks through the park are awesome. My family far prefers Nara to Kyoto.

@hakata14 - thank you, yes I agree Tokyo 2 days isn�ft enough. We have the first half day on the day we arrive and probably we will spend the third day in Tokyo too (instead of going to Fuji five lakes).

@Lazy Pious - thank you. I was planning on staying at Nishimuraya Honkan at Kinosaki as that ryokan looks wonderful. But it sounds like you don�ft think it�fs worth it even for that?

You said you would go back to a lot of other onsen towns - which ones in particular? I have looked at Okuhida which sounds interesting (though you say you haven�ft been) and also Kusatsu. Do you have any other onsen town suggestions near the route I am taking?

I will look into Hikone, thank you for the suggestion. I realise that Kyoto will be busy but it�fs my wife�fs first time (and my second time - and Kyoto was my favourite stop first time), so I think it�fs a bit of a must see place for us.


@ everyone - I would be grateful for any other comments and also thoughts on:
(i) is miyajima worth it even with the scaffolding on the torii?
(ii) is Nara really special and unmissable or will it feel like more temples on top of Kyoto?
(iii) is the Fuji five lakes area worth a night or better to stay elsewhere?
(iv) any other onsen towns to recommend?

Thanks!

You have 5 free days and 5 places you have short listed. I think that instead of adding to that list, you need to take away, to make it bearable.

Koya-san seems to be a must, so that already takes like 2 days out of your pool of 5. On the day you come back, you could do Osaka, and just have the nightlife in Osaka, which is probably the only interesting part about Osaka.

(ii) is Nara really special and unmissable or will it feel like more temples on top of Kyoto?
Is Nara special? Well, to me it is. But I am huge Nara prefecture fan. I like Nara city, but I even like Nara prefecture more.
https://bicycletraveljapan.blogspot.com/search/label/Nara
I think the benefit of Nara over Kyoto is that a good part of the city is still old, while Kyoto isn't. Kyoto as a whole is a big Japanese modern city, Nara is much smaller and has more conserved old quarters (it also has a lot of ugly modern parts), but Naramachi is very much like an old town. You even get an amazing number of old sento's right in the middle of the town, where you can wash away the fatigue of a day as a tourist.

But that said, my travelling position is different. Even when I go nowadays to Kyoto I don't go to any must see spots, but to minor places, which can be hugely enjoyable.


(iv) any other onsen towns to recommend?
It's not an onsen "town", but in your itinerary Okuhida would make a lot of sense as you are in Takayama anyway. I love rotenburo, so this was bliss for me. I stayed in one right by the bus stop:
https://bicycletraveljapan.blogspot.com/2017/10/day-31-hirayu-onsen-in...
But if it wouldn't have been raining (well, I was there BECAUSE it was raining) I would have explored a little bit further afield. But I was happy enough with the Hirayu no mori where I was staying.

Hi!

I'm a bit slower than usual responding to people because I keep passing out from jet lag. I've only just gotten back.

@LikeBike is correct, I met some other Americans while visiting Fushimi Inari and they said in mid June when they visited Miyajima the torii was not covered all the time. If I remember correctly, it's just covered during low tide. I can't speak for what it will be like in November.

After this last trip, I am so over Kyoto and so is my daughter lol I honestly wish I had spent more time in Kashihara so that we could have seen more temples. I might rent a car next time we go back since I now know driving in Japan is not that bad. I did not accomplish everything I wanted because it was quite hot and sunny and my child rebelled against the temperatures and just wanted to be in air conditioning. For rainy season, we only had rain one day, the day we left when we got soaked. I'm now a huge fan of all of Nara-ken.

Kyoto was very crowded when we were there and June is not considered a big season for Kyoto. Fushimi Inari was as crowded as a Disney park. I don't even want to talk about the disaster of the hydrangea festival at Yokokuji. You know it's bad when the Japanese just abandon the whole endeavour and get out of line.

Kashihara was only about 30 minutes from Osaka but felt so completely different. You can visit Dotonbori in the evening and still make it back to somewhere else, particularly since you're looking to go in November when the sun sets earlier. I hung out with a friend in Osaka until 22:00 and still easily made it back to Kyoto via Special Rapid.

I enjoyed both Himeji and Hikone though I've not overnighted at either. @LikeBike and I both enjoyed Hirayu no Mori in Hirayu, though she overnighted and I just day tripped from Takayama.

My personal two favorite onsen experiences have been in Hanamaki and Oyu, but neither is even remotely close to your current itinerary and trying to push either in would really detract from your current plans.

Hi, we stayed at Nishimuraya for 2 nights in each of the rooms with private baths. The rooms were probably in the top 5 of any we have stayed in, and the hotel itself is like something from a period movie (or an anime, lol). The food is absolutely spectacular, probably in the top 2 or 3 of any we have had. But really, unless you are into public onsens I dont think that the town has much to offer. I preferred Shuzenju (Izu), and Kusatsu is a lot more fun IMO and lively at night. And the hotels dont run onsen water, so it is virtually pointless bathing in them.


@ everyone - I would be grateful for any other comments and also thoughts on:
(i) is miyajima worth it even with the scaffolding on the torii? - I like Miyajima but I wouldnt go for the Tori which is disappointing and the shrine is nothing to write home about. I would go if I was going to Hiroshima, that's all. The seafood is great there. Grand Hotel Arimoto is a very nice place to stay.
(ii) is Nara really special and unmissable or will it feel like more temples on top of Kyoto? Nara craps on Kyoto IMO. It has a far different feel to it, I can spend a week in Nara and just relax. Kyoto on the other hand is overcrowded and concretey, with great stuff around the outside.
(iii) is the Fuji five lakes area worth a night or better to stay elsewhere? Not unless you are busting for a Fuji view. It is overpriced IMO. The hotdogs at the cafe next to the doll museum are worth a special trip, that would be the only reason I'd go back.
(iv) any other onsen towns to recommend? Bessho Onsen is nice. Karuizawa isnt really an onsen town though it has onsens, but it is an awesome trendy town. Kamikochi isnt an onsen town but the onsen hotel there has a great rotenburo, it is kind of on your way. I still like some of the towns in Hakone even though there seems to be a bit of dislike for them here. I recently stayed at Fukumiziro at Tonosawa (walking distance from Hakone Yumoto) and it was probably my favorite ryokan experience ever.

A couple of thoughts:

Kyoto-the last time we were there (cherry blossoms 2018, just passing through on the way to and from Nara and Uji) it was horribly crowded, particularly in the centre. We took a walk out past Sanjusangendo then turned down towards Shijo-Dori, and found some lovely temples and quiet streets. And an old stream/canal that was built by someone a long time ago and is now lined with cherry blossoms. Which appeased us a little. It will take some fast talking to get me back there. It must drive the locals mad.

I very much like Nara, it has the big Buddha and the park, some gardens, a museum and if you stay overnight is lovely in the early morning. We stayed by the JR station, which was a bit dull (though excellent ramen restaurant next door to the hotel). Next time I'd stay near the big Buddha. We also stopped at Uji-at the urging of a man we met on the train on the way to Nara-and it was quite lovely too. Part of me wants to move to Uji.

I also like Himeji, friends stayed there overnight and enjoyed it. Lake Biwa is very pretty, and Hikone Castle is a nice one to see. We stayed at a ryokan on the lake, I wasn't super-excited by it though.

Despite many trips to Japan I feel I haven't had the wonderful onsen experience yet. We stayed at a beautiful ryokan in Hagi-too far for you to go this trip-and I enjoyed the baths in Hokkaido. I generally choose hotels with a public bath because I like the soak after lots of travelling and walking, and the cultural experience, and people chat to me at the bath.

Have a wonderful time in Japan!