japanese university, good reputation?

I am interested in perhaps enrolling in a Japanese university. I know a few friends/acquaintances (foreigners of course) who currently study in Japan as full-time students. They say it's a real challenge and a lot of fun.

The only thing is, I've heard rumors that some Japanese universities don't have a very good reputation in terms of quality education (except for the big players like todai, kyoto, keio, waseda etc.).

Can somebody confirm whether this is true or not?

While I am interested in studying in Japan, I'm also worried that if I were to pick out a university, it wouldn't provide me with the best job opportunities in the future.

One university I am thinking of applying to is Ryukoku university in Kyoto. It's private, and they do not recquire you to take the ryugaku shiken since they have their own entrance exam.
They also have this one year preparatory language/culture course that you can enrol in so as to prepare you for future admission at their university (which I am opting for right now).

My Japanese language skills are ok, but not enough to be able to pursue high studies in Japan, so the reason I was thinking of going to Ryukoku was because they have this preparatory course.

Now I don't want to badmouth Japanese institutions of higher education at all, but since there are so many universities in Japan, both private and public, and it does seem to matter where you study (right?), I was keen on getting a few pointers from people with experience in this field.

Also, how are Japanese university degrees valued abroad?

Thanks in advance

I don't know much about how foreign graduates of Japanese universities are viewed upon employment outside Japan. But as a former local graduate and current parent, I know a few things about how universities are viewed inside Japan.

The OP writes;
"I've heard rumors that some Japanese universities don't have a very good reputation in terms of quality education (except for the big players like todai, kyoto, keio, waseda etc.)."

This is no rumor. It is a fact that all educators and specialists have been admiting over the decades. In a similar sense, an unknown college and Harvard or Oxford makes a great difference, right?

Job opportunities in the future depends on what field you are aiming for. Many fields today make it a rule not to ask for school names. But employers do admit that they end up hiring those from famed schools, probably because these kids are smart enough to learn tactics that would appeal to their potential employer. Once they start working however, often they end up being useless, which is one of the reasons employers don't want to judge graduates by their schools.

And then some universities are good at certain job fields while others are good at other fields. For example, Todai is famous for producing politicians while Keio is famous for producing entrepreneurs and Waseda for journalists.

Most universities have very thorough websites that show what kind of employment graduates have achieved. That might help you get the picture.

But I keep reading reliable posts on this forum that ANY university degree will help you obtain work in Japan (even non-Japanese universities, of course), while if you don't have a uni degree employment will be extremely limited for foreign residents.

Typically in Japan, local high school students would go to "Open Campus" where uni students and staffs would eagerly recruit potential students (they didn't have this event in the past but now the teenage population is decreasing and universities struggle to maintain themselves financially). So it would be best if you could walk to campuses, or if not, view websites and ask questions directly to the universities, students and graduates.

As a mere example, simply by Googling 竜谷大学の評判 I found this;
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q131...

Dear Uco

Thanks for your extended reply.

What I was actually interested in majoring in was international culture and relations. Don't really know the job opportunities inside Japan for that though.

One thing about what you mentioend, you're saying that in the end, people who graduated from good universities may not end up being much better than people from less known universities. Does this mean that a graduate from a less known university could get hold of a top paying job, even if there are other candidates from better universities?

This actually surprises me. One would indeed expect that a graduate from a famous uni would be more capable than others in certain respects.
Isn't this a signal to the Japanese education system that perhaps something might be wrong?

Kakuei Tanaka who was the Prime Minister of Japan in the 70s only had as much as elementary school education. Hey, this is a free country. We don't have caste here :)

But honestly, I know people who never went to college and work with people who graduated Waseda. They make as much money too.

"Isn't this a signal to the Japanese education system that perhaps something might be wrong?"

Well, the signal comes from a bit of a different place (The signal is that nowadays, students who have entered univsersities can't keep up with the studies at their university. They lack basic skills that were supposed to be learned by the time they graduated high school. So unis are changing their curriculum). But don't you think it's generally the same in a lot of countries? A guy who graduated an unknown college in the U.S. does have a chance of climbing the laddar faster than a Hardvard graduate, doesn't he? It's just that the chances are thinner. Same thing.

But generally speaking, Japanese universities are hard to enter and easy to graduate. So a lot of students of top notch unis end up doing very little academic studies during their uni years. Therefore, what Japanese employers tend to judge from school names is (A) how much they must have studied to enter that uni and (B) what kind of creative or tactic students they must have been coping with in their uni, and not really how much academic skills they might have. In job interviews, they would ask interviewees what they were doing in college. Answers like how they learned business from part time jobs or how energetic and cooperative they were in club activities are certainly acceptable, because that's what you need in a businessman.

If you major in sciences or if you go to postgraduate course, that is another story, though.

But to be fair, a lot of locals think like you do. They don't believe that graduates of low-level education can compete with those of high-level education. I guess it depends on what part of the world you're looking at and how. You can guess that from internet posts like the link I wrote previously.

I'm wondering if it would help if you tell us what country you are from.

Another thing is that the original poster seems to want to study in Japan then get a job elsewhere, may be her/his original country. As an immigrant to North America I know that many employers have no clue about education abroad. Of course it was 30 year ago when I came but I still get similar questions now and then: do they have real schools in your country,they don't have universities do they? when I mentioned that my university (in Europe, in one of the G8 countries)was started in the 15th century they just couldn't believe it. To be fair if I came back to my native country with a US university degree employers there may laugh too. So the original poster should think about that. As for students from better universities being better? DUH!! everywhere graduates go from the ones who had top marks all the time to the ones who graduated by sheer luck and with the bare minimum marks.

Dear Uco

Thanks for replying.

You said that many Japanese students lack fundamental academic skills? To be honest I've never ever heard that one before. If they study as hard as they do to enter university, then I thought they would actually have an abundance of academic skills. I'm really surprised to hear this. I'm equally surprised to hear that you say Japanese students have had difficulties coping with their studies.

I don't think my country of origin necessarily influences my point of view. I'm from Belgium. Here, lots of students actually lack those academic 'fundamentals' as well, which is why only about 1/3 of the freshman students pass their first year. Also, there aren't any entrance exams here (except for one or two majors). And because it's all government funded, anybody can basically go on and study whatever they like, wherever they like. So in a way, I could understand if most Belgian freshmen didn't do well because they lack skills, but I certainly wouldn't expect that from japanese students since they study like hell to get into Japanese university in the first place.

I didn't say that I don't believe people from less known unis can't compete with graduates from famous unis (if it did come across as such, it was merely a suggestion, not a claim). What I meant with this was that I find it strange that in the end, somebody from Waseda for instance, has equal skills and opportunities as somebody from any other 'normal' university, in which case (and this is my point), I don't see the real need to go to a famous uni. It's far more expensive and difficult to get into, and in the end, the 'output' is the same. I used to hear that certain top paying jobs in Japan were only limited to graduates from top universities, but if that isn't the case any longer, I personally can't see the long term benefit of going to a top notch uni.

I do think that a person who graduated from an unknown college would have slimmer chances than someone from Harvard, but I don't know if he would be climbing the ladder any 'faster' than the guy from Harvard, since the Harvard graduate would probably already be much higher on the ladder than the other guy (in the beginning at least).
But based on what you've told me, that doesn't seem to be the case in Japan. Whether you go to a uni with a great reputation or not, you end up on the same step of the ladder like everyone else. Isn't this right?

So essentially, I'm saying that I absolutely believe that you can make it big even if you don't graduate from Oxford or whatever, but, in the case of Japan, if everybody comes out equally, and has done little academic work during their student years I would say don't bother going to an expensive uni.

To Monkey see:

I see your point. I didn't think Europeans would frown upon an american degree at all, on the contrary, I thought they would praise it. But as for me, IF I go to Japanese university, I would like to remain in Japan.

From the experience I have by talking with my Japanese friends I recognized, that almost all told me the same.
It seems like university in Japan really just is the necessary push for a carreer in a "normal" company, or better say:

To become a real 社会人 (shakaijin), means, a person with a normal regular income and normal life (whatever that means) with a lifelong job in always the same company, where he/she can promote theirselves and get more income from year to year (of course it takes long until you get much - except you are really good).

You know, people, who didn't graduate from university have huge difficulties in Japan to become Shakaijin and quite often end up just as low-paid Freeta, who don't have any more chances to promote theirselves and get more money (of course that's not always the case, either!!).

So, to most people perhaps it's not important, how good the university is, they are attending, BUT that they are at least attending ANY university and be rescued of the danger of becoming just a Freeta with less future chances.
That's perhaps one reason why they struggle so much to manage the entrance exams of different universities.

So, of course universities like Waseda, Keio, etc. have a big status in Japan and anyone coming from there will be preferred by companies.
But that doesn't mean that someone from a "lower" university shouldn't have any chances.

But as for the studying at the university itself:

It mostly contends of baito, baito, baito and sleeping during the lessons.
You know, the fees for studying in Japan are extremely high, even for non-private universities and most parents can't afford paying these, so the students work in part-time jobs A LOT!
There are almost no Japanese students who do not do any part-time job besides studying.

And not only for the university fees, but also for going out, clothes, etc. they do part-time jobs.

What does that show us? They're enjoying their university life a lot and don't come to think of studying, until the next exam of course.
If you take it real, many students in many countries are like this.

Furthermore, becoming a Shakaijn often (not always) means to a Japanese: Less freedom, because of the tight bond to the company and the duty to sacrifice yourself for it, work overtime, meeting friends less, etc.
University life is the only time, where Japanese can be more free as usual, within the high expectations of society.

And it is fact that even universities with a good reputation like Todai are as easy to graduate as a university with no reputation (a Japanese friend told me right the same!!).
Of course it depends on the subject, too. Medicine and stuff is difficult wherever you are.

But that's also a funny thing about Japanese universities:
To the company a Japanese student later applies to, it really doesn't matter what subject he/she was studying.
Whether he/she studied economics or just some languages, whatever... As Uco said, the companies don't care much about the academic skills.
Little bit different from our European system, isn't it?

(I'm from Germany, by the way - the country with the maybe most strange universities - at least at the moment with suddenly all changing to Bachelor and Master and just creating chaos *laugh*)

Of course again this doesn't apply to persons who study for example medicine or law.

And of course also in Japan there are people, who try to make something out of the subject they studied, for example, if it was a language, then to work in that other country or at least in a company having international correspondences, etc.
Depends on the person, either.

As for you, seems that you'd like to work in Japan, that's why you'd also like to study there, did I understand it right?
So, maybe it's really true, any university you chose is quite fine, if you want to just become a normal worker in a normal company.
If you'd like to achieve something bigger, well then of course it wouldn't be a big mistake to attend a university with high reputation.
Doesn't mean that you HAVE to do that.

Also, it doesn't mean, that all I have said here now is the average and always right.
Of course it is not.
I still don't know everything about Japan and in just two weeks I'll finally begin to study for a year in Tokyo.
So, all I now can say about Japanese universities is what I heard from my Japanese friends or in my Japanese culture lessons.

The rest is maybe up to you.
Find it out by yourself.
If I were you, I'd maybe really don't care what university in Japan I attend to (at least as long as I can pay it).
One fact is, that there isn't really a bad university in Japan, at least not as far as I know.

Another fact is, that you, especially as a foreigner, simply will NEED a university degree to work in a Japanese company in Japan.
If the degree is from a Japanese university, it's possible that they'll take you with a kiss on the hand.
Depends on your future goals, what you'd really like to do.

Uco, please correct me if I'm anywhere wrong here.
Because you are really one of the persons here with the most knowledge and experience about Japan (you're Japanese, if I'm not mistaken now?) :)
And I also still have worries about the still standing differences between female and male university graduates, just by the way (maybe I'll ask in another topic).

OP wrote;
"You said that many Japanese students lack fundamental academic skills? To be honest I've never ever heard that one before."

D, you should read more Japanese on-line news headlines. EVERYBODY knows that in Japan. And entrance exams, although still competitive, aren't as academic as they used to be. Look up words like AO入試、指定推薦校.

OP wrote;
"I used to hear that certain top paying jobs in Japan were only limited to graduates from top universities"

You know it's not "limited". That would be against the law. It's that top unis tend to get better chances, mostly because employers know that former graduates have made achievements in their company. If the achievements are no longer made, employers will change their minds.

But true, in say the 70s, it was like if you go to good kindergartens you are practically on the escalator to good unis and good unis automatically led to well-paying stable enterprizes, and good enterprizes automatically led to not being fired for the rest of your life. But this has totally changed since the economy collapesed in the late 80s. AND therefore indeed, many younger people don't believe in education any more.

But sending my own kid to school, I feel that schools are a convenient way to obtain a fair level of education without having to struggle to go find it yourself. For example, if you didn't go to unis, you would have to search the internet, walk to libraries, negociate with people in order to obtain knowledge or skills, while if you attended a uni, they will have good carriculums ready for you to choose from, they give you degrees and will have a bulletin board with plenty of job ads. It's a matter of thinking whether or not the money is worth for this. It's not that unless you pay the money, you won't get the future job. It's that for some people it's easier to pay money and for others it may not be. There are more options than there used to be in Japan.

OP wrote;
"I do think that a person who graduated from an unknown college would have slimmer chances than someone from Harvard, but I don't know if he would be climbing the ladder any 'faster' than the guy from Harvard, since the Harvard graduate would probably already be much higher on the ladder than the other guy (in the beginning at least)."

But the non-Harvard guy may have been working on internship or doing original research on his own while the Harvard guy was attending classes. That's what I mean.

Again, a lot of people in Japan do look at things the way you do. It depends on how you view things. You did look at the Japanese link, did you?

OP wrote;
"Whether you go to a uni with a great reputation or not, you end up on the same step of the ladder like everyone else. Isn't this right?"

No, it's just that you might end up on the same ladder or you may not. And that tendency has become greater compared to the pre-70s days.

Also I have nothing to say against Sasori's post, and I strongly agree to many of the contents.

So to set the record straight, Japan is not how it was in the 70s any more. But good schools still tend to attract better students. "Better" meaning often "more creative" or "more fun" depending on what you call "creative and fun". Also each school has a different character. So high school students tend to choose unis depending on which one they're comfortable with, or which one they think is cool or which one has a better lunch.

I think I can make that long story a bit shorter now.

OP wrote;
"if everybody comes out equally, and has done little academic work during their student years I would say don't bother going to an expensive uni."

Right, don't bother to spend money just to have a brand uni name on your resume. But I thought unis were meant to provide you the CHANCE to expand your knowledge and have you be inspired by interesting students and professors.

If you've already made up your mind about what career to seek for your future, sometimes it's better to just go to a small college that specializes on that field. But by going to a big uni with big people coming in and out, you will have the CHANCE to attend various lectures and fill yourself with bits of everything, therefore giving yourself more options to choose from in the future. And (since a lot of students don't study in unis) Japanese employers tend to seek "experiences" in graduates. You will have an advantage just by experiencing campus life in Japan as a European, but if you achieve something in a reknowned uni club activity or write a high-quality thesis thanks to your uni's education, the employers would buy that too. It's all up to you.

Dear D,

What is the real reason you want to study in Japan? At your original post you said you heard that studying in Japan is a big challenge and lots of fun.

Let me comment on that.

1) It is indeed a big challenge, because your friends might be attending classes in japanese and, therefore, if you don't major the language you get totaly lost! To overcome this, is indeed, a big challenge!

2) It is fun! Yes, it is! However, the fun is not in the college but in the big cities of japan. Lot's of people come to japan to teach english and have fun while here. So believe me, the fun won't be at Uni, but Uni will provide you with opportunities to meet friends from all over the world and have fun OUT of campus.

3) Regarding the reputation of the universities in Japan. As mentioned in posts above, it is going down the hill! There is a list (probably you can find on the net) which shows the top asian universities and TODAI (tokyo University) in NOT the top asian university anymore and all other japanese uni's are losing position.

Here in Japan there is a big stereotype about NATIONAL universities being good. If you say you are attending a NATIONAL university a japanese people would tell you right after: 頭がいいですね！(you are smart!).

So, generaly speaking, if you want to come a japanese university and increase your chances of finding a job here afterwards, I would advice you to choose a 国立大学 (national university). Of course there are very good private universities too (I think waseda is one of them) but if you don't want to analyze case by case, I would advice you to pick a big national university (Tokyo, Kyoto, Oosaka, Yokohama and the list goes on).

Regarding if the university has any impact on your job-hunting possibilities, the answer is YES! If you graduate from a renowned uni, your chances of succeding are higher! When you search for a job as 新卒 (recently graduated), the proccess will be something like: 1) submitting all the documents they require; filling many application forms through the net and doing SPI test. 2) go for many interviews.

I would say, if you graduated from renowed universities your chances of passing through the proccess are bigger. Otherwise you might be droped out and not even called for an interview.

*** One thing that you should keep in mind! If you want to find a job in japan in BIG JAPANESE Companies, you GOTTA LEARN the japanese language VERY WELL!!! Only communication skills are many times (NOT ALWAYS) not enough. You gotta be able to read very well!***

The reason is the SPI test I wrote above. This is an exam that everybody takes (japanese or foreigner) and it is in japanese language (there is not SPI in english!!!). It covers from personality tests, reading comprehension (of japanese) and etc. Since it is an exam made by japanese people to japanese people, don't expect any vocabulary and expressions. It will be the real thing! If you fail to understand the questions you might fail and won't succed for the interview phase. ***

If you go to foreing companies in Japan, then no worries about SPI. Some small japanese companies might not require it either.

To conclude, mainly employers won't be concerned about what you have learned from university. If you start working for them, they will put you will a training (研修）and there, you will learn your skills for the job you got.

And that is why japanese students don't take university seriously here!!! Cuz they know the empolyers don't care! So, they use these 4 uni years to enjoy.

At last, if you search for a job as 中途採用　（experienced worker), then it resembles to the proccess in most of the western world where your knowledge is the only thing that matters, rather then from where you got your diploma.

Best Regards!

To Sasori

About all the baito and sleeping through classes, this is another one of those things jap. students seem to do a lot of. I'm not condemning this, i mean it is a different culture, so i respect it for what it is, but i still have a hard time understanding it.

My former hostbrother for example, he told me he was in his 4th year of uni, and only went to class like twice a week. All the rest of the time he worked. Then there was another guy i knew who was in his 2nd year at uni. did he ever study? oh no, not from what i saw. he did, however, drink, smoke (lots), listen to music, surf the internet, play his guitar, do lots of baito, but studying? forget it.

You said you were from germany right? In that case belgian uni isn't that much different compared to germany i think. we've had the BaMa system implimented for a couple of years now.

But let me tell you something, if a belgian student behaved like what you've told us, (sleeping, working, and basically doing everything but studying), and like the examples i've just mentioned above, take my word for it, he would NEVER succeed. It's that simple. Here in belgium, it's strongly advised that a student should study an average 4-5 hours per day! I don't see japanese students doing that for a million years. and during exams here, it's said that you need to study at least 10 hours a day or more, and start making preparations at latest a month or two before the exams even start. Again, this is completely different in japan.

isn't germany more or less the same as belgium?

yes, i would indeed like to work in japan. perhaps i could also set up my own company in the future (both my parents are entrepreneurs). but if i studied there, i would really want to make most out of my studies, and not just pay money to bloody sleep through classes. if i want to sleep so bad i might as well not attend uni at all.

To Uco:

Maybe i should read more news about japan on the net, haven't really done that in a while.

Yes, i looked at the japanese link you gave me.

Yes, of course uni is about having the chance to expand your knowledge and to meet inspiring people. But, uni also wants you to learn to think for yourself, and not just make you study vast amounts of information. Perhaps japanese unis put less emphasis on learning to think for yourself...

Just on a side note, Uco, you are Japanese aren't you? How come you're so good at English? Your english sounds so natural.

To Me:

My reason for wanting to study in japan? that's a bit of a grey area to be honest. But let's just say that i like the japanese language, the culture (not all of it though), japanese in general, the fact that japan is totally different from europe...and also because i like to be abroad basically.

Haha, i wouldn't want to go to no national university to have people tell me that i'm smart. Heck, all i need to do is open my mouth and speak only a single word of japanese, and they all go 'you're smart!', even without a university degree. But seriously, i assumme you'd have to take the ryugaku shiken to enter a national university. my preference are universities that don't require you to take the ryugaku shiken.

Why i think it's only natural that one should learn japanese very very well if one wants to work in japan in the first place. there's no question about that. that really is a foreigner's top priority if he chooses to go to japan.

by the way, what is this SPI test called in japanese? Most universities do require you to take either JLPT level 1 or 2 to be admitted to their faculty in the first place, so i would assume that after having studied in japan for 4 long years too, it shouldn't be too difficult to pass this SPI test you talk about.

Well, after reading all these comments, like you, i too can conclude that employers care more about 'experience' and less about what they've actually studied.

Hi people, i have a question similar to this topic and i would like to know if there is any better Japanese language schools that prepare you for university after taking the language course for 1 or 2 years.

After reading so many of the post im really afraid of choosing the not so good schools any more. You know, they say better be safe than sorry.

D wrote;
" Perhaps japanese unis put less emphasis on learning to think for yourself..."

Well, I had always thought on the contrary. With so much time and freedom for yourself, what could one do but to think for yourself? Of course, again it's up to you and it could be up to the uni, but most of my uni homework was writing short thesis, so it pretty much forced me to think for myself. Also the seminars I attended at my uni was all about thinking for yourself and debating with the professors. But I got through many of the boring lectures by letting friends write my attendancy card and copying their notebooks ;)

"Just on a side note, Uco, you are Japanese aren't you? How come you're so good at English? Your english sounds so natural."

I spent some time in L.A. in my childhood, I am currently a professional translator and reading and writing on this forum has improved my English too! How come you're so good at English?!

Dear D,

I have to tell you that many many foreigners assumed that once they lived in Japan for some years, they would be very fluent in nihon-go. Unfortunately, that turns out to be wrong (unless you are either chinese or korean).

I can classify the japanese skills of foreigners (except chinese and koreans) attending unis in japan like the following:

1) The ones who came to pursue PhD only, usualy acquire very basic knowledge of the language. The reason is that PhD students focuss on their research and don't have much time to put on learning the language.

2) The ones who came for master: For this group, it actually depends. Some of them had to study a lot to prepare for the uni entrance exam, therefore they built japanese skill so as to be able to follow the classes. After 2 years of masters, they graduate and have a good (very good) japanese communication skills. Those who got into masters through an easier way, usually graduate and are a bit better than the aforementioned PhD students.

3) Those who came for Bachelors: these are usualy the best nihon-go speakers since they had 4 years of classes, made many friends and had time to participate in many activities. So, at the end, most of them have very good communication skills. However, if you give them a newspaper to read, most of them won't be able to do it. They might get parts of it but won't probably understand the details.

The problem of SPI（適性検査） is that it is not an exam for foreigners. As I mentioned in my previous post, it is made by japanese to japanese people. So you will be given short texts in japanese and the questions are prepared in a way to trick native speakers. So, even the ones who do understand 100% percent of the text are tricked.

Don't expect that just living here during uni years will make your skills almost as good as the ones of natives. It will not, unless you really put lot's of effort into that. And I really advice you to do so.

My advices are:

1) if you are really concerned about the quality of the university, I would suggest you to stay in europe. I don't mean the knowledge you will have after graduating cuz it depends on the person and how much effort he/she puts on studying during the uni. Universities are just facilitators. They give you lot's of info and show you the way to get even more, but if you can do it by your self without much input from uni, then you should be alright.

2) If you decide upon doing bachelors in Japan, put lots of effort (and I really mean a lot!) into learning the language. Not only verbaly communicating or writing simple e-mails to your friends, but I mean learning how to read newspapers and magazines and the sorts.

One problem is that 99% percent of the ones who come to Japan come with that in mind.... But at a certain point they give up. Don't join this group. Keep studying kanji on a daily basis because that is the only way to improve your reading skills.

3) And enjoy japan, cuz probably that is the part which is attracting you most to Japan. God knows what "fun" things your friends are reporting to you. ;) Enjoy but don't swerve from studying as many do!

Wish you all the best!

PS: I didn't mean that you should go to a national university just to be called smart by people on the streets. Ntional universities have a good reputation here and good reputation opens doors during job hunting.

PS2: I think you will need entrance exam whichever university you choose, regardless if it is national or private. And besides, I think the entrance exam won't be any especial exam for foreigners. I think it will be the same as the japanese student take. You should inform yourself about that. Contact the universities beforehand. If it a special exam, I guess you won't have problems... It it is a regular exam, then things get a bit though.

To Uco:

So you skipped classes and had your friends sign your attendency card? Shame on you!=)
Well, I hadn't looked at it the way you did. Maybe you do learn to think for yourself with all the free time and the reports and all, so maybe you do have a valid point there.

Wow, so you've actually lived in the US eh, pretty cool. As for my english, i think nowadays, europeans in general speak quite a lot of english, some more than others of course. But perhaps i just got exposed to english at a very young age, and maybe that's what got the ball rolling. Unfortunately, i still make silly mistakes that make me sound kind of unnatural, but i do my best still:)

To Me:

Thanks for your advice.

About that SPI exam, i think i sortof understand what kind of test it is. But you know, just because you're not japanese shouldn't mean that you can't beat them! I'll explain myself. With this 'tricking' you talk about, i believe it's the kind of questions you would ask to test students' logic in some sort of way, right? In which case, if a foreigner - who also takes that test (assuming he is almost as good as natives language wise) - is better than the average student at thinking 'logically', he would probably be able to beat them. Don't you think?

Yeah i'm sure you'd have to put a lot of effort into becoming really really good at japanese. But on the other hand, native japanese speakers themselves aren't perfect at their own language either. That counts for any population in the world. For example, you may be a native english speaker, but that doesn't mean that you master the english language, right? You do speak it fluently because it's your mother tongue, but i think really 'mastering' a language would only be something that specially trained language instructors would be (although that too isn't a real guarantee)

Well, from the previous posts you may already have noticed that i am quite concerned with a good quality education. And you know what, i haven't said this on the forum until now, but my parents have also given me the chance to study abroad in another country as well, namely canada! We've checked out a few private universities there, and it really seemed like a lot of fun. But here's my dilemma: If i want to go for quality education, i would pick canada. However, if i want to go for the challenge of a lifetime, with all sorts of adventures, i would pick japan. Not that canada isn't challenging, but i just find japan a lot more challenging. It's not an easy choice to make. And i also realize that going to japan will mean having to make a lot more efforts in terms of learning the language than i would if i went to canada.

About those entrance exams, yes of course i know every uni has an entrance exam, but my point was that i prefer private universities over national universities because some private unis (like the one i was thinking of applying for) just has a japanese test as an entrance exam, whereas with national universities you would have to take the ryugaku shiken, including sciences, math, japan and the world and the like (stuff that japanese students would take as well). And that's what i prefer to avoid if i can.

To D,

Just some more details about the SPI test.

It is not only composed of logic questions. It has mainly 3 sections. 1) Japanese language (for japanese people!) that covers reading short texts and answering the tricky questions (that is the though part!). 2) Logical part where the questions are not a big deal but the problem is to understand and answer them in japanese within more or less 20 seconds/quetion. 3) personality test, which has no right or wrong answer. It is just for the company to evaluate your character/personality. So there will be like 60 multiple choice questions that if you should fail to understand the meaning, you face the following problem: a) leaving it blank and passing the impression that you preffered to refrain from telling them the truth. b) choosing one answer randomly and end up accquiring a "random" personality. Sometimes you can use common sense to answer those, many times there are too many non understood possibilities that coomon sense just can't be effectively applied.

Well, it is not my intention to throw cold water on your plans but I think it is important to show you the real picture of learning japanese language and applying for a job here. Of course, as I mentioned in previous posts, you might not need to take SPI test depending on which compnay you apply. However, as a general rule, most of japanese companies ask for that. I don't know if it depends on the field or not... That is something you can try to figure out if you have interest.

One more thing: being realistic (assuming you have no or almost no knowledge of the language), 4 years in Japan won't put you on "almost the same level" of the japanese people. If you do your regular studying, it will provide you with a satisfactory level and you will be able to engage in conversation with people (even discuss more profound things), but your vocabulary will be limited.

The only and only way to overcome this is by studying kanjis a lot. And gotta be tenacious on that. Otherwise you can't read, therefore your intake of words is way smaller than when you study a language based in alphabet.

Well, you will see what I am talking about whenever you start studying the language (if you haven't started yet). And don't let the japanese grammar mislead you, cuz that is very easy and you can pick it up without much of problem.

Study hard! It will be worthy and I recomend it! :)

Take care!

To Me:

So that SPI sure is something huh. Thanks for the detailed explanations. Have you ever taken it?

As for my language skills, don't worry. I know all the stuff about kanji. Yes, tey can be very pesky and annoying, but useful at the same time if you know their meaning without knowing how it's pronounced. In fact, here is something I wrote to a friend just yesterday (i wrote it just before going to bed, so it probably contains some mistakes):

こんちは

違うよ、中央大学に行ったのはホーストの息子だったよ。俺はペンをもらっただけ
もう５年前なのに今でも大事にしてきました＾＾

大学のこといろいろ教えてくれてありがとう。実はすでにそのことについて結穀ｲべたよ。留学試験のことやそれぞれの大学の条件。でもね、中央大学ってさ、私立大学じゃないよね？私立じゃないから留学試験、つまり、ゆきが言ったとおり、そういう大学に垂ｵ込みたい外国人として数学やいろんな学科を受けることになってるからこそ俺はそういう大学に行きたくないんだよ。そんなに頭よくないし。入学試験としては日本語の試験だけ受けなきゃいけない私立大学に行きたい。

んで、今の考えてるのは京都における龍谷大学ってところだよ。そこでは楽に入学できるために外国人向きの日本語コース（日本語ばかりか、いろんな学科もあるらしい）がある。そのコースが終わったら（一年後）推選をもらって簡単に大学入れることがあるよ。勉強したいこととして、まぁ、できれば国際文化を勉強してみたいな。
先日垂ｵ込み送ってもらったけど、読んでみたら京都の生活ってなかなか高いとか！だって毎月１０万円が必要らしいんだ。でもそれは自分のライフスタイルのよって違うじゃない？東京だといくらかかるの？

あとは、その大学だと、日本語迫ﾍ試験の２級が必要。俺はヒマなときに一級と二級の文法を練習したりしてるよ。難しいけどね。
学生ビザの問題もあるけどね。そういうビザで日本に行ったことあるから二度と取れるかどうか

I believe my japanese is ok, but i need to make more efforts if i want to study there, i know that much.

D,

All my advices so far where based upon the guess that you had no education at all in japanese language and few knowledge about Japan (that is the impression I got by reading your posts).

Now you have shown me a totally different scenario. You are already studying based on material for 一級 and 二級, you have japanese friend(s), thus I assume you know much more than you let us know through your posts.

Forget about most of what I said in previous posts, than. All of them is true for the ones who came to Japan without no previous knowledge (like me and 99% of the foreigners), that is why I spent time on writing about details regarding studying the language and etc.

For you it will be a very different story, I don't see you having much challenge in school and if you keep studying japanese and puting emphasys on kanji during your undergraduate course in Japan (believe me you will have plenty of time to do it!) you should have no problem to reach a level enabling you to read journals without any help from dictionary and any difficulty. Once reaching that level, SPI becomes something you should not worry at all.

Last, 「入学試験としては日本語の試験だけ受けなきゃいけない私立大学に行きたい」 makes me think (differently from your previous posts) that you are not very much concerned about the quality of the education you will be receiving. No tip-top school will have just a japanese proeficiency test as the entrance exam.

Take care!

One thing not mentioned on this post is the assumption that university = good education. A good education means having a very broad knowledge of many subjects, most of them not taught in universities or barely. Most University students only specialize in a few subjects and are ignorant of so many others! I went to "school" from the age of 3--I was reading newspapers headlines before going to primary school- until I was 24. I did learn a lot in school, from world history/ geography, several foreign languages, philosophy (before I was 18) to advanced mathematics (20 hrs per week)after high school. But my formal studies only gave me a broad outline. I learned lots more on my own because I was a voracious reader and was lucky to know many older people with a great knowledge of life. When I first started working in my present job, in North America -I am from Europe--I didn't use much of what I learned in "school" but used the empirical knowledge I got from actually living from a young age in the same work environment (our home was within my parents workplace and we ate, watched TV, played games etc. with the clients and the staff).