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Drive it or park it? 2010/2/12 05:08
Before Your Toyota Is Fixed, Should You Drive It?
3 Tips Before You Hit The Road
Posted: Feb, 11 2010

In an era of bank bailouts and free-falls in housing prices, one more certainty of life has been turned on its end: Drivers of some Toyota models now need to figure out whether it’s safe to drive around town in cars once reputed to have the best quality in the world.
With apologies to Clint Eastwood in “Dirty Harry,” the answer can be best summed up with the line: “Well, do you feel unlucky…?”
Toyota recently recalled 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. so it can solve a problem with sticking accelerators. The recall includes Avalons, Camrys, Corollas, Highlanders, Matrixes, RAV4s, Sequoias, and Tundras (see the list here). In an unrelated but recent recall, Toyota announced that the Prius and Lexus HS 250h models would also fall under a recall for problems with their braking systems. Toyota said that dealerships will start receiving the remedy for the problem this week and owners will be notified to bring their vehicles in.
Toyota and most automotive experts will only say that the risk of driving these cars is extremely low. The company's tips on what to do (see table below right) aren't likely to allay all the fears owners have.
Toyota will not expressly say that they recommend drivers stop driving their vehicles. Toyota President Jim Lentz has said publicly that he is still letting his family drive their Toyotas. Officially, the company Toyota stopped short of recommending that people continue to drive the cars, but nor did it recommend that they not do so. It called the problem rare and urged people to contact their dealerships if they have concerns.
Federal transportation officials are privately saying that people should drive their Toyotas but should stay alert to potential problems with the accelerators.
“There is not enough data to be clear about what you should do,” said Don Friedman, an engineer with the Center for Injury Research in Santa Barbara, Calif.
Strictly speaking, people should not drive the vehicles, Friedman said. But he quickly added that the odds of an accident due to a faulty Toyota accelerator fall roughly among the normal risks of everyday life.
So, there's your answer: while the risk exists, so does the risk that you'll be involved in an automobile accident. Remember, in 2009 there were more than 40,000 deaths from automobile accidents. Only five of those can be attributed to Toyotas with unintended acceleration problems. You'd be better served worrying about all the other issues on the road -- from careless drivers on mobile phone to every day mishaps.
At these odds, safety experts expect many people to drive their Toyota anyway.
“People should not expect every Toyota to have a problem,” Friedman said. “The ones that are going to be serious are going to be giving some erratic indications. These things don’t just happen instantaneously.”
Still, Friedman believes the problem potentially exists in as many as 5 percent or more of the vehicles recalled.
At least five deaths and 17 injuries are being investigated for possible connections with unintended Toyota accelerations, according to press reports and safety organizations.
Unfortunately, the problems with faulty accelerators don’t occur at a particular vehicle mileage. They are more likely to occur when wear and corrosion have damaged parts and interfered with their interactions, Friedman said. The harsher the normal driving conditions, the more likely the accelerator problem would arise.
Consider these tips if you're going to continue driving your Toyota before it's fixed:
• Do a trial run and practice putting both feet on the brakes and stopping the car from a speed of 25 mph. If there's a member of your family driving your Toyota, make sure they have practice doing the same.
• Know your environment. If your Toyota is driven in harsh conditions (very cold, very hot, or very sandy or dusty areas), it will likely wear sooner than a vehicle in a more temperate climate. This could, in some cases, bring about problems with the sticky accelerator sooner than others.
• Be aware of your car's overall health. Does your vehicle get a lot of wear and tear during the year? Do you drive more than 15,000 miles per year? Constant use of a vehicle, especially without proper maintenance, can mean it is even "older" than its mileage.
Toyota now says it has a remedy for the problem and the redesigned pedals are now being produced at its component supplier. Owners will start to see letters from their dealer this week. Detailed information and answers to questions about issues related to this recall are available to customers at www.toyota.com/recall and at the Toyota Customer Experience Center at 1-800-331-4331.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Will Toyota Recover? 2010/2/12 05:45
Sure. Americans have a high opinion of Toyota products that will not change because of one problem. It is Toyota management that Americans will have a low opinion of just as Americans generally have a high opinion of America but a low opinion of politicians.
Of course there are Americans who have a low opinion of America and think politicians can make it better. They are called liberals.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Camry questions 2010/2/12 08:36
Dave-san, Peter, and Wally-san - thanks for your helpful comments - I appreciate getting your thoughts. We New Yorkers don't as a rule know that much about cars, since we don't drive them as kids, rarely work on them ourselves, and often don't drive that much even when we're growups either.

My concern is that I hear the Camry could accelerate very very quickly, before you can even react. My husband thinks that since the acceleration is something like0 to 60mph in 10 seconds or more, there's plenty of time to respond with brakes, putting in neutral, and turning the ignition key halfway so that the steering and power breaks still work.

What I think we need to do is find out from the dealer mechanics if it does what Dave-san suggested about some models - that in an emergency like acceleration, putting it into neutral may not work, and that the brakes won't be strong enough.

The other thing that's troublesome is that these cars were known to the government to have these safety issues as far back as 2003, yet the recall is for 2007's and up. On the other hand, I don't understand how a car that's been fine for several years will suddenly be suspect for these problems. Wouldn't the problems have shown up much earlier, and if the problems haven't shown up, doesn't that mean that your car is okay?

I'm hoping that Wally-san is right and that unless the car's accelerator has given warnings by acting funny, probably nothing is wrong.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Dave-san 2010/2/12 12:14
I guess our posts "crossed in the mail" - thanks for the helpful pieces. We're studying them now. The second one is especially helpful in putting this in perspective - it kind of jives with my husband Ron's take on this - he thinks I may be over-reacting. I do tend to be a nervous nelly about these kinds of things. I'm one of those who wouldn't fly after 9/11. Maybe what we'll do is "practice" some of the things they suggest - like seeing what happens when we turn the ignition key - whether the power steering and braking still work, for example. And experiment a bit with the brake, and the neutral position of the shift.

Thanks very much for posting these pieces.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Steffi 2010/2/17 00:32
My friends got their Camry fixed. Toyota added a piece behind the accelerator pedal, and installed another hook to hold the floor mat down. Dee says she cannot tell any difference when she depresses the accelerator.
by Wally (guest) rate this post as useful

Thanks Wally! 2010/2/17 03:59
We are going to do that as soon as it stops snowing and we can get to the dealer. Thanks for telling us what is involved.

Has anyone been following the story of the killer prof in Alabama? The strangest story I've heard in a while. We thought perhaps the parents were politically or otherwise connected to have gotten her off after the brother incident, but we see only that her mother was a town clerk of some kind. Very strange and getting stranger by the minute. How did Alabama hire someone like that - I guess who'd have thought? They have done some really dopey programs on this person on tv - be aware that some of these "experts" are wacky themselves, or really don't know what they're talking about. I always think it's a good idea to think in common-sense terms when listening to any "experts" about anything - if it doesn't make sense, it's probably wrong and should be ignored.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Strange 2010/2/17 05:17
Yes I ahve been following it, very strange. Brother killed years ago with 3 blasts from a shotgun and they called it an "accident !" how does that happen. Did she go into the faculty meeting with a gun ? who does that ? And the pipe bomb..do women make pipe bombs ? Doesn't sound like a females methodology..Bama..
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Circumnavagation 2010/2/19 02:55
Anyone else follow Abby Sunderlans [dotcom]?
She is the 16 year old that is attempting to circumnavagate the world solo and non stop. Today she should cross the equator into the southern ocaen. The web site is great with charts, blogs and lots of other stuff. I had a friend who raced around the world on the BOC in 95, came in next to last. The last guy they never found, was lost west of cape horn. So this is no lightweight feat. If she makes it she will be the youngest person to do so. Very Hairy.
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

ooopps 2010/2/19 02:59
To clarify.. she is sailing..as in sailboat.
sorry about that.
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Abby 2010/2/19 08:01
Peter-san,
Looks like you have too much time on your hands if you are stalking 16 year-old girls. Let me know if she gets to Yokohama.
http://abbysunderland.com/
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Sailor girls 2010/2/19 13:08
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Dave-san 2010/2/19 14:51
You were saying about having too much time on your hands??
Thanks anyway for the two other links..a 34 footer.. is a little too small for me to do a passage like that. Around the Horn..I guess you have been around the Horn eh Dave ?
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Too Much Time? 2010/2/20 07:30
Peter-san - Welcome to the club. Too much time but not enough left to do the things I still want to do. I've always wanted a sailboat but will probably never get one. I once had a 17 foot power boat that I enjoyed more than any other vehicle I had ever owned. I will probably never own another. One of the things I enjoyed most during my military career was snorkeling all over the world. Haven't been anyplace to snorkel in years. I haven't been fishing or hunting in years. All the things I want to do are somewhere else. I need to move south but probably never will.
Fortunately I have the Internet. It puts the world at my finger tips. I can explore places I have never been like Haiti or Afghanistan or revisit old places I loved like Japan and Thailand and places I didn't particularly like such as Vietnam. I can even sail around the Horn without having to deal with the nasty weather or visit the Horn of Africa without having to deal with the pirates. We live in an age of miracles and we are fortunate to live in an affluent part of the world.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Too Much Time? 2010/2/20 08:32
Well said, Dave-san! Gratitude is a wonderful thing.
by Barbara (guest) rate this post as useful

Hmmmm 2010/2/20 13:41
Are all Marines this insightful ? Dave-san ..I was very touched..
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Abby 2010/2/20 13:58
Update..Abby Sunderland..my new hero..crossed the equator at 3pm Pacific time.. this teenager is fantastic.
I sold my sailboat about 2 years ago. She was with me for 20 years and a joy to sail and be around ..except for the two months to get her ready in the spring..actually worked on her year round..lots of varnish.
I sold her to a man named Tom Mayott who does things like row accross the atlantic..no BS..he did it in a race none the less.. the dvd is almost not to be believed..nice to be 30 again.
Just for kicks [between cardio re-hab sessions] I went to Kamakura on google street maps. The back streets are so small.. but there they are..the Japanese kids walking home from school and all of the other neighborhood activity..just like "old times" except the kids now are texting and listening to there Ipods. Tried to find my house here on street maps..guess they don't like my neighborhood. If I do see the google car come by I will give it a big wave.

by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

acceleration in Toyota Camrys 2010/2/21 02:34
Suspicions linger over acceleration in Toyota Camrys

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/19/AR2010...

By Peter Whoriskey and Kimberly Kindy
Saturday, February 20, 2010
Jean Bookout couldn't control her revving car, even after she pulled the emergency brake. It slammed into an embankment beside an Oklahoma interstate, killing her best friend.
Bulent Ezal was about to park his car for lunch when it was propelled over a curb, plowed through two decorative fences and plunged over a 70-foot cliff beside the Pacific Ocean, killing his wife.
Guadalupe Alberto, on the way to the family convenience store, found herself racing at speeds of as much as 75 mph before she slammed her car into a tree. A witness said she appeared terrified as she flew by.
As the first congressional hearings on Toyota get underway Tuesday, one key question will be whether the automaker has fully diagnosed the causes of its runaway cars.
The company says it has discovered the source of the problem in sticky pedals and interfering floor mats, and is fixing them in the millions of cars it has recalled.
But in each of those three fatal episodes, the car involved was a 2005 Toyota Camry, a model that the company has indicated is free of the acceleration defects: It has not been recalled for either the sticky pedal or the floor mat interference.
"This raises a huge red flag," said Clarence Ditlow, director of the Center for Auto Safety.
He and other safety advocates have their own suspicions, aroused by a history of glitchy behavior in the electronics that control Toyota's engines.
"Many unintended accelerations do not appear to be explained by floor mats and sticky pedals," said Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), who is holding the Tuesday hearing on the recalls. "One of the key questions we will ask at the hearing is whether electronic defects could be responsible."
Toyota officials declined to comment on the cases because they are in litigation.
"We never want to see any injuries or fatalities in our vehicles regardless of the circumstances," spokesman Ed Lewis said, "and nothing is more important to us than the safety and reliability of the vehicles our customers drive."
Electronic throttle systems were introduced in Camrys in 2002, replacing the old mechanical connection between the accelerator pedal and the engine, and it is the operation of these sensors and other electronics that has been the focus of many industry watchdogs.
Last year, a study by Randy Whitfield, a Maryland researcher, showed that the portion of complaints filed with federal regulators against Toyotas involving "speed control" as much as tripled after the company installed electronic throttles.
Whitfield said his company, Quality Control Systems, which analyzes auto safety data, initiated the research on its own. It was first posted online in October 2008. A companion piece, published this month, was paid for by trial attorneys and victims' families.
The attorneys, victims' families and their consultants say several clues suggest that engine electronics could cause Toyotas to malfunction.
For example, in 2002, the company issued a service bulletin to dealers warning that some Camrys "exhibit a surging" at speeds between 38 and 42 mph.
It called for revisions in the calibration of the "engine control module," the electronics that run the engine.
About the same time, the Camry owner's manual offered a warning that the installation of a mobile two-way radio system "could affect electronic systems" in the car, including the electronic throttle system.
And then in 2007, an investigation by federal regulators found that magnetic interference could cause an increase in engine speed in a Toyota Lexus ES 350.
The investigators seemed to consider the increase small, noting that the increase of 1,000 rpms is similar to engine operation in idle, and focused instead on the threat posed by floor mats interfering with the accelerator. But safety advocates say the increase in the engine speed should have been taken as a warning sign.
In response to the suspicions, Toyota has said it has studied its electronics and found no defects.
In December, Toyota hired an independent firm, Exponent, to investigate the electronic throttles. Its initial report has been filed with Congress.
After tests of six cars and more than 100 new and used engine electronics parts, the firm said their investigators couldn't find the trouble.
But, experts cautioned, reproducing electronic problems can be extraordinarily difficult, especially in limited testing. Vibration can break an electronic connection; weather and wear can alter performance.
"If you are looking for a needle in a haystack and you don't find it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there," said Antony Anderson, an electrical engineer who has specialized in electrical failure investigations.
Federal safety regulators, meanwhile, have repeatedly opted not to pursue deeper investigations.
When officials with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced recently that they would review the potential electronics problems, they made clear their skepticism.
"This is not a defect investigation, because the agency has no reason at this point to believe there are safety defects in these systems," the NHTSA said in a written announcement.
Since Toyota hasn't acknowledged any sudden acceleration defects in the '05 Camry, or in the '06 Camry, which is involved in another fatality, what caused the acceleration may remain a mystery.
In court, manufacturers often blame alleged acceleration problems on the driver, attributing the acceleration to "pedal misapplication," or the driver accidentally hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.
In a 1989 report, the NHTSA asserted that drivers over 60 were far more likely than younger drivers to be involved in such an incident, suggesting that deteriorating reflexes are a contributing factor, too.
In each of the three fatal cases involving '05 Camrys, the driver was older than 70.
But the prolonged duration of the three fatal rides, as well as witness accounts, may make it more difficult to blame driver confusion.
Crashes caused by "pedal misapplication" often unfold in just moments -- before the driver has time to realize the mistake and avert trouble.
But the 2005 Camry cases lasted more than a moment.
In the Oklahoma case in September 2007, for example, the police report notes that one of the Camry's rear tires left a skid mark of 150 feet, apparently as Book-out, then 76, applied the emergency brake. Before dying, her passenger told first responders that the car had sped out of control, said Graham Esdale, the attorney representing plaintiffs in the case.
Ezal, then 73, was braking as he entered the parking lot and had enough time to run over a curb and plow through two decorative fences before the Camry carrying the retired engineer and his wife went off the cliff.
In the Michigan case, Alberto, 77, was driving an estimated 75 mph on a street with a 25 mph speed limit on the way to work at her family's store.
"She had both hands on the steering wheel and her eyes were wide open like she was scared or, you know, terrified," a witness, Dante Hairston said in a sworn statement.
As for the question of the driver's age, statistics from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety show that drivers between 70 and 75 years of age experience police-reported accidents at a slightly higher rate than their middle-aged peers on a per-mile basis. But they are roughly the same as drivers between 25 and 30 years old.
"Mrs. Alberto's accident cannot be explained in terms of what Toyota has offered so far with its claims of driver pedal misapplication, floor mats or sticky pedals," said the family's attorney, Edgar F. Heiskell. "The electronic throttle control took over the throttle."

by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Catch Up 2010/2/21 04:15
"Well said, Dave-san! Gratitude is a wonderful thing."
"Are all Marines this insightful ? Dave-san ..I was very touched.."
YOU PEOPLE HAD BEST NOT START ACCUSING ME OF THIS TOUCHY-FEELY BS!
Toyota article above from this morning's Washington Post. There's also an article saying nice things about the Marines in Afghanistan (imagine that, from the Washington Post, unbelievable) and an article about Tuscan Cat Stew, gatto in umido. Haven't heard about cat delicacies since the yakitori vendors were being accused of cooking cats right before the 64 Olympics. Whatever it was, it sure was good.
Jessica Watson is nearing Cape of Good Hope after nearly four months at sea. You may have me hooked, Peter-san. Your former sailboat sounds nice. I gave my boat away during my last divorce. Between being a full-time law school student and a single parent I didn't have time to do anything else with it. I noticed Abby's shoes are Vans. Didn't know they still made them. Real popular brand among California girls forty years ago. The women around hear all wear sneakers that look like they ought to be part of a space suit.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Da... Camrys 2010/2/21 05:30
Thanks Dave-san - that is a terrifying article. The ironic thing is that we picked this car because of its safety rating, which was number 1. One wonders - what good are the safety reports? Didn't they know about these problems? And how is it that all these problems are surfacing now?

One wonders if it's for real - that all the Toyotas are suddenly bad after years of good reports - suddenly there are accelleration problems, power steering issues, mats in the way, etc . This might sound slightly paranoid, but could all this be a plot to improve the oulook for our US car companies?

Anyway, we have an appointment to fix the accellerator (maybe) on March 11 - the dealers are flooded with work. We'll see what happens.

On a pleasanter note - Abby Sunderland is really something. We hope she does this difficult task she has set for herself. Her brother did it last year, and there are 5 younger siblings - haven't heard if they're next.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

HI 2010/2/21 12:46
Oh Dave you are so cute..give us a big hug!!
Abby did 24 miles today.. very slow..wait till she gets to the southern ocean..my guess that this boat [which in my view is very tender] might make 200 a day with good winds. Cape Horn is not a nice place..some might say that she is too young and inexperienced to do this..I had my first sailboat at 8, even in my best condition and with the perfect boat,[and there is no perfect boat] I would have to really think about doing this..your main enemy..fatuge,,and there is no training for it..[ok the french think they have a method]..I have sailed in 60k winds single handing with waves as high as telephone poles..fear and fatigue take on whole new meanings..given the choice I would have a heart by-pass ANY day. No s*** Abby is in serious business..I will pray for her when the time comes..in about 20 days from now.
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

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