How is the drive from Kyoto to Koya san?

We think we would like to rent a car to drive from Kyoto to Koya san--stopping in Nara along the way and visiting ise shrines on the way back. The advice seems to be do not drive in Japan--but looking on a map, it makes the most sense. Has anyone done this drive--how difficult is it and how long did it take,tolls? Also what car rental company should we use in Kyoto (size of car to request). We do have experience driving in foreign countries. Thanks.

Driving is in Japan's countryside is a great way to get around. You should encounter little problems to get around if you get a good map. I recommend the following order:

Kyoto - (via Osaka) - Koyasan - Nara - Ise

There are no expressways between Osaka and Koyasan and between Koyasan and Nara, and driving times will be long.

It is true that driving in the countryside in Japan can be fine. But the Kyoto-Koya corridor isn't the finest bit, in my experience.

From Kyoto Minami interchange until well south of Osaka is a vision of hell, especially as you get closer to Osaka and must make rapid decisions about turn-offs onto branches of the expressway system. It is like a video game with actual risks - tight sudden corners, fully wall-enclosed lanes and a scramble of high speed neighbours, to say nothing of mystifying tolls.

And that is using a GPS ('CarNavi')!

I am not saying a definite 'don't', but absolutely do not recommend it at evening or night time.

Going via the Nara side of the Kongo-Ikoma mountain range would take longer but is significantly calmer. Not beautiful, though. The expressway is not a beautiful place, anywhere in Japan. Especially if the weather is overcast.

You only really hit countryside south of Hashimoto. You do get classic winding mountain roads but they are either very narrow or in the process of becoming nature- and history-destroying bypasses. And there is way too much truck traffic, barrelling along at top speed and belching blue smoke.

The hill towns, which look like they must once have been as pretty and bucolic as Himalayan towns are now ghost villages, with only a few very hardened old people who seem to have survived what I call Auto-geddon.

There are a few exceptions and nice pockets, but they are not easy to identify.

Koya-san itself is lovely, but a car is in no way an advantage. The town is a walker's haven, with a nice slow pace. A bus or taxi will help you get to distant sights like the old Sanmon.

And Osaka-Koya is a great train trip, as fine as the road trip is dismal. (Sorry Uji, normally I agree with everything you suggest.)

Sorry to put you off, I really am. I love Kyoto, and Koya, and driving in Japan, too! But on this trip you need to be mentally ready. Expecting 'country driving' would disappoint.

There is one reason that would justify it as a road trip: if you were to continue southward deeper into Wakayama prefecture, where a car is worth having.

I realise you have included Ise. In that case, sure - drive. Definitely need a CarNavi, though.

To correct Uji, there is now an expressway from Osaka as far as Hashimoto, or thereabouts. (I might be wrong about the southern end point)

I drove that sector about a year ago, and the road was so new that my car's Navi didn't recognise it and got confused.

One thing I have long wanted to do is to go up Koya by road from the sea (west) side, I guess from Wakayama itself. The route intrigues me, and I am assuming (hoping) it is less abused than the northern slope.

Idea: go to Koya and Nara by train, and rent a car in Nara for the Ise sector.