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Translate very old Japanese dialect 2007/12/22 09:11
I have a very old gun that has ingravings under the barrel. I think it may say the name and location of its owner, maker or whom it was made for. can anyone translate this? From what I have found out so far is its written in an old dialect that is close to Tia. I have perfect pictures but I can not attach them to this site. if anyone can try to translate I will send them to you, thanks anyone
by Steven Singley  

Pictures 2007/12/23 21:00
Steven,

If you want someone to help, I suggest posting your pictures on the web somewhere so people can see them.
by Dave in Saitama rate this post as useful

image 2007/12/23 22:40
you can use a free hosting service such as imageshack.us and then provide a link if this site does not allow attachments.
by bgalfond rate this post as useful

Sure it's not a Tanegashima? 2007/12/24 05:44
Tanegashima was an important center for firearms manufacturing in Japan in the early years of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Especially if it is an arquebus, musket, or other medieval European firearm, chances are that it was made in Tanegashima.

Also, hyjungo, as we know it today, did not exist back then, so whenever a product was marked, it was done in the dialect of the place of manufacture.
by ippatsu rate this post as useful

View Photos 2007/12/24 05:55
by Steve Singley rate this post as useful

was born in sakai 2007/12/24 09:23
This is information of same gun.
http://www.city.shinshiro.lg.jp/sitara/hinawa.html

(This sentence was written in Chinese writing.)
地鉄鍛二重惣巻張和泉住摂浪行平信家作

1.地鉄鍛二重惣巻張 made with double winding rough iron and forge.
2.和泉住摂浪行平信家作 made by Nobuie Taira(smith’s name),live in Senshu
(Senshu is old name of southern Osaka, perhaps he lived in Sakai city)

by made in sakai rate this post as useful

Correction and Addition 2007/12/24 18:08
Sorry about rough explanation and bad English. I would like to do some correction and addition.

1. Chinese writing漢文 is formal writing form in old Japan. This sentence is something Japanesque.
2. Translation
地鉄鍛二重惣巻張 (this is description of barrel manufacturing method)
2-1 地鉄 rough steel (plate?)
2-2 鍛 forge
2-3 二重 double(pile 2 plates?)
2-4 惣 all
2-5巻張 wind
※ (Manu factual method of barrel is) wind ruff steal double all (barrel), and fog

和泉住摂浪行平信家作(This is description of maker=smith)
2-6 和泉 Izumi (old name of southern part of Osaka prefecture)
2-7 住 live
2-8 摂浪行 ? (Sorry, I can’t understand this word)
2-9 平 Taira (His courtesy family name, doesn’t use usually. He is descendant of old clan Heike平家).
2-10 信家 Nobuie (His first name)
2-11 作 make
※ made by Taira-no- Nobuie(as摂浪行?) live in Izumi.

3. about sister gun in Shishiro city
It is treated as important cultural asset of the city.
4. When these guns were made?
Made on Edo era. I don’t know detail, and Shinshiro city’s site too.
5. Sakai city?
Sakai city is famous as manufactory district of guns on Edo era. (The city is in Izumi)

Sakai city is my home town. My old home was near by smith’s area. But sadly, nowadays they are making kitchen knife. I am glad to have a new understanding of Sakai’s past glory.
by was born in Sakai rate this post as useful

... 2007/12/24 18:14
I think this line should be broken up as follows:

和泉 住 摂浪 行平信家 作
The name of person is Nobuie Yukihira 行平信家, of 摂浪 (sorry I cannot place this one either), who lives in Izumi (Osaka).
by AK rate this post as useful

This one, isn't it?? 2007/12/25 17:12
by crouton1 rate this post as useful

To cronton1. Yes, it’s site, but 2007/12/25 20:44
My speculation owed to its site (please look first answer post). I think Shinshiro’s gun was made by same smith.
But, I read his name as 平信家. Shinshiro city and AK read 行平信家.
I reflect on my over romantic view. (But it is common that sword smith use courtesy family name : ex 源 藤原)
And the word 摂浪or 摂浪行 is big question. About this word, Shinshiro city doesn’t explain too.

How do you consider about these questions?

by was born in Sakai rate this post as useful

. 2007/12/26 07:54
摂浪 is his rank. I don't know what it is exactly, but i guess he is a samurai turned to a craft man? People in this era always made their rank known, right? For example, I'm Steve, a farmer from Osaka.
by Tokyonet rate this post as useful

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