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How much worse can it get? Camry etc. 2010/2/22 10:01
Another article - Dave-san: what do you think?


By KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – Toyota officials claimed they saved the company $100 million by successfully negotiating with the government on a limited recall of floor mats in some Toyota and Lexus vehicles, according to new documents shared with congressional investigators.

Toyota, in an internal presentation in July 2009 at its Washington office, said it saved $100 million or more by negotiating an "equipment recall" of floor mats involving 55,000 Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles in September 2007.

The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota — Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements.

The documents could set off alarms in Congress over whether Toyota put profits ahead of customer safety and pushed regulators to narrow the scope of recalls. Two House committees are holding hearings this week on the Japanese automaker's recall of 8.5 million vehicles in recent months to deal with safety problems involving gas pedals, floor mats and brakes.

The world's largest automaker has been criticized for responding too slowly to complaints of sudden acceleration in its vehicles, threatening to undermine its reputation for quality and safety.

The documents were turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and obtained by The Associated Press on Sunday. The presentation was first reported by The Detroit News.

A Toyota spokeswoman did not immediately comment.

Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the top Republican on the Oversight Committee, said the documents raise questions on "whether Toyota was lobbying for less rigid actions from regulators to protect their bottom line."

The new documents show the financial benefit of delay. In the presentation, Toyota said a phase-in to new safety regulations for side air bags saved the company $124 million and 50,000 man hours. Delaying a rule for tougher door locks saved $11 million.

On defect regulations, the document boasts that Toyota "avoided investigation" on rusting Tacoma pickup trucks. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigated the case in 2008 but closed it without finding a safety defect. Toyota agreed to buy back certain rusty pickups, inspect other and extend warranties.

The document lists seven "Wins for Toyota & Industry," including "favorable recall outcomes," "secured safety rulemaking favorable to Toyota" and "vehicles not in climate legislation." Another page lists "key safety issues," including "Sudden acceleration on ES/Camry, Tacoma, LS etc."

In one passage, the document says Toyota "negotiated 'equipment' recall on Camry/ES re SA; saved $100M+, w/ no defect found."

NHTSA had launched an investigation in March 2007 over allegations that floor mats were interfering with accelerator pedals. Toyota told the government a month later that there was "no possibility of the pedal interference with the all-weather floor mat if it's placed properly and secured."

By that August, the government had connected the problem to a dozen deaths and a survey of 600 Lexus owners discovered 10 percent reported sudden or unexpected acceleration. But the recall in September 2007 was limited to 55,000 Camry and ES350 vehicles to replace the floor mats.

The 10-page internal presentation was dated July 6, 2009, less than two months before a high-speed crash near San Diego killed a California highway patrol officer and his family and reignited concerns over sudden acceleration in Toyotas.

In October 2009, Toyota issued its largest-ever U.S. recall, involving about 4 million vehicles, over concerns of pedals getting stuck in floor mats.

The presentation lists Yoshi Inaba, Toyota's chief executive in North America, on its cover. Inaba is scheduled to testify before the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Wednesday, along with Toyota president Akio Toyoda and Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA. The committee is also expected to hear from Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, NHTSA Administrator David Strickland and safety advocates.

The Oversight Committee is holding a hearing Tuesday with Lentz, LaHood and Strickland. A Senate committee is planning a March 2 hearing.

Separately, the government said Sunday it was already investigating reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles when the nation's largest auto insurer shared complaints about the issue.

The Transportation Department released documents showing that in December 2003 it began investigating 39 complaints of sudden acceleration involving 2002-03 Toyota Camry sedans. That was about three months before State Farm shared with NHTSA complaints of sudden acceleration in 2003-04 Lexus ES300s and 2002-04 Camrys.

The document released by LaHood said the department had received allegations of 26 crashes and 4 injuries involving drivers complaining of their vehicles surging when backing up, pulling in and out of parking spaces and shifting gears.

Reports of deaths in the U.S. connected to sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles have surged in recent weeks, with the toll of deaths allegedly attributed to the problem reaching 34 since 2000, according to new consumer data gathered by the U.S. government.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

What do I think? 2010/2/22 13:53
Steffi-san - Scary article!
I don't think we have come to grips with the entire problem yet or the entire death toll. If the final three paragraphs of your article are to be believed we have a life-threatening condition that has been known about and not resolved for over seven years. I expect the problem to be ultimately traced to electronic accelerator control defects rather than the gas pedals or floor mats.
The 34 deaths and other injuries should ultimately be dealt with by the courts as far as liability is concerned although it will take a long time and may result in sealed settlements. I expect to see massive awards including punitive damages.
The congressional committee investigations are coming too late but I expect them to be a good show with the congressional committee members grandstanding and pandering to the cameras and the reporters and ultimately the people who elected them.
I don't expect to see any constructive results from the congressional hearings.
I would like to see a moratorium on new sales of affective cars until all safety issues have been addressed and resolved.
I would like to see Toyota required to provide rental cars to everyone affected by recall until their cars are fixed.
I would like to see owners of affected cars given the option to return their cars in exchange for fair market value.
I would like to see the Toyota officials who have had knowledge of this and covered it up rather than fixing it charged with manslaughter and conspiracy to commit a number of other crimes.
I would like to see all the government bureaucrats who have known about this for the past seven years and done nothing about it fired.
I don't expect any of this to happen.
I don't expect anyone to be held accountable.
I expect to see everyone responsible for this to become richer than they were before it happened.
If the financial impact on Toyota is excessive I expect the US government to provide money for a bailout.
I don't expect to see someone point out that this is what can happen when a Japanese company that makes superior products allows its vehicles to be manufactured in American plants by a subsidiary with American management but I would like to see it.
I expect to see the Toyota name in the US go the way of the name Pinto. Toyota dealers will all become Camry or Lexus or some other Toyota name dealer.
What really hurts is that we have a mint condition ten year-old Camry that we love. We bought it because it was quieter than the other cars we looked at and still is. It's the most dependable car that either of us has ever owned. If we want to go on a long trip we rent an appropriate vehicle for less than what a car payment used to be and leave our old cars parked at home.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Dave-san 2010/2/24 00:52
I agree with you whole-heartedly. Toyota and the government are completely culpable, though heads will NOT roll as they should. It's a real catastrophe and should be a lesson but probably won't be.

Besides this 09 car my husband bought last year I still own my '87 Camry wagon, which has 168K miles on it andis still humming along which will probably outlive us - of course this wonderful car, with enormous space is no longer made. Unfortunately it has none of the safety devices invented later on, and no head rests in the back, but presently feels safer than the 09. But it's all metal, and still has real bumpers protected with rubber, and wonderful automatic seat belts that were also discontinued - don't know why. We just saw a Honda in our garage that had it's bumper banged it - and were amazed at the fact that it's hollow - nothing there - just a plastic shell. What good is that? And where have all the bumpers gone?
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Consumer Reports and Toyota 2010/2/25 03:19
Where was Consumer Reports all these years, arenet they supposed to find such problems in their testing laboratories? Millions of people trust the Consumer Union, and every year Consumer Reports gives glowing reports on Toyota automobiles and trucks and the Camry is always rated number one. How could they miss the problems with the accelerator? Ifm beginning to think that the Consumer Union has been hiding these defects. I find it hard to believe that they would take kickbacks from Toyota, but I wonder what their game is?
by Wally (guest) rate this post as useful

Toyotas 2010/2/25 07:52
Wally - we've been wondering the same thing. We bought this car because of Consumer Reports, and because of our prior experience with the Camry, which has been great.

The other thing we've been wondering - we live in a city with hundreds of thousands of cars, a good number of them Toyotas. If this car really had a serious accelerator problem, we'd have seen it here. We would be hearing about horrific accidents - cars going ou of control, going onto sidewalks, or causing massive damage on crowded highways. Even one incident like that would horrify the entire city of 8 million residents, plus the additional 8 million that commute here. Yet no one here has ever heard, seen, or noticed anything wrong. We have not had such accidents, except once years ago when an old woman who should not have been driving confused her brake with her accelerator. Could it be that this is an exxagerated problem, a very rare occurence, possibly one that other cars occassionally have also? Just a thought.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Hachiko - and snow! 2010/2/27 11:02
Has anyone seen ''Hachiko: The Dog's Story'' - a 2009 movie about the Japanese Akita who was so loyal to his dead master that he waited at a railroad station for many years after the master died, arriving always at the right time? Very lovely, based on a true story about a dog in Tokyo in the 1920's. This version is based in the US, filmed in Rhode Island, and with Richard Gere. Nice breed of dog - large - double coated, so it would be great in this weather we're currently having - over 20 inches of snow, maybe more to come. This stuff belongs in Peter-san's area - in New Hampshire - not here - we literally have no room for the stuff. A car owner, or sidewalk shoveler can be fined up to $600 for shoveling snow into the street - but car owners are expected to removed their cars once the ''snow emergency'' ends - so guess where it gets shovelled? Right - onto other cars!
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Snow in NH 2010/2/28 03:23
Not much snow but had a huge rain and wind event and are under a state of emergency..90 mph winds..300.00 without power..uncluding yours truly.. dega vu..
using firends computer..pretty chilly here..
Were doing better than a friend of mine who is on vacation in Chile..big problems there..
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

NH power outage 2010/3/1 01:27
I just read that as of today, 80% of the electric power outage has been restord. Let's hope that Peter is able to go back to his home, and is safe and sound. Good luck, Peter!
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Correction 2010/3/1 01:34
Of course what I meant to say was - that the electricity was restored, not the outage. But I just read elsewhere that very many are still without power - so who knows what the situation is with Peter? We wish him well.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

Just heard from Peter! 2010/3/2 00:56
He just called us and sends you all his regards. Unfortunately, Peter's still without electricity, heat, hot water, internet service, or a usable car. They do have a gas stove cooking stove which is usable The temperature indoors is about 50 degrees, and he's been there for three days, keeping warm with much clothing. They hope to have the power back on by mid-week, maybe. Lots of trees down from heavy rain/ice, and one particularly threatening old oak leaning over the shop.

Everyone - when this is over, you have to speak to him about maybe better preparedness for these weather catastrophes, like getting a generator, lots of wood to burn, maybe another alternate form of heat. And he should at least have a usable car - didn't understand why that's not available to him.

Otherwise, he did sound good. His voice is strong, though he mentioned something about having had a fever, and some pains.
by Steffi (guest) rate this post as useful

bad weather 2010/3/2 01:23
We're back from Hawaii !
Fortunately, moderate weather has been the rule in Missouri while we've been away.

Two years ago, we were hammered by an ice storm and trees were knocked down on power lines. Some folks were without power for two weeks. Our electricity was offer for three days. We kept warm with our wood stove and we made soup on top of this stove. Our house has a ground source heat pump with thermal floor and this floor was still warm when the power returned.
Following the emergency, the Coop power company really cut back the trees from along the power line corridor. Believe me, they took no prisoners and no one complained.
We looked at a generator but had to consider what good it might do. If the generator is gasoline powered and the electricity is out, good luck getting gasoline to make electricity...
Our house is all electric but we have a 300 gallon buried propane tank that is connected to a fireplace in our upstairs bedroom. A generator powered by propane would give us about a week of electric power if only essential appliances were used. Buying a generator requires an analysis of available fuel and which appliances are vital.
An electrician can make a tie-in connection so that only the important systems are generator-supplied.
by Eric (guest) rate this post as useful

Were Back 2010/3/2 23:12
After 5 days without power we are now restored.
I thought Eric was going to take me to Hawaii!! We "lucked out" had this been 2 months ago we would have had big problems. The generator we should have is about a 10 grand affair, and Eric is right, gasoline generators need refilling and are not automatic. The single gas station in town had cars backed up a city block..[we don't really have "blocks"].
We have a fireplace but feeding it too is a huge effort that I can't do right now.also unlike a woodstove, when it goes out , then all the heat goes up the stack. As for cars, my wife had the suv and I could have driven the other one but we keep it garaged for the winter.
I did stockpile water [water pump goes out too] and jugs to flush so that was ok.
My friend Russ is on his "vacation of a lifetime" ...in Chile.. he is ok but his travel plans are messed up and there is much unrest and some chaos. He should be fine and have a tale to tell. I suggested that he register with the US Embassy so they know he and his girlfriend are ok. Was that a good idea ? You world travelers out there tell me what he should do. He has a Chilian friend there so they have a local contact who is a doctor. I think they have it figured out generally.
Lots of clean up, and some tree problems..will try and widdle away at it bit by bit. Locally there was a huge fire at Hampton Beach NH, and took out a block of hotels and an arcade owned by a friend of ours..am told its a charred disaster..but no lives lost. Nh has only 16 miles of coastline, and there are lots of visitors to this beach area which may impact the local economy..if there was a local economy.
Thanks for your well wishes.
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

cold climate 2010/3/3 01:38
While central Missouri is usually not considered part of the "really cold" belt in North America, we used ideas from the University of Minnesota Cold Climate Project when we built our house in 2002. If you are planning to build or remodel, here are a few suggestions:
Seal every source of outside air, including recepticles, indoor light cans, around windows, etc. Reduce or elimenate breaks in sheetrock on outside walls. Blown cellulose in walls and ceiling. Seal up every opening prior to insulating. Replace windows with newest spec double glazed units. Buy and use caulk by the case. Use a free standing wood stove with an outside air connection.
If you're build new, build into a hillside to take advantage of the ground's temperature. Install an energy recovery ventilator.
by Eric (guest) rate this post as useful

Spring 2010/3/3 20:28
Peter-san,
Glad you have power and heat again. Losing power was our greatest worry a couple weeks ago when the DC area had its blizzard but we were lucky. My brother & sister-in-law in Maryland weren't lucky but they survived a couple days without power. We've still got a lot of our 32 inches piled up but I've also got crocuses so Spring is on the way.
I heard about your fire in Hampton Beach from a friend who lives in Seabrook. Terrible but it could have been a lot worse.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Jailed Man Blames Toyota for Fatal Crash 2010/3/3 20:32
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/koua-fong-lee-claims-faulty-toyo...
(March 2) -- A man sentenced to eight years in prison for vehicular manslaughter maintains that the guilty party in the accident that killed three people was his 1996 Toyota Camry.
Koua Fong Lee, then 29, was on his way home from church on a Sunday afternoon in June 2006. Also in the car were his pregnant wife, his daughter, father, brother and niece. Upon exiting Interstate 94 in St. Paul, Minn., Lee says, his car inexplicably sped up as he approached an intersection.
"Brakes," Lee says he shouted to his family as they sped toward two stopped vehicles. "Brakes not working!"
Traveling between 70 and 90 mph, Lee's Camry slammed into the cars ahead of him, CNN reported, killing 33-year-old Javis Adams and his 10-year-old son, Javis Adams Jr. Another passenger, Devyn Bolton, 6, was paralyzed in the accident and later died from her injuries.
Prosecutors argued that there was nothing wrong with the car and said that Lee had his foot on the gas pedal at the time of the crash, CNN reported. Two examinations conducted by mechanical engineers concluded that the brakes in Lee's Camry were working properly at the time of the accident.
The jury did not find Lee's account convincing and convicted him.
"I know that lives were lost that day, but I did everything within my power to try to stop that vehicle," Lee, who is a Laotian immigrant, recently told CNN affiliate KARE from the Minnesota state prison where he is serving his sentence. "I never intended for this to happen."
Now, in the wake of massive recalls of Toyota vehicles due to sudden-acceleration problems, Lee's lawyers are asking that the court re-examine the Camry, which is still impounded.
"We plan to employ experts familiar with the '96 Camry and the components that make up the car to show that rapid acceleration is to blame for the accident, not Mr. Lee accidentally stepping on the accelerator," one of Lee's lawyers, Brent Schaefer, told CNN.
Toyota has issued a recall for several models and years of its vehicles, but the 1996 Camry is not one of them.
Searching the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's database, CNN was able to locate "at least two dozen" complaints from owners of the '96 Camry concerning "vehicle speed control."
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Toyota sued for fatal crash 2010/3/3 20:35
Toyota sued for fatal crash linked to throttle
by Brooke Crothers
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10448199-64.html
A lawsuit filed in California on Thursday alleges that a fatal crash in which a Toyota Camry accelerated out of control was caused by faulty electronics.
The lawsuit is centered on Toyota's ''drive by wire'' system, which is the technology underlying the electronic throttle control, the alleged cause of the uncontrolled acceleration cited in the lawsuit. That is a separate issue from the mechanical accelerator pedal problems that Toyota is addressing with its massive recall.
The suit claims that the crash killed Upland, Calif., resident Noriko Uno, 66, when her Camry suddenly accelerated to 100 miles per hour. After weaving to avoid hitting other drivers, the car hit a curb, sending it into the air, and then, finally, into a tree, according to a Reuters report.
Drive by wire replaces traditional mechanical and hydraulic control systems with electronic control systems. While drive by wire allows for a more refined, computer-controlled acceleration, it has also introduced a new set of hard-to-trace problems.
Toyota would not comment on the suit. More generally, the company is saying, at least publicly, that it has found no evidence of electronic problems. John Hanson, national manager of environmental safety and quality in Toyota's communications group, when contacted Friday, stood by a statement he made earlier this week to CNET. ''We have not found any evidence of an electronic problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration. That doesn't mean that we've written it off. We are aggressively investigating any claims,'' he said.
The case is similar to a longstanding allegation made by Jordan Ziprin of Phoenix. In a well-documented case detailed in a petition to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA), Ziprin claims that, in 2005, when backing out of a driveway near his home, his 2002 Toyota Camry XLE suddenly accelerated and slammed into a utility box. He has also claimed this was due to a faulty electronic throttle system.
Toyota has recalled approximately 8 million vehicles worldwide, including more than 2 million in the U.S., because of mechanical glitches with its accelerator pedals. Uno's family members said that they hope their lawsuit will force Toyota to widen its recall to include all models equipped with an electronic throttle and ''to retrofit those automobiles with a brake override system,'' according to Reuters.
Garo Mardirossian, a lawyer for the Uno family, said Toyota's recall should cover model years 2002 through 2006, according to the Reuters report. He added that Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had knowledge of 389 complaints of out-of-control acceleration in those model years.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

Spring 2010/3/4 01:47
Was beautiful yesterday but todaay is snowing..nothing like what Dave-san has gone through. Seabrook..is known around here as the inspiration for cartoonist Al Capp's Dogpatch, Capp lived in nearby Amerbury. There are two Seabrooks..the beach and the town. Very different. I hope Dave-san and company get out of the snow soon..they should be recovered by now.
As Eric was in Hawaii I am expecting my case of pineapples any day now..I am holding my breath. I hope he had a good time
Any Tusnami stories??
My friend in Chile on vacation is doing ok but is having transportation problems..he figures that the wait at the airport to get out will be maybe a whole day. Before that they have to get the 350 miles to Santigo which is problematic.
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Yokohama Navy Exchange was where? 2010/3/4 03:49
Negish Hights. I lived in area A just down from the hill looking at the fire station
by Big Eddie rate this post as useful

Looking For Friends from 1966-1969 2010/3/4 04:07
Hi
I am looking for friends who have lived in Yokohama navy houseing from 1966-1969. I was 9yrs old when i left, and had the time of my life there. Tina Parker, Tony Damarco. I played little leage baseball for the cubs, and went to elementry school on top of the hill our house was right below the hill faceing the firehouse. E-mail me at good_guyus2004@msn.com
by Big Eddie rate this post as useful

Big Eddie-san 2010/3/4 06:07
Big Eddie-san - Welcome to Navy Exchange was where? There are a bunch of us here who had the time of our lives in Yokohama long ago.
Peter-san - Be careful how you talk about Seabrook. Good beach towns are supposed to resemble Dog Patch. Old sun-bleached rickety wooden buildings and half naked girls built like Daisy Mae everywhere and big guys that look like they've had too much Kickapoo Joy Juice. Of course good beach towns don't do well in fires. I lived in Virginia Beach before I moved up here. Awful beach town, nothing but expensive skyscraper hotels and no place to park. The people that lived in Virginia Beach wouldn't go near the tourist area in the summer. We go to Dewey Beach, Delaware every summer. Reminds me of the Jersey Shore a little where I worked in Point Pleasant one summer.
Steffi-san - I posted two scary new Toyota stories.
by Dave-san (guest) rate this post as useful

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