Ruined friendship with JP friend

I don't see where people are coming from trying to apply dating rules here when they are not a couple- in this situation, if one person were "responsible" for the bill I would say it would be her, as it is polite to treat a friend who has come to your country as a welcome. If a male pen pal were visiting me I would certainly not feel odd about taking him out. It would also be equally acceptable to split, or for him to pay as a thank you for me showing him around, but there is not a set rule for this situation, it depends on how you think of it.

OP, I think she over-reacted. You made a mistake and apologized, and she is trying to make it more than it is. I think she probably felt embarrassed and mad at herself for not explaining properly when she felt it was her responsibility and then turned it to be mad at you. A person who is kind and understanding of those visiting a foreign culture would see that it was a silly mistake and not a big deal (I'm sure you weren't out at some huge overly expensive lunch that would have hurt her bank account badly.) You've done all you can and unless she accepts your apology you have to move on.

Hold up, Guy…

Again there seem to be a clash of culture difference here. I know your saying “No there not” and clearly they are like in many others question on here.

What “question-guest” did was not wrong; he paid the full bill for both pen pals before the incident with the last pen pal. I would like to know what country you are from Ken and XYZ. For mist of us, taking a girl out for the first time on a date or none date, the man would normally pay all the bills; it’s called being a “Gentleman.”

If she did want him to pay the entire bill, she should have spoke up and said “NO” or Sorry but will pay half also. It’s not his fault she feels ashamed or embarrassed. It wasn’t his attention.

Second, the reason why I said “dating rules” it’s because when you take a girl out for the first time, you have to pay unless she said she will pay her half of the bill no she wont feel obliged, that why I said that. When she asks him to leave, he would have paid the bill and then leave, I’m still can’t understand how you forgot to pay the bill that all.

@Vita Thank you, you make a very interesting point when it come to having good “manner.” From your view “if one person were "responsible" for the bill I would say it would be her, as it is polite to treat a friend who has come to your country as a welcome.” But because the pen pal was a girl and not a guy I said remember the dating rule. I agree with you 100% Vita it would have been common courtesy on her part to pay, but because technically the other reason why he went to Japan it to visit his pen pals and it was a girl and not a guy or friend he have met before where I left he should have paid..

Men have to pay the bill on the first date? Sorry, I thought we were equal.

Guess not.

I'm a Japanese woman.

It was common man pay restaurant for woman before in Japan.
But today it's case by case here.
Of course friends should pay each other.
But sometimes we treat friends in Japan.
When i met my penpals, i pay all in the restaurant.
But i told them it's my treat, so you don't have to pay.

So i don't know why she tell you to wait her outside.
It's not your mistake.
It's her mistake.
Of course your mistake was not to ask her about payment.
But it's bad we Japanese won't to tell direct.

If she still don't reply.
You should give her up.
You look good parson.
It's good experience for you.

I have special penpals, if they will come to Japan, i want to treat for them with my pleasure.
It's my omotenashi.
I just wanted to them enjoy their stay in Japan.

@Macoj:

Thank you for your advice.

I'm sorry, I didn't write clearly in my first post. She didn't exactly tell me to wait outside, but we agreed that I wait outside. I added a comment where I explain in detail.

So it's not her fault if I went outside.



I think she knew that I was not a mingy person. Because, before we had lunch in the restaurant, she offered me a 100 Yen coin to pay for the bus (as I had only bills, no coins) and I was kinda embarrassed that she offered me to pay for the bus, I insisted that I could pay for 100 Yen but she was kind and insisted to give me the coin. I was very thankful.
You can imagine that, if I feel embarrassed when someone gives me 100 Yen, what would it be if someone paid for my lunch ?!

So it's hard for me to imagine that she could have thought that I was a mingy person.
I think she was aware that it was a forgetfulness from me. Because she wrote me later by mail (after I apologized) that she understood it was not my intention.

I think, she considered that it was too aggressive from her to ask me in her recent mails about what happened in the restaurant.
So maybe the think that we won't be able to stay friends after she asked me this.
Whereas I would never break a friendship if a friend asked me this kind of questions. I've had by far more serious discussions with my friends, but we are used to, it's not a big deal.
Maybe my penpal was not used to situations like that. Too bad, but I have to move on.

if you go out without paying, it means you showed you had no intention to pay the bill. you left her as a hostage for payment.
to prevent this stupidness, a person who first go out, may pay everything and collect individual money before or after the payment.

It is very common that women go to the rest room just before leaving the restaurant. in that case, very often, they say "wait for me outside."

it was your mistake that you did not ask the payment when you met her at the outside of the restaurant. it is very common that a person, who did not pay it, ask "how much should I pay ?". since you did not ask her, you showed you had no intention to pay it.
since your intention is so clear, she may not ask any more. your action was very impolite.

if you pay everything when you go out, I am very sure that she will ask you "How much should I pay ?"

@ Ken

I think that the OP has already explained WHY he made the mistake and has clearly shown that he regretted what happened as soon as he realized his error.

Your responses on this thread are too dogmatic, I feel and too be honest, not particularly helpful. The OP KNOWS he made a mistake but as he has already explained, it was an innocent mistake that he has tried to rectify.

Your responses are similar to the woman in question; you refuse to accept that sometimes mistakes happen and see this as a black and white issue where the OP did wrong and should not be shown any understanding. I can only hope that should you make any innocent mistakes yourself in life, that you are shown a little more understanding...

a single mistake is enough to break human relationship.
their relationship was so fragile, because it was not so intimate.
since man-woman relationship is so unstable and fragile, I think a man may pay everything or pay more than a woman.

I speculate that he has explained too much. that would make an adverse effect.(too much explanation will be an excuse.) a sincere apology(no explanation and no excuse) was better. she already has concluded it is over. no way to do it. 逃した魚は大きい。

Even being nervous, i can't even imagine how you can go to the restaurant and not think about the bill.

@ ".."

Unfortunately it happened. Otherwise I wouldn't have post this story here.




Although I'm willing to follow your advice and trying to move on, I can't help regreting that I will not hear any more from a friend/penpal whom I exchanged for a long time with.
She was about to have soon very important exams for her studies, we had been discussing about our studies many times.


I am wondering if it would be a good idea to send her a small mail later this year, asking from her news, did she succeed in her projects.
It is said that time heals, however I'm afraid in this case she will just be more and more skeptical about fixing our lost friendship as time passes.

I know it's almost impossible we become friends again but would it be too impolite to ask news?

question-guest
Despite your disclaimed 'platonic' friend/penpal-ship,you still have a lingering (romantic?) interestin this particular lady.
Perhaps you were mesmerised by her charms at that lunch meet(date?) that you totally forgot about setting the bill;-) ?

No use moaning/groaning over spilt miso soup.
You can't undo the past.
Lesson (psychically painful) learnt
Mpve on

I know that you regret the situation, but not letting things go and moving on is the worst thing that you can do. You end up making a nuisance of yourself and leaving an even more bitter taste in your mouth.

Mistakes happen.

Friends come and go.

There's nothing that you can do about it so let it go. If you still miss the friendship later, you can try messaging her out of the blue 6 months to a year down the line when feelings and irritations aren't so raw.

But for the moment, my advice is to respect her wishes.

Why don't you mail her some gift that is worth that part of the bill? Probably she will be surprised and forgive you.

@Yet-Another:

No, "Yet-Another". I think it may be the feeling that my posts give, but it's not about love at all.
Just imagine that you brutally lose a friend, in this case you can easily imagine what it feels like. Sorry if I let you think there was love involved.


@amefuri:
I'm not going to harass her, and move on.
But I thought that indeed, from 6 months to a year sending a mail is the least a (former) friend can do.



@BehindBlackeyes:
Unfortunately I don't know where my penpal lives so I cannot send her any money or present.





I don't expect our friendship to be fixed. I know that she will not feel ok about talking to me again. And so do I.
But I think that sending a last small mail long time after, would be the least I can do, and then we can both move on with dignity.

I mean everything ended so brutally, she didn't reply to my mail where I told her I have to pay her back. And I know it would be useless to send more mails, she just won't reply.

It is a rough way to say goodbye.
I just wanna say goodbye with a more friendly way.

Here's my two-cents worth!!
Have you considered she may have used this as an excuse to cut the contact? Made a bigger deal out of it because she wanted some reason to end it?

I'd just get on with life, maybe look for a new penpal if thats what you want, then as you say drop her a light chatty email in 6 months time and see what the response is (if any).

Life is too short to keep pondering this one, and blaming yourself. Take care.

I am sorry to hear what happened. I understand, when you are speaking in a foreign language you get nervous and you cannot act like yourself and I know that is why you couldn't do what you'd normally do.

Unfortunately, as a Japanese woman, I see where she is coming from. It is too late because what she wanted was you to grab the bill and say "I'll take care of it" or at least you pay her back the moment she came out of the restaurant.

Don't bother trying to send her gifts, sending her gifts would only piss her off more and she has already labeled you as a man who is okay to make a girl pay for his meal. Lots of Japanese women hold a grudge like crazy and it is super annoying. (I am like that too myself)

I truly believe that you are such a nice man and you deserve a friend who is more relaxed and more forgiving.

@LoveJapan:

Keeping contact with penpals is hard, after meeting and returning home. You know that you may never meet these people again, and, if you have an opportunity to meet later, it would be in a very long time.

As it is hard enough to keep contact with penpals whom you got along pretty well with, it must be almost impossible to keep contact with penpals whom things didn't go really well, like it happened with this penpal.

So, who knows, maybe she is cutting off contact because it didn't work well enough to stay good friends, and it's too hard to fix a friendship online.



@Nana:
Thank you for your advice. I'm sorry that these cultural differences have a negative impact on the strenght of my friendship.

If one day you meet a penpal who forgets to pay for the bill, maybe you will recall my post here, and,... not hold a grudge against him/her ?
:)

Weel, the same kind of story happened to me when I was still a student, but with a japanese girlfriend.

I mean, I was always paying for two at the beginning, but after a while she offered to pay sometimes. In my country, this is quite common, and that shows that people are interested in each other and that the girl is not just a prostitute behind a princess face.

After two months we know each other we went on a hollyday trip together.
But you know, with my gaijin mastercard withdrawals were limited each week, and since I always paid more than the half of eveything (like ski ticket, museum, icecream...) I run out of money and asked her to help me to pay the train ticket.

Bloody hell what I've done?! She was suddenly saying to me she wasn't my wallet, that she had paid sometimes... A few weeks later we just break. It was like I was hanging out with someone I didn't know.

Well, most of Japanese girls (the one who hadn't studied or lived abroad) are like this. They don't speak their mind, keep details for her, avoid any arrangement or compromition... Mainly because they have an false image of westerners and go out with them just to give it a try, but nothing serious.