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Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/10 17:47
Hello,

I'm building my itinerary and budget for an October trip, and trying to figure out if it would be worth it to get the 7-Day Rail Pass. When I built my itinerary using this site (9D8N), it suggested I get the pass, and upon further reading, it looks like it would make sense if I have a round trip between Tokyo and Kyoto.

However, I am planning to fly into Narita and out of Kansai to save time. With that in mind I started building my itinerary and budget and researching how much transportation would cost me, and it seems to cost as much as--if not more than--the JR Rail Pass. As I'm probably not fully understanding the different transportation methods available, I'm hoping someone who knows a bit more could help?

My planned itinerary: Tokyo + Kawagoe, Hakone, Kyoto + Nara, Kinosaki.

With the Pass:

1,500 - NEX Tokyo Direct ticket (Narita to Tokyo)
4,000 - Hakone Free Pass from Odawara station, 2D
29,110 - 7-Day Pass (for the last 7 days)
= 30,610 JPY not including in-Tokyo transportation for 2 days

Without the Pass:

1,500 - NEX Tokyo Direct ticket (Narita to Tokyo)
940 - Tokyo to Kawagoe via Ikeburo station
5,140 - Hakone Free Pass, 2D
14,000 - Nozomi train, Tokyo to Kyoto **
2,000 - Kyoto Sightseeing Card 2D
500 - Kyoto City Bus One Day Card
7,200 - JR Kansai Wide Pass, 4D
= 31,280 JPY not including in-Tokyo transportation for 2 days

What I'm not very clear with, obviously, is how much local (in-Tokyo, in-Kyoto) travel I will be able to do with the Rail Pass. I read there are some local buses, and local trains. I'm not averse to walking and prefer it unless it's too far (1h+) through nondescript places--I'm still unsure whether I'm going to need the Kyoto cards, for example (I'm mostly following the walking tours on-site).

Any advice would be very much appreciated :)

Angela
by Angela (guest)  

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/12 11:05
You could get a discount Shinkansen Ticket to lower the cost. Look into a Puratto Kodama Economy Plan Ticket, which could be as much as a 25% discount. Here is a Japan Guide link that mentions it:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2018.html

The other thing is,

I hope this helps.
by ebaychucky311 rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/12 12:51
By your calculations that's only a little more than 600 yen difference. This link shows the other JR lines in Tokyo you can use with a pass. Just a few rides and you'd break even. FYI - you cannot use the pass on Nozomi.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2017.html
by sjvacc rate this post as useful

Re: Transportation 2014/6/12 13:47
If you make a Hakone trip on the way to Kyoto, you can have intercity JR rides in your current itinerary for less than 23000 yen.

In your latter calculation, Tobu Railway fares for a Kawagoe trip (940 yen) and the price of a Hakone Freepass (5140 yen) are counted while they are not covered by a Japan Rail Pass, and a Kyoto Sightseeing Two-day Pass Card (2000 yen, valid on many bus lines) and a Kyoto one-day bus pass (500 yen) are needlessly expected together.

[Shinkansen]

Personally I dare not recommend Puratto Kodama to a traveler hoping to "save time" and thinking of a "Nozomi train" to Kyoto, because "Kodama" is the slowest train service on Tokaido Shinkansen with trains making stops at all stations.

Shinkansen "Nozomi" trains skip Odawara Station.
At Odawara, westbound Shinkansen "Hikari" trains are available every two hours from 08:08 to 18:08, all of which are bound for Shin-Osaka and scheduled to make a brief stop at Kyoto.
(A Shinkansen stop at Kyoto Station is really a brief stop, so please get prepared to get off early.)

[Places to visit]

Which places in Tokyo, in Kyoto City and in Nara City do you have in mind?

Will you visit the warehouse district in Kawagoe City? If so, Kawagoe-shi Station of Tobu is a little closer than Kawagoe Stations of Tobu and JR.

When in a day will you leave Kyoto for Kinosaki?

[Transportation cards and passes]

If you make a Hakone trip on the way to Kyoto, and if you travel beyond Kyoto Station mainly with a JR-West Kansai WIDE Area Pass, you can have intercity JR rides in your current itinerary for 22720 yen; so, unless you add a trip, a nationwide Japan Rail Pass does not seem to be a good choice. (You can save a Shinkansen charge for Tokyo / Shinagawa -- Odawara (2250 yen) by using non-Shinkansen JR lines instead of Tokaido Shinkansen.)

If you are interested in traditional Japanese housing, you might hope to add a trip to Shirakawa-go. In that case, a 7-day Japan Rail Pass may pay off, but Shirakawa-go is served not by rail but by non-JR highway bus, so you should pay fares for at least two bus rides.
- japan-guide.com: Shirakawa-go and Gokayama
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5950.html

In Kyoto, you will not need both a Kyoto Sightseeing Two-day Pass Card (2000 yen) and a one-day bus pass (500 yen); the former can be used on all Kyoto City Bus lines and most Kyoto Bus lines.
Since 22 March 2014, a one-day bus pass for the flat-fare zone on both Kyoto City Bus and Kyoto Bus lines has been available for 500 yen per adult. This one-day bus pass can cover rides to/from many major tourist spots in Kyoto City. (A Kyoto City Bus All-day Pass (500 yen) was not valid on Kyoto Bus lines.)

A JR-West Kansai WIDE Area Pass does not cover a Ltd. Express charge when you have a reserved seat. I suppose it will not make a big problem because you will not travel during a very busy season and Ltd. Express trains on Kyoto -- Kinosakionsen and on Kyoto -- Kansai-airport have non-reserved seats.

Your cost on intercity JR rides in your current itinerary is like the following if you use Shinkansen to Odawara and make a Hakone trip on the way to Kyoto.
# 8210 yen as a JR basic fare
for Tokyo -- Odawara -- Kyoto.
: This JR basic-fare ticket can be valid for 4 consecutive days.
# 2250 yen as a JR Shinkansen charge
(with a seat reserved in a "Hikari" / "Kodama" train)
for Tokyo -- Odawara.
# 5060 yen as a JR Shinkansen charge
(with a seat reserved in a "Hikari" / "Kodama" train)
for Odawara -- Kyoto.
# 7200 yen on a JR-West Kansai WIDE Area Pass.
# 22720 yen in total.

[Accommodation]

I recommend checking in advance which exit of which station on which line should be good for your hotel.

For example, if you plan to stay in Ikebukuro area, for some hotels Higashi-ikebukuro Station on subway Yurakucho line is better than Ikebukuro Stations of JR, subway, Tobu and Seibu.

Will you stay overnight in Kinosaki?

by omotenashi rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/13 02:49
Opps, I don't know how that happened, but some of my comment was cut off.

The final part was about that the Kodama Shinkansen stops are EVERY station, and it is the slowest shinkansen to Kyoto.

I looked at Hyperdia, and pulled off some of the travel times from Tokyo to Kyoto.

A Nozomi Shinkansen was 137 minutes.
A Hikari Shinkansen was 158 minutes.
A Kodama Shinkansen was 228 minutes.

It took about 90 minutes longer if you travel by the Kodama train, but you may save 3500 yen.

So... time is money.
by ebaychucky311 rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 16:04
I didn't get notifications to this thread until recently! Sorry for disappearing, and thank you so much for all the help!

sjvacc: I am aware the JR Pass does not include Nozomi trains, and I am alright with that; I just figured that IF I was going to get a train to Kyoto APART from the pass, I'd rather just get the fastest available. My above calculations only show a 600 fare difference, but does not include shorter transportation needs, i.e. if I will end up having to get a Sightseeing Card or two in Kyoto, then the 7-Day Pass just doesn't make any sense. (In my calculation above I "expect" not to need it while in Kyoto.)

omotenashi, thank you so much for your detailed response! I thought about including my planned itinerary but thought it might get overly long, but it seems I should have done ;) here is what I've worked out so far, to answer your questions plus some clarifications why I had come up with the latter transportation costs computation:

Saturday - arrive in Tokyo 8am, settle down in Asakusa, easy walking/exploring the area.
Sunday - Imperial East Garden, Outer Park, Ginza, Marunouchi, Akihabara.
Monday - Kawagoe in the morning and early afternoon, Meiji Shrine and Shibuya after.
Tuesday - travel to Hakone, maybe Hakone Round Course.
Wednesday - Hakone to Kyoto in the morning, settle in Kyoto, take Northern Kyoto Half Day
Thursday - Eastern Kyoto Full Day
Friday - Nara day trip
Saturday - travel to Kinosaki, stay the night
Sunday - travel back to Kyoto, Arashiyama district, walkaround, last minute stuff before flight out of Kansai at 10pm (airport by 7pmish)

So from the above, I planned three days' worth of transportation in Kyoto (Wed, Thu, Sun). I'm not sure exactly why I decided I'd only use a bus card on Sunday instead of a one-day sightseeing card. Should I stick to the sightseeing card?

Shirakawa-go looks very interesting! Thanks for suggesting; I'm actually not very sure if I will continue to Kawagoe as that's exactly after the...festival (the festival name skips my mind). The festival is interesting, but as I'm not comfortable staying out until late by myself to see the actual festival, going on the weekend doesn't seem like a good idea either. Shirakawa-go looks quite a bit further out but my itinerary isn't quite set in stone yet.

And yes, I am planning to head to Kyoto straight from Hakone if possible instead of heading back down to Tokyo, I just haven't checked out exactly which stations/trains I'll be switching to/from.

So it seems the verdict is definitely going sans the 7-Day Pass, unless adding in Shirakawa-go?
by Angela (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 17:06
Hi,

If your itinerary is still flexible, you may want to also consider night-trains:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2356.html
https://willerexpress.com/en/#

I find them reasonably comfortable (I guess it depends how tall you are, I'm not too tall, ~1.7m), and if you book ahead they can be quite cheap (3-5 thousand yen). Considering that's about how much you would usually spend on lodging, it's quite good! + you don't "waste" time.

About staying out till late, Japan is extremely safe, it really shouldn't be a problem. Also note that very often events will finish by 9-10 in the evening. What's considered "late" in Japan is not the same as in the west : ).

You seem to be focusing on Kyoto, which I completely approve! If you like experiencing more local culture (as opposed to touristic highlights), I whole-heartedly recommend this guest-house:
http://www.guesthouse-bon.com/e-index.html

It's in the northern part of the city, which means about half an hour of bus from the center and train station. It makes visiting Gion etc., a bit farther, but it is closer to things like the philosopher's path etc. And mostly, the host is amazing: he really went out of his way to help us as well as gave us really great insider tips on local eateries to eat etc. Was a highlight of my trip.

Don't forget to consider sending your luggage around:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html
You can actually ask them to deliver at a specific hour, several days from when you hand it over: this means you can, for example, send it ahead from Tokyo to Kyoto, while packing some bare necessities for Hakone (where I assume you'll do a lot of hiking). Also means you're not limited to destinations with easy access : ).
by dokobot rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 17:14
Surely you mean overnight buses? Night trains are considerably more expensive than 3000-5000 yen and the network isn't particularly dense.
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 17:15
Here's more info on overnight and highway buses:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2366.html
by yllwsmrf rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 17:40
As you might already know, so Kawagoe festival in this year held on 19 and 18 October, it already finished even go there on Monday.
by passby168 rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 18:03
Hello,

Thanks again for the responses!

dokobot (and yllwsmrf) - Thanks for all your suggestions! I did think about taking a night bus/train, but my concern is that I might end up too tired too quickly, as I am rarely able to sleep well in transport (especially a bus). It's definitely an idea though, and as I finalize my plans I'll think more about doing so. :)

passby168 - Yes, I am aware of the Kawagoe festival dates for this year, thanks. My concern about going there during the festival (Sunday) is the festival crowd in the daytime (when I want to see the warehouse district), and how the festival seems to be most interesting at night (which I am not yet comfortable with, as a solo female traveler who is directionally challenged). Hence the decision to see Kawagoe after the festival (Monday). However, my concern on going the day right after the festival is the post-festival environs. I don't want a shoulder-to-shoulder crowd, but I don't want to visit a "dead" town still recuperating from the festival crowd, either.

However, if you think Kawagoe will still be as clean, picturesque, and beautiful the morning after the festival, I'll definitely keep that in mind as I'm fairly keen to see the warehouse district and do a bit of walking. Otherwise I'll chalk this up for next time.
by Angela (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Japan Rail Pass vs separate tickets 2014/6/27 18:42
Indeed, it might be a good way, that you will visit Kawagoe on October 20 in order to avoid congestion. On that day, Some tourist spots open such as Kawagoe Matsuri Kaikan, Kurazukuri Shiryokan, Kawagoe city Museum, Honmaru-goten, and Kitain.

At Kawagoe Maturi Kaikan, you will be able to buy the ticket of 650 yen valid on the above spots except kitain.

Kawagoe Matsuri Kaikan
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g298177-d1425143-Reviews-...

Kawagoe city Museum
http://www15.j-server.com/LUCKAWAGOE/ns/tl.cgi/http://museum.city.kawa...
by passby168 rate this post as useful

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