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Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/20 20:05
Hello all,

I read some of the other identification discussions and was very interested, so I thought I'd burden you again (sorry).

I was clearing the loft at the weekend and I found these two vases. I think they're Japanese, i hope that I've identified the language on the bottom correctly. I vaguely recall my great uncle being in the merchant navy in the far east, so that's probably how they came to be in the family's possession.

I don't think they're worth much (if anything) as they don't have a proper hallmark (it seems etched?) and while they are matching (in a mirror image kind of way), they're far from identical. But I rather like them and I'd like to know what the marking on the bottom means. So if anyone can translate, or even tell me more about their history, or point me to somewhere I can find out more, I would be grateful

I created a small photo bucket gallery:
http://s50.photobucket.com/user/drichardson69uk/library/Japanese%20vase

Many thanks!
by CrazierDave  

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/23 11:22
Hi

Link did not load. Maybe its just me.

As for marks on the bottom. Curiously some of the older and more rare [and valueable] vases do not have markings at all. Early Canton for example. As for ''matching'' the designs from one to another. If they were early and not mass produced and were hand painted, then you would expect that there would not be a perfect match.
Things are not always what they seem.

There was a small cup found at a yard sale, kept in a closet for years and later turned out to be early chinese, and worth a fortune. So you never know

Try and refresh the picture.

by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/23 17:00
The link caused some problems on my computer, so I was only able to get a very quick glance at the image, but the writings did not look right to me. They seemed like someone with no knowledge of Chinese characters (which are also used by us here in Japan) imitated them. I thought the drawings were nice though.
by Uco rate this post as useful

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/23 19:46
My apologies about the photos - I should have linked directly to them rather than the collection.

Base markings: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/drichardson69uk/Japanese%20vase...

View 1: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/drichardson69uk/Japanese%20vase...

View 2: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/drichardson69uk/Japanese%20vase...

After a lot of googling I found some images of vases in a similar style that pointed to these actually being Chinese from the late 19th century. Obviously I'm no expert though. I'd love them to be very valuable, but I suspect not lol
by CrazierDave rate this post as useful

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/24 00:27
OK better shots.

These are nice vases !

First I would agree with my friend UCO. The markings on the base are very strange. So one would ask. Why go to all of the trouble to make these vases and then use some ''hack'' calligraphy. These is something more to that part.

Next, the scenes, clothing horses ect seem very Chinese to me not Japanese. Thats ok, good to know.

Here is what really struck me. The crazing [ cracking] those fine small lines on the enamel are delibarate. They are indicative of a high refined process which is in contrast to the somewhat cruder depictions of the people in battle. Almost as if the vases were done earlier and the paintings were done later. I realize this does not make total sense but thats what I got. Also the square outline on the bottom looks ''forced'' and not refined in keeping with the rest of the peice.

Can we assume that these vases came back from Asia some years ago ? Provanance is important, especially now that China is ''knocking off'' everything it can, including swords.

These are nice, I would recommend you follow up with an Asian expert to try and nail it down furthur. Also I see there touching in the photos , no no, that might crack them.

If you transport them wrap them first in acid free newsprint , never use newspaper, then bubble wrap, and watch extremes in temperature.

Ok value. You will find that museums do not like [or will not] appraise or guess at value. Thats beneath them. Your local antique shop might help but I rather doubt it. One measure of value is what it can be insured for. But finding a really qualified appraisal will be tough. This is a whole field into itself.
If I were to guess, I might think that this pair could be in the $ 1600
to $ 2200 range. Only a guess, and maybe a wild one. You would have to look at comparable prices at auction, and that will be a task. I would love to know what you find out. Good Luck.





by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/24 01:11
Thanks for responding.

Yes they are rather handsome, aren't they? :-)

I took a photo of the marking on the base of the other one, but I'm not sure it's going to solve the mystery

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/drichardson69uk/Japanese%20vase...

As for provenance, they've been in the loft for the last 30 years or so. They would have come from my late great aunt's estate - I recall helping my father with the house clearance in the mid 80s, and everything there was old even then. I have a vague recollection that her husband was in the merchant navy between the wars, so he would have got these in the 1920s or early 1930s - there was other memorabilia from the far east too, but that went to other family members. But in any case these vases have definitely been in the family for a great many decades, though I have nothing in writing to confirm this.

Point taken on not letting the vases touch. I won't do it again!

After a lot of searching I did find these items which are remarkably similar (no price though)

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/asian-art-furniture/ceramics/late-19...

I guess more research is in order to get a valuation. I did consider valuemystuff.com but have seen mixed reviews.



by CrazierDave rate this post as useful

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/25 01:36
Good Job !

I think you found the comparison pair. Too bad they did
not give the sale price. Keep digging !! The vases were offered from a company [ NY ?] you might contact them directly.

OK...I was surprised to see the prices on some of the other pieces offered. My ''gustimate'' may be way off. Looks like these could go to the 5 figure range. If you can find out what they sold for you can pretty much rely on that as a market price. You may get lucky and find a pair on E bay.

We now now that there are a least 2 pair out there. So there are likely more.

I realie that price is only one factor but personally I think its fair to use or know price as a benchmark of desireability.

Your history now confirms that these are indeed 19th Chinese Vases, worth perhaps in excess of $ 10,000 US

Oh and dont let the cat rub against them. I lost a nice rose medalion vase that way . A thousand peices... Humpty Dumpty
I gave the pieces to a friend who incorporated them into jewelry

Keep digging..were close.
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Help identifying (another) vase? 2017/2/25 03:05
Dave

There is an auction house in my area, they are very good with asian antiques.

Eldreds Co Inc
East Dennis Massachusetts

(508) 385-3116

www.eldreds.com

give them a buzz or online, they are very helpful. I have worked with them in the past.
I would send them the pix and see what they say.

Ok weird advise dept
In the past I have taken Asian calligraphy to our local Chinese Restaurant. Supriseingly they hae been helpful and more or less spot on.
Try the Gyoza....
by Peter (guest) rate this post as useful

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