4 days around Sapporo

Hi, I am arriving at CTS by plane at 8:30 am from Tokyo on October 13 and leaving by plane on an international flight at 9:00 pm Octber 16, giving me close to 4 days to explore Hakkido. I would be grateful for any suggestions on maximizing my experience. I am thinking about some travel plans and welcome any insights and critiques.

I am an experienced traveller, having been to Japan three times but have never visited Hakkido. I love shrines, temples, palaces (I know Hakkido is not the top choice for this type of tourism) and beautiful nature and scenery. I do not however plan to rent a car, so the national parks are somewhat out of reach.


Day 1. Arrive at CTS. Train from CTS to Otaru. Day in Otaru. Night in Sapporo.

Day 2. Morning train to Noboribetsu Onsen. Day in Noboribetsu. Night in Noboribetsu Onsen.

Day 3. Morning train to Hakodate. Day in Hakodate. 7:41 pm train from Hakodate back to Sapporo. Night in Sapporo.

Day 4. Day in Sapporo. Train to CTS in the evening.

It will save time if you could fly from Tokyo to Hakodate.

Some hotel offer cheap or free bus from sapporo to Noboribetsu onsen.

How badly do you want to go to Hakodate!? A daytrip there seems very rush especially if you want to take in Hakodate night scene on top of Hakodate-yama. One way train journey from Noboribetsu to Hakodate and then back to Sapporo will add up to 5.5 hrs.

For a short 4-day visit concentrate on sites closer to Sapporo. Jozankei is worth considering and a highly worthwhile side trip from Jozankei is Houheikyou Dam. Mid Oct is autumn foliage season there and you can take in the spectacular koyo view on the mt slopes around the dam area if the timing is right.

Thank you!

I looked into flying to Hakodate, but the cost was about triple the cost for a flight to sapporo.

Hakodate is by no means a must-do, and I take your point about rushed. However, I note that night life does not really appeal to me as a solo female traveler, I am of the early to bed after a good soak and up at 5am for the morning train variety. Being a road-hardened nomad, i consider 5.5 hours of train ride of little effort as long as they don`t interfere with sightseeing daylight hours. Having said all that though, Jozankei and the fall colors sound great! Would you prefer it to Hakodate if travelling fatigue is not an issue? Would Jozankei be too similar to Noboribtseu? Is there direct connection between Noboribtseu and Jozankei?

I really appreciate all your help

Sorry if I had confused you with the part about Hakodate. By "night scene" I am referring to the popular night view up the mt of Hakodate-yama, not the city night life. The excursion for that million-dollar view is considered a major attraction in Hakodate.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5354.html

The point of bringing up 5.5 hrs on train is not a question of travel fatigue neither, just a note of using up a good part of a whole day on travel with not much time left for actual sightseeing.

Noboribetsu and Jozankei each have their uniqueness. Both can let you enjoy an onsen experience, whereas for sightseeing Noboribetsu has the famous Jigokudani while Jozankei has the popular kappa boy folklore.

My recommendation on Jozankei over Hakodate is based on your time of visit. Provided the weather does not deviate too much from average years mid Oct is autumn foliage season in the region around Jozankei and nearby Houheikyou Dam is a highly popular koyo site during that time of the year.

Jozankei is more conveniently done as a side trip from Sapporo. Take a look at the access info on the following thread from another forum.
http://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopic-g298143-i5078-k6700213-Staying_in_...

Wonderful. Thank you for that. The autumn colors certainly got my attention! I am drawing up a revised plan.

Day 1. Otaru. Night in Sapporo.
Day 2. Josankei and Dam. Night in Sapporo.
Day 3. Morning in Sapporo. 2:00 pm bus to Noboribtseu Onsen provided by Dai-ichi Takimotokan. Night in Dai-Ichi Takimotokan.
Day 4. Arrive at Sapporo from Noribtseu by Shuttle bus at noon. Afternoon in Sapporo. Evening flight at CTS.

Sounds better? That million dollar view at Hakodate is also tempting though. I wish there is someway I can fit it in; I am greedy like that.

Umm...okay. How doable is it to swap out Noribtseu Onsen for Hakodate? i.e. Day 2. Josankei, Dam and train to Hakodate. Take in the night view, night in Hakodate. Day 3. Day in Hakodate, evening train to Sapporo. Day 4. Sapporo. Am I just asking for trouble?

Haha, you are not asking for trouble; the only "trouble" you have is too little time, lol.

If you really want to go to Hakodate, yes you can do it as you said but personally I would opt for Noboribetsu instead. Besides a relaxing onsen experience in town, Jigokudani is a highlight for a visit and by mid Oct autumn colour can be gorgeous in nearby Oyunuma.

Hokkaido has a lot to offer and it is BIG. We have been there 3 times totaling 6+ weeks and still haven't seen all we want to see. Be content with what you can do with just a short 4-day visit after which I am sure you will long to go back there again and again ..... and again!

Oye, I am starting to dislike you! j/k! Now I am tempted to eek out an extra day in Hokkaido when my schedule is already stretched as tight as a drum. How well I know the addiction of traveling in Japan; this will be my fourth Japan trip in seven years and my accountant would really like me to finder a cheaper destination like Thailand. You are not making him happy!

So, if I arrive a day earlier on Saturday. My schedule will tentatively look like this, thoughts?

Day 1. Josankei & Dam. Night in Sapporo
Day 2. Train to Otaru, Day in Otaru, 4.04pm train to Hakodate. Night view of Hakodate. Night in Hakodate. (Day 1 of JR Hakkido Pass).
Day 3. Morning in Hakodate. 3:15 pm train to Noboribtesu. Night in Norbitesu. (Day 2 of JR Hakkido Pass).
Day 4: Morning in Norbitesu. 11:42 am train to Lake Toya. Afternoon in Lake Toya. 7:00 pm train to Sapporo. Night in Sapporo. (Day 3 of JR Hakkido Pass).
Day 5. Sapporo. Evening train to CTS.

Some considerations in making up this schedule:

1. Avoid Satuday and Sunday stay in Noboribtesu (it's 30% more expensive!).
2. Maximize the 3 day Hakkido JR pass. (Still making up my mind on whether or not to get one).

Cocerns:

1. Do I have enough time in Hakodate (8:00 pm - 3:15 pm), Noboribtseu (5:30 pm - 11:42 am) and Lake Toya (1:30 pm - 7:00 pm)?
2. Is Lake Toya worthwhile without a car or an overnight stay?

The forum is a god-send. Thank you!

1. It looks feasible. Just be aware that Hakodate ropeway closes at 10pm. Earlier when I said flying to Hakodate, I am not sure how much you are paying but have you checked discount air ticket listed here http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2364.html ? You have to consider train cost, like Otaru to Hakodate one way alone cost 9600yen or JR hokkaido 3day pass 15000yen.

2. Lake Toya can be done within time frame you mentioned without car.

Ha, if you dislike me for what I said, you will hate me for what I'm about to say, lol!

With an extra day I would be tempted to go to Sounkyo instead of Hakodate for the simple reason of autumn colour. After so many trips to Japan, nowadays we always try to incorporate some seasonal highlights or special events whenever we go over there. Sounkyo and Houheikyou Dam were our top koyo destinations when we did an autumn road trip to Hokkaido in 2011.
http://www.japan-guide.com/blog/koyo12/121018.html (Sounkyo)
https://picasaweb.google.com/117006987794372147390/AutumnInHokkaido?no... (Houheikyou Dam)
https://picasaweb.google.com/117006987794372147390/AutumnInHokkaido?no... (Houheikyou Dam)

For sightseeing, Toya-ko needs more time than Noboribetsu as sites there are more spread out and indeed having your own wheels would help a lot. And by staying overnight there is the bonus of daily evening firework by the lake.

Hopefully by now you know what I mean by saying Hokkaido has a lot to offer. Contemplate on future visits or extend your stay further.

Guear,

Yes, I am now looking into flying into Hakodate from Korea using miles instead of cash. The point about the ropeway is very useful.

William5,

I may just have to start ignoring you, for the sake of my travel-planning sanity. Be right back, looking up Sounkyo now! Korea as a country may start to dislike you too if I keep cutting back time there for Hakkido.

All right, after a couple of sleepless nights doing feverish research and planning. Here is my revised-revised again plans for Hokkaido. Will one of you review it and tell me I am not crazy to try to cram so much into 5 days and 4 nights?

Day 1. CTS - Sapporo
Jonzankei & Dam
Night in Sapporo
-----------------
Day 2. Sapporo-Kamikawa 7:21-9:41 (Direct Train)
Kamikawa-Sounkyo 9:50 -10:20 (Dohoku Bus)

Day in Sounkyo

Sounkyo-Kamikawa 17:55-18:10 (Dohoku Bus, last bus: 17:55)
Kamikawa-Sapporo 18:53-21:50 (Train via Asahikawa)

There is a direct train to Sapporo from 20:20-22:38. Can someone tell me if there is anything to eat/see/do near Kamikawa station for 2 hours?

Night in Sapporo
-------------------------
Day 3. Sapporo – Toya 8:34-10:15 (direct train)
Toya – Toyako Onsen 10:21-10:39 (Donan Bus)

Day in Lake Toya

Toyako Onsen-Toya 16:05-16:22 (Donan Bus)
Toya – Hakodate 16:30-18:09 (direct train)

Evening and Night in Hakodate

Day 4. Morning in Hakodate
Hakodate-Noboribetsu 12:30-14:39 (direct train)
Noboribetsu station – Onsen 15:30-15:44 (Donan Bus)
That's one hour at Noboribetsu JR! Oh well...

afternoon and night in Noboribetsu.
-----------------------
Day 5. Noboribetsu Onsen – Noboribetsu Station 9:53-10:10 (Donan bus)
Noboribetsu-Otaru 10:41-12:39 (train)


Otaru


Otaru-Airport 18:04-19:16 (train)

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I note that this plan doesn't leave any time for Sapporo itself, but I didn't see anything particularly interesting in Sapporo from the guide. What do you think? I should drop Lake Toya for Sapporo perhaps?

Your sleepless nights are worth the effort as your plan is do-able though quite packed!

Doing a day trip to Sounkyo from Sapporo is very rushed but at least it is feasible since you don't mind an early start and a late arrival back in Sappporo. BTW, the Dohoku bus schedule I get is slightly different. The last bus out of Sounkyo is 17.50 arriving in Kamikawa 18.20. Note that if you can leave Sounkyo 20 min earlier there is a 17.30 direct bus from Sounkyo to Asahikawa from where you can take an earlier direct JR back to Sapporo (20.00-21.20). Or you can stay a bit in Asahikawa to taste its famous ramen. We like it so much that we went to Asahikawa a second time just for the ramen. Comparatively there is nothing interesting in Kamikawa.
http://www.dohokubus.com/13s-kamikawa.pdf

I wouldn't trade Toya-ko for Sapporo. But can you arrange a switch-over between Toya and Noboribetsu - do a day tour of Noboirbetsu and spend a night in Toya instead. That way you can take in the evening firework in Toya as well.

You!! You are the one that made me a walking zombie for the past few days. I was searching hyperida on my phone even in the bathroom!

Thank you for the correct schedule from sounkyo; I was looking at the one for the earlier in the year. As much as I love the idea of stopping for Ramen in Asahikawa, my cheapness cringe at the thought for the additional cost in bus fare when I have a JR pass. I am just going to have to find a place in eat in Kamikawa! Alternatively, I can take the 18:53 -20:05 Kamikawa to Asahikawa, slurp down some Ramen, then 21:00-22:38 Asashikawa back to Sapporo. Aye, that is going to be a long day!

I want to do Noboribtesu in the evening for the Takimotokan experience. Lake Toya fireworks will have to be forgone instead.

Somthing to see at Noboribetsu in the evening if it is in your interest:
http://www.noboribetsu-spa.jp/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/onibi_en.pdf

That looks AWESOME! Hell ya, I will love doing this in Noboribtseu. THANKS!

Have you thought of hiring a car to drive around instead? You get to see more and with a GPS should be quite doable

Sorry, just saw your reply. I would love to have the use of a car, except for the fact that I am a terrible driver. Having lived in Manhattan for the past 15 years, I don't think I remember how to get behind the wheel anymore; I am certainly not about to risk it in a foreign country.