Miyamoto Musashi: kenjutsu dan?

Hi.

which ken-jutsu dan had Miyamoto Musashi??? I was looking all around the inet, but can't find it. maybe someone can tell me something about it?

Thanks a lot.

It is said that Musashi Miyamoto was the strongest samurai in 1600's.
He was 13 years old when he fought a duel for the first time.
It is surprising that he won more than 60 duels without any loss.
The fight with Kojiro Sasaki in Ganryujima island is really popular, which has made many films, TV programs, books, and tales.
He wrote a instruction guide - Gorinsho, which explained swordsmanship and tactics he had acquired through his life.

thanx, but all this story I know, I found it on the net, but You didn't answer my question :(
So, what about Miyamoto Musashi dans??? anybody?!?
I need this info very very much.

If your question was "which dan did Musashi have?" --- the answer is, he did not have any dan (=class).

Current martial arts such as Karate, Judo, Kendo, Aikido etc do have "kyu" and "dan" system but that was invented after Meiji era (about 100 years ago). Until then most kenjutsu dojo in Edo-jidai had different system. The names are various, but typical ones are : "shoden (first level)" "chuden(middle level)" "ouden(upper level)" "mokuroku" and "menkyo" (=mastered).

Miyamoto Musashi did not learn from anyone in his life. In his era (end of Muromachi- Azuchi Momoyama - early Edo jidai) it was not rare for warriors to learn how to use swords at actual duels and war experiences.
In addition, he finally created his own art Niten-Ichiryu. Since he is the founder, there's no one who can give Dan of that art to himself.

Therefore, again he did not have any Dan nor Kyu.
Could this be an answer to your question?

Thanx, Shinnosuke, billion times ;)
yes, it can be an answer.

thanx a lot one more time.


kentou!
sayonara.

Musashi was also known for fighting with dirty tricks, so he wasn't that honorable in my opinion. That's what i heard. Can someone please comment on that?

I'm currently reading the manga Vagabond and is really good. I can't wait until Miyamoto and Kojiro duel for the first time.

You need to understand the context of his time compared ours. In those days a duel or battle meant life or death. To live is to win to lose is to die. Too many of us Gaijins over dramatise the concept of 'honour'... (often for our own self indulgence). You only have to watch 'The Last Samurai' to understand this. Musahi was a strategist not only a swordsman. We need to understand that prior to the peace time created by the shogunate, swordsmanship was kenjutsu(jutsu=technique)...during peacetime and beyond this evolved into kendo (Do = The Way) which lead to the development of modern day budo (warrior code) which although based on the traditions of past, is very different to what the kendoka of today practice.

Tony, thanks for the insight of the evolution of kenjutsu. I know what you meant by you live by the sword you die by the sword, since it has been said that the soul of the samurai is his sword. (well to some of them, not all of them). Its kill or be killed. My favorite group of samurai were the Shinsengumi, and they weren't exactly known for being honorable if i might say. The fought as you said, by stratgies, even if one of the ten(if i remember correctly there were ten) division had to ganp up against one sumarai in order to win.

To answer your question the Dan-I system is relatively new. Classical budo systems do not use Dan.

Musashi handed his ryu down like a full cup to three students. In turn most experienced of these continued the tradition. For some years now the title Soke has been used for each successive head.

some where i have heard that musashi was carrying wooden imitations of swords - two of them actually. i have read a "book of five rings" but that was a long time ago, and i can recal this thing about swords. can anyone reminde me? thanks
hello from belgrade

The Dan-I ranking system is a modern inovation. They had no such thing in the 1600's A quick bit of googling will bring you results.

Musashi gave certification to three students. This is still the tradition to this day.

The "wooden swords" Mushashi was reputed to have used were called bokken (I've also seen it as "bokuto" in an old American encyclopedia).

Musashi claimed they were better than metal swords in actual combat, according to somewhere else I read.

D.

the only anwser to any question,is not how or why a man lived,but the fact his name lives on,to be honoured with legand and even untruths,is timeless.we only talk of great people forever,thats the wonder of rememberance,eternity.

what does a mans dan matter? you could study the martial way all your life and still be beatean by a child, miyamoto was 13 when he won his first battle from a man who probably studied longer than he.a pointless question.

I wouldn't even consider Musashi as a samurai. Most of his time he travelled Japan while working on his fencing. I'd say most of the time he was a ronin, and during that time he had his biggest successes.

Dirty tricks? Na, he was a brilliant strategist, once he came too late to a duel, another time he was lying in the grass seemingly asleep when his opponent came. Brilliant, something like that takes a lot of nerve.

And the whole deal with "honour" and "dishonourable"... Musashi was a child of the Sengoku period, honour didn't mean much there, just take Akechi who killed his boss Oda Nobunaga, and good old Tokugawa Ieyasu who wanted Japan for himself and thus moved against the supporters of his old alley and superior Toyotomi Hideyoshi (after his death of course), etc, etc, etc. The whole deal with "honour" really became popular during the Edo period, when samurai had time to sit down and write/read books like the Hagakure, etc. Before that there wasn't time for such a book, simply because there was a bit too much war going on in Japan.

Miyamoto Musashi was taught the principles of Kenjutsu from his father.
.

Musashi founded the art of Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu which is currently still taught today in Kitakyushu.

Read Musashi's Go Rin No Sho in regards to his stratedgy.