Traditional Japanese Diet Serving Sizes?

Hello,

I�fd like to ask for your feedback on a Nadeshiko Yamato project I�fm working on. One part of the project concerns the traditional Japanese diet. I know through my own research the quality of the diet – its primary components, preparation methods, etc. – but what I can�ft find is the quantity, e.g. a serving size of rice.

I found the shokuiku pyramid and have a sense of what the government advises in terms of balance and serving sizes, but what would the average person actually consume on a traditional diet? If possible, I�fd like to see a sample menu for one day.

A step further, how does that average person�fs consumption compare to an apparently �gmodest�h or �gdelicate�h young woman�fs (i.e. Nadeshiko Yamato) diet? For example, an average person might have consumed 240mL of rice and 170g of fish at each meal, but a modest or delicate young woman might have had 180mL of rice and 85g of fish. I realize and understand that guesswork is probably the best anyone can do.

Thank you so much for any help you can give me!

I'm not sure if I understand what you already know and what you don't. Also, what do you mean by "Nadeshiko Yamato"? Yamato nadeshiko is a metaphoric term meaning an ideal traditional style Japanese lady (that hardly exists any more), and it has little to do with diet but more to do with attitude. Meanwhile, there are many celebrities named after that.

For example, an average person might have consumed 240mL of rice and 170g of fish at each meal, but a modest or delicate young woman might have had 180mL of rice and 85g of fish. I realize and understand that guesswork is probably the best anyone can do.

That sounds reasonable if you're talking about the current modern world, except that I don't think you're expected to eat fish on "each" meal.

Help us help you.

Hi, Uco,

My project is for a comparative culture class in which I'm comparing traditionally "ideal" women from various cultures. As far as I know, this is labeled "Nadeshiko Yamato" in Japan.

I'm trying to construct a day in the life of an ideal woman, including diet. My example of rice and fish was only an example, not a statement of fact. I wanted to illustrate what kind of information I was looking for, i.e. the serving sizes an ideal woman would've consumed on a traditional diet versus what a "normal" person would've consumed, that would've helped create an impression of being modest or delicate or "ideal".

Does that clarify it a bit?

Thanks!

Chessie,

I think that clarifies your project a little bit better.

But again, (A) yamato nadeshiko is not about phyicial appearances at all, (B) it's hard to pinpoint what you'd call "ideal", because preferences differ dependiing on the person, and (C) if you're seeking "tradition" it totally depends on the era, because in the 8th century fat women were considered the most stylish while today people's preferences seem quite the same all over the world.

For example, some girls may want to look like super models while a lot of boys prefer girls who are not too boney. Also, even if you are a girl who wants to achieve a super model figure, just as it is in most countries, there are dozens of ways to reduce your weight. Some might just not eat rice at all and take more meat and vegetables instead, while others say you should eat more while excersizing more as well.

Meanwhile, the most common weight reducing diet for non-athletic women in Japan is to control the amount of calories she gets per day, but how she obtains that amount is really up to her.

That said, the most typical way to order food at a restaurant in Japan is to either ask for ordinary portions of cooked rice (180�`200 grams) or "o-mori" large portions (250�`300 grams).

Also, the following are just examples of menus that add up to 1800-2000kcal/day which is the least a grown woman should take, but too little if she needs to be active. Each green square shows an example per day, and within that square from top to bottom is breakfast, lunch and dinner.
http://foodstock.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-12-06

Commonly, girls adjust her calories by avoiding too much butter, cream and sugar and obtaining "non-calory" material such as seaweed that in fact has lots of minerals. Girls also prefer to obtain a lot of fiber as it helps to keep a healthy bowel movement which eventually allows you to stay slender and healthy at the same time.

Again, these examples are all about modern women though, and not traditional women.

Hi, Uco,

Thank you for writing such a detailed response!

For further clarification, of the ten 18th and 19th century cultures I'm studying, seven of them focus on "femininity", "modesty", "delicacy", hence my use of those adjectives in my original post. I understood from my reading that these qualities are personified by Nadeshiko Yamato, which is why I used that label. Please correct me if I've misunderstood or if there's a better label/adjective to use.

The project examines every aspect of their daily lives, from attitude to costume to diet to etiquette to relationship to gender roles. It's easier to find material for the other categories, but the diet stumped me.

Thank you for the comparison on portion sizes in modern restaurants! It really helps me to visualize. So a "normal" portion is 180-200, a "large" portion is 250-300, but what would be considered "small" or typical of a woman creating the impression of restraint/femininity/modesty/delicacy? Are there differences in the other portions taken of other staples (which I understand to include fish, rice, sea vegetables, soy, tea, and seasonal vegetables -- but very little fruit)? Were butter, cream, and the other components you mentioned used in 18th and 19th century Japan?

Thanks!

First of all, yamato nadeshiko was not originally a name of a human being. "Yamato" is a different term for the country name "Japan" and "nadeshiko" is a name of a flower.

"femininity", "modesty", "delicacy"

You can be either fat or skinny, tall or short and still be feminine, modest and delicate as a yamato nadeshiko. Please read the following explanation well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_nadeshiko

Were butter, cream, and the other components you mentioned used in 18th and 19th century Japan?

Dairy butter and cream weren't typically used until late 19C.

So are you interested in the diet before that? In fact, there is not much that tells it, but the very few material doesn't exactly say that there were any differences in gender.

The Japanese generally didn't really eat huge portions until the late 20th century, and that means for both men and women.

Could you perhaps give us an example of what you found out about other countries? That might give us a better picture of what you are aiming for.

I too would like to find out which cultures you are studying.

In the 18th and 19th centuries there was a huge difference--in western Europe for example--between the lifestyle of rich women, especially the aristocratic ones (Duchess of this..Countess of that.etc.) and the working class women.

The later worked long hours to serve the former (including weaving fabric, making big dresses by hand etc. working in gardens, cleaning huge rooms by hand etc.)

Even in the late 1950s the women working on farms (that they owned with their husbands) were working very hard by hand in fields, vineyards etc.
I remember middle-aged women in my extended family loading hay on a horse-drawn carriage with a pitchfork. They could lift a big pile of hay without dropping hay.
I was a boy, aged 11, and tried..I couldn't do it..all the hay keep falling off...It was like trying to move a plateful of spaghetti from one plate to another 2 feet away without dropping a single strand of spaghetti...only much heavier.

These working class women did everything by hand..from loads of laundry (in the days when clothes and linen were heavy and had to be ironed after being washed), scrubbing all the wood or tiled floors in their homes on their hands and knees etc. making meals from scratch, canning vegetables and fruits etc.

All that and more, besides working outside their home..either in the fields, or a factory, or the home of a wealthy family.

They had no time for feminity, delicacy etc. and no time to worry about diet either!
The heavy work keep them in shape!