Right to left books in Japanese

Hi, I wanted to ask, if there was no right to left writing in Japanese, would books/magazines still have been right to left?

I've noticed more and more Japanese people saying that books are right to left becuase it's more comfortable to shelve pages left-to-right for right-handed people. So I'm wondering, let's imagine that the top-to-bottom writing wouldn't have been existed. How they might act in this situation? It is not so comfortable to read only left to right and then turn to the left instead to the right...

But as I said, Japanese love comfort.

I do not fully understand your question, but generally books with text printed vertically open from right, while those with text printed horizontally open from left (same as books in English).
Vertical writing start from top to bottom, and the line goes from right to left. Thus opening pages from the right is the most practical/comfortable.
Hope this replies to your question.

Yes I know, but the question here is, if there WAS NO right to left writing, would they still use right-to-left books? Because it's more comfortable to shelve pages with these books. (for right-handed)

if there WAS NO right to left writing, would they still use right-to-left books

Probably not, considering Japanese magazines and books that are printed left to right also read left to right. The other way around would be incredibly awkward to read, and much more difficult than shelving left to right (which is already a dubious advantage in my opinion).

Yes, but I've seen many right to left magazines, like Corocoro for example, and they don't use the right to left writing so much, there are many one or two sentences that are written right to left, but MOST of the pages' sentences are left to right.

So it's still difficult. That's why I'm not sure if they would abandon the right to left books, even if tategaki was never existed.

Yes, but I've seen many right to left magazines, like Corocoro for example, and they don't use the right to left writing so much, there are many one or two sentences that are written right to left, but MOST of the pages' sentences are left to right.

You should look at other type of magazines, not comics, you'll find almost all pages shows vertical writing (tategaki).
Manga is a bit special when it comes to writing system.

Almost all literature books are tategaki thus books open from right.
As I explained earlier, the lines of vertical writings go from right to left.

Yes, but I've seen many right to left magazines, like Corocoro for example, and they don't use the right to left writing so much, there are many one or two sentences that are written right to left, but MOST of the pages' sentences are left to right.

And I'd have to say that those always feel somewhat awkward/unnatural to browse through.

So it's still difficult. That's why I'm not sure if they would abandon the right to left books, even if tategaki was never existed.

Yes, this is all theoretical so there probably isn't any right answer. Also, I don't think you can talk of books "abandoning" right to left if we are discussing a world that develops independently of right to left writing. Whatever they ended up being would be the norm.

I see.

But still, why did they let this issue to protrude so much? I mean, they still write and think from left to right almost all along. So I can't understand how for example, a little child that reads only from left to right, whether it is on the computer (where you can barely find tategaki) or left to right books, should get used to it?

The writings in yokogaki is a bit hard to read, even in digital books.
And the national language learning is always in tategaki.

@oren
I do not understand why you believe that tategaki is obsolite. All the text books used at school are printed in tategaki except certain subjects such as history, math and science where Arabic numbers are used , almost all the literature books and other books (again except certain field where Arabic numbers are much used or those on foreign languages) are printed in tategaki.

What you see seems to be just Japanese on internet where it is difficult to make tategaki layout and manga/comics - both are exceptional in the whole publication in Japanese language.
Have you ever been to a bookshop handling large number of books in a wide range? I'm sure just one visit and see all the books with your own eyes would give you more accurate idea. :)

@magonote

I understand that most of the books are tategaki in Japan. But I can't understand how do Japanese people normally think about things.

magonote, look at this corocoro page for example-
http://srv2.jpg.co.il/9/51cbe424b0315.jpg

let's imagine that we'll randomlly give this page to a Japanese teenager. Most of these pages are written left to right, with maybe 2-3 sentences in tategaki, but right page is 8, and the left is 9. Will the teenager understand, (without seeing the pages' number) that this is a right-to-left magazine? will he shelve the next page to the right (like english, with the left hand) or to the left?

He read from right to left.
If he feels like something is wrong, he notices that's written in reverse direction.

I have never heard young Japanese is confused to read Japanese books...

BTW, that page is clearly designed from right to left. If it's in English, that degign will vary.

let's imagine that we'll randomlly give this page to a Japanese teenager. Most of these pages are written left to right, with maybe 2-3 sentences in tategaki, but right page is 8, and the left is 9. Will the teenager understand, (without seeing the pages' number) that this is a right-to-left magazine?

Given a completely random page of text, a native Japanese reader should have no trouble recognizing which way the page is supposed to be read. In most cases the context clues will be immediately obvious. This is something that gets hardcored into your brain by virtue of it being a common occurrence in everyday Japanese life.

will he shelve the next page to the right (like english, with the left hand) or to the left?

Neither, as a teenager he'll surely just toss it on the floor when done ;)

On a related note, the manga (which are titled vertically) at the last bookstore I visited were shelved from left to right.

@ajapaneseboy

Well I read right to left (my native language) and I don't think this Corocoro page is designed right to left other than being 8 as the right page and 9 as the left page.

Besides, isn't it a bit confusing to read left to right starting on the right page, and not from the left page? (and I'm not talking about tategaki)

http://srv2.jpg.co.il/9/51cbe424b0315.jpg
For example, a part that I can explain even in my poor English...
If that page is translated word for word,
you can see a girl named PANJII at the left and she is introduced as "BIORA's sister".
Who is BIORA? She is at the right of PANJII.
The editor expects the readers read from right to left.

BTW, I have heard even on a vending machine in Japan, the seller place the drink that they want to sell at right.

Oren,

First of all, Corocoro Comic is a right to left magazine, because the major contents, which are the manga, is written vertically from right to left, just as all manga are.

As for your example, pages 8 and 9, that's a special page which is something like an ad. But still, the basic information on those pages is written vertically (hence right to left). Meanwhile, the side information is written horizontally (hence left to right). This layout was probably intentional. At a glance, the readers can sense the difference between the main stuff and the side stuff.

Or, okay, perhaps "main/side" isn't the correct way to express it. The story-line-y stuff are written vertically and for more details you read the horizontal stuff.

On a side note, however, the older generations are less comfortable reading pages like these. For example, people currently 80 years old or older prefer to read vertical writings over horizontal writings. People in their 70s are totally comfortable with both, and yet, when they read manga as dramatic as the ones in Corocoro, they have trouble finding which way to go. They are more used to the so-called 4-koma-manga like the ones you see on the newspapers, but are often puzzled with action-type manga for teens.

And nowadays, school text books' layout is very much like manga magazines. Just on one page, information is scattered here and there, vertically and horizontally. It wasn't like this 30 years ago. Text books used to have plain writing written on it, and perhaps there was one or two topics or graphs on the corner. Nowadays, a character may be talking into a "fukidashi" bubble about history heroes, while 3 different colors divide the page into random boxes.

So what I'm saying is that, even in the past few decades, the Japanese way of comprehending the layouts has changed dramatically.

By the way...

I've noticed more and more Japanese people saying that books are right to left because it's more comfortable to shelve pages left-to-right for right-handed people.

Being Japanese for all the 51 years of my life, this is the first time I've heard of this theory. However, writing from right to left had always been practical for those writing symbols of Chinese origin, because writing was done holding a brush with your hand and elbow up in the air. On the other hand, in Europe, writing was done with your wrist touching the ink on the paper, so it was better to write from left to right avoiding the ink to smear.

Uco, Thanks for the answers!