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How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 15:07
Foreigners in Japan.. How long did you live here before you could properly understand what was being said to you? I've been here for 8 months now and feel like my progress is so slow. I have never learned a second language before now, and I only began studying Japanese 1 month before I arrived here. I have lessons once a week and have done an online course but they don't seem to be enough to help me communicate effectively with others. It's really embarrassing because I work at a school and those around me often assume I can understand more than I really do. I often tell them 'sumimasen, wakari masen' but they keep talking to me in Japanese so I just give up and smile and nod. Once a week I have meetings with the Japanese English teachers at my school when I explain my lesson plans and they're supposed to discuss them with me, but what ends up happening is I explain my plan in English, then they have a conference in Japanese for 10 minutes that I can't understand, then one of them will eventually turn to me and say 'daijobu desu ka?' and I feel like an idiot telling them I don't know what they were just talking about. One of the teachers asked me to leave test papers in his pigeon hole, but I made misread the Kanji in his surname (there's another teacher with similar Kanji to his) and the papers ended up getting lost for a few days and I got in trouble. The worst is when I'm in the office when there's hardly anyone else around and the phone rings. I hate letting the phone ring because it's unprofessional, and sometimes the other teachers look over at me and seem frustrated that I just sit there and let it ring. But the times I have answered it have been really embarrassing because I can't fully understand what the other person wants and can't pass on the message. Most foreigners in Japan complain that they're met with a patronizing attitude when it comes to their Japanese language ability, but my experience is different. Instead of underestimating my Japanese they often overestimate it and all sorts of mistakes happen as a result. I feel like maybe I'm just stupid or a slow learner because no matter how much I study I just can't seem to communicate beyond having basic conversations about the weather, where I'm from and what I did on the weekend, etc. Does anyone have any advice for how to speed up the learning process?
by jennjett  

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 19:04
Does anyone have any advice for how to speed up the learning process?

Study more, once a week is definitely not enough. But in any case, unless you are a genius it will take several years before you can function at a satisfactory level.

If you can't get lessons more than once a week, buy a good textbook such as Genki and self-study.
by Firas rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 20:24
I am a 54-year old Japanese who got a BA from US living there after 4 years and I call Australian home living here almost 30 years. I'm still learning everyday trying to improve my English... To me it's a life long commitment... If you stay in Japan another 10+ years, I am sure you can laugh about it.
by guest (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 21:22
Guurrl,

I've been taking 24 private lessons each week for nearly two months and am still nowhere near a fluent speaker level. Far away.

I do understand like 20-45% on a good day but gimme some keigo during a phone call and I will understand like 4%. And the kanji... anyways.

You definitely have to invest more time in learning Japanese. I once read after 3 months of intensively studying in Japan it will click and you suddenly your listening comprehension and speaking is much improved. But who knows.
by asahana (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 21:40
Thanks everyone. You are right that I need to invest more time. I have been using the Genki textbook as well as Minna No Nihongo and self study for about an hour (occasionally two or three) each day but my brain feels so overloaded with information that it's not sinking in. I feel okay with the basic grammar but can't use it much because my vocabulary is so limited. There are weeknight lessons in my town however they start early and I can't get there from my job in time. The main issue is I only seem to retain 25% of what I study. I'm still trying to memorize some verbs and their conjugations that I started learning months ago! It's like my brain is bombarded with too much new information and shuts down. Do all people have this trouble when they're first learning a new language, or am I extra slow? Guest, I am actually Australian, we are in reverse situations, how amusing!
by jennjett (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 22:17
Dear Janet

You've been in Japan for 8 months and you pretend to speak fluent Japanese?!

It takes 5 years to do a Language degree in Europe and you want to learn a non-European Language in 8 months?
Take it easy!

However, learning Japanese or any other Asian Language is not just about grammar and dictionary but "thinking" : many Japanese expressions make no sense in English as many English expressions make no sense in Japanese.
Patience is the only way or it can become very frustrating.
Culture shock looks more likely in your case.
You're no worse or better than any other learner.
Thanks for sharing and stop blaming yourself.
God bless you.
by John (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 23:12
It's normal that you can't retain everything you study, especially vocabulary. Studying long lists of vocabulary is the worst possible way to study, you need to encounter the words naturally if you want them to sink in. The best way to do that is to read a lot, for example I enjoyed the "Japanese Graded Readers" series (search for "xʓ{ꑽǃCu[" on Amazon).
by Firas rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 23:39
Are you learning the kanji for the vocabulary as well? Try to memorize 8-10 words a day. When you study a lesson, pick the 8-10 words that seem the most useful and try to commit them to memory.

When self-studying, you'll redo lessons and material. That's good. If you committed 8-10 words to memory the first time, then the next time you reexamine that lesson, you'll know those words, and can memorize a different set. Don't just try to memorize all the words in a set of vocabulary at the same time.

Make sure you learn the kanji with them. Practice writing the kanji. Write each word out 20-50 times (it's tedious but it WILL work). Speak the word out loud while writing it a few times.

Then, after you wrote the words out 20-50 times each, write full sentences in Japanese that incorporate the word. Having to think up a sentence with the word in it is great practice for retaining the meaning of the word.

I've been studying Japanese for 14 years and living here for 10. I think I could probably pass the JLPT1 but the honest truth is, I've never even attempted that test at any level.

I translate and proof read documents (usually poorly written ones that require me to examine the original Japanese content in order to fix them) and don't need that test as a qualification for my job, hence I never took it. Still, even translating, there are many words I come across that I don't know. I usually don't bother memorizing them, but if I come across them several times within a short time period, say 1 month, then I usually notice that I just retained the word (probably because I read it in a sentence and with a context).

So, write sentences. They really help retain the word. Just memorizing a list of words without any context will not work. In the future, your biggest problem will be that you can remember how to read the kanji, you can identify the word, read it in Japanese, and type it on the computer, but you'll always make mistakes when writing it on actual paper. Well, that's my problem anyways. But, if you write the words 50 times each, you'll probably at least remember how to read/identify the meaning in the future, which is the most important thing anyways.
by Heh (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 23:56
Trust me, what you are feeling is normal. When you pick up a second language it becomes a commitment for years to try and learn it.

I've been learning for 8 years now and while I can hold a conversation and understand a good amount of what it spoken to me, I still have times where I just feel like I understand nothing.

If you want to set goals for yourself maybe follow the JLPT standards? You don't have to take the tests if you don't want to but you can buy the JLPT study books for each level and learn from those. They can help set up a goal for yourself so you don't feel like you are just reaching in the dark to learn new things.

They sell plenty of good study books in Japan and for decent prices as well (I always buy my study booklets from there, especially the kanji ones they are very useful).

It's a long road to learn the language but the more you study, practice, and use the language in your daily life it'll start to stick with you.

Good luck and don't give up!
by xbutterxcupx rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/6 23:57
Are you learning the kanji for the vocabulary as well?

No, no, no. That's the biggest mistake one can make. If you try to learn all the kanji of all the words you know, you will hit kanji overload very quickly.

Kanji and vocabulary learning go in parallel, but kanji learning goes much more slowly. Japanese children learn the kanji in the 8th grade, but they know the word long before then. It's okay to know a word but not its kanji.
by Firas rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/7 04:00
So is it okay to write its "version" in hiragana, like you will sometimes see the Furigana on the side of a kanji character in more novice-level writing?
by John B digs Japan rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/7 06:12
No, no, no. That's the biggest mistake one can make. If you try to learn all the kanji of all the words you know, you will hit kanji overload very quickly.

Kanji and vocabulary learning go in parallel, but kanji learning goes much more slowly. Japanese children learn the kanji in the 8th grade, but they know the word long before then. It's okay to know a word but not its kanji.


You're probably going to hit kanji overload at some point in learning Japanese anyways.

To me it is better to learn the kanji of the word as soon as possible. Otherwise you are learning the kana for the word and then having to learn the kanji later. Double the work. Get the kanji done as soon as possible and save yourself some time and work.
by daai maou (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/7 07:32
It is much easier to retain things if you review what you studied right before you go to sleep.
by a (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/7 07:52
I was in a different situation (learning german not japanese) so maybe this won't be relevant. Maybe you could try asking one of the more easy going japanese English teachers out to lunch or to accompany you on a day trip and just have general conversations with them. I found talking as much as possible to be the best way to pick up new language. Seeing as you said during lesson plans they "gang up" it would be an opportunity to get at least one of them to realise what level you're actually up to as far as japanese goes. That way they can be your advocate to some extent when you have to say "I'm sorry but I don't understand". Also has the plus side of potentially making new friends
by Chasingme (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/7 09:24
Go slow, you've a long life ahead of you.

As for work, everyone makes mistakes. Try to let it roll off you.
by Harimogura (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/7 12:49
Language Exchange (in person) also helps a lot.
Most young Japanese know a certain degree of English and they can help when you're at a loss.
I find it quite overwhelming conversing with seniors who don't speak a word of English.
For now of course...
Also every person speaks a "different language" in Japan: men, women, young, old: I can understand easily my Japanese wife while can't get a word from my mother-in-law... but it's consoling that my wife does not understand her mother either sometimes...
by John (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: How long does it take to learn? 2015/3/8 00:29
It's absolutely essential to study the kanji with new vocab. Don't let lazy people tell you that you'll overload or that it's too hard. That's lazy talk right there.

Kanji is not hard to learn or write. It's hard to memorize sometimes, true. But it's no harder than memorizing a word. If you don't know the kanji then learning a word will be less useful. You're not going to see hiragana written everywhere. There's not much furigana either.

Practice the radicals first, get used to them. Learn the proper stroke order. Once you get going you'll be a learning machine. Don't worry about how early or late Japanese children learn words. You're not Japanese nor a child, you're path of learning the language will be much different. Memorize useful and important words and prioritize your study time.
About Japanese children anyways. They do follow a general order of learning kanji, but most of them know far beyond just what they learn in school. P is a junior high kanji but show me a elementary school kid who doesn't know it. They read manga and play games. They learn words faster than any non native ever will.
by Heh (guest) rate this post as useful

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