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Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/13 05:32
Hello there,

since this is my first post I'll introduce myself. If anyone feels like, I'd be glad if someone would look over it and point out possible mistakes/bad style. I'll also provide a translation with what I intendet to say.

Ž„‚́A“ρ\ŒάΞA“ƍ‘‚ŏZ‚ρ‚Ε‚’‚ά‚·Bƒhƒ‰ƒ€‚Ε‚ΝŽ„‚̐lΆ‚Ι•s’f‚ΜŽ–‚Ε‚ ‚θ‚ά‚΅‚Δ–ˆ“ϊ‰½ŽžŠΤ‚Ι—ϋK‚΅‚Δ‚’‚ά‚·BS‚ͺFX‚Θ‰ΉŠy‚Ι‘ε‚Α‚‚ηAƒWƒƒƒY‚βƒfƒBƒXƒR‚©‚烁ƒ^ƒ‹’Κ‚Ά‚Δ‘S‚Δ‚π‘t‚Ε‚Δ‚’‚ά‚·B“ϊ–{‚Μ•Ά‰»ˆΘ‚Δ‚’‚Β‚ΰ°Α‚³‚κ‚Δ‚’‚ά‚΅‚āA“ϊ–{Œκ‚πŽl”N‘OŠw‚Ρ‚ά‚΅‚ΔŠJŽn‚΅‚ά‚΅‚½BŽΐ‚́A‚±‚̍‘‚Ι‚Ν‚Θ‚ρ‚ΔŒh‚’‚ŁA’N‚ΰˆ«‚’“ϊ–{Œκ‚Ζ”Ο‚ν‚΅‚Θ‚’—~‚΅‚’B‚Ε‚·‚©‚ηA“ϊ–{‚Ι–K‚Λ‚ιŽ–‚πJLPT1‚ΜƒŒƒxƒ‹‚Ι‘tŒχ‚΅‚čs‚«‚ά‚·BŽ„‚Μ•Χ‹­•ϋ–@‚ͺ–­‚Θ‚ΖŽv‚€‚©‚ΰ’m‚κ‚ά‚Ή‚ρ:@ν—pŠΏŽš•\‚π‹L‰―‚΅‚āA•·‚«Žζ‚θ—ϋK’†•·‚’‚½Ž–‚πŠΏŽš‚ΙŠ„‚θU‚Α‚Δ‚’‚ά‚·BŠΏŽš‚π‹L‰―‚©‚珑‚’‚ďo—ˆ‚ιŽ–‚ΝŽ„‚Ι‘εΨ‚ŁA‚»‚’‚Β‚π‚’‚Β‚ΰ”ό“IŒ©‚Δ‚’‚ά‚΅‚½BŽq‹Ÿ‚̍ ‚ŏ‘“Ή‚ͺ–£—Ή‚𔭏o‚΅‚ά‚΅‚½A‘“ϊ‚ΰB–ˆ“ϊ‚Q’Κ‚Ά‚Δ‚RŽžŠΤ‚ŐV‚΅‚’’PŒκ‚π‹L‚΅‚Đζ‚Μ ƒtƒ‰ƒbƒVƒ…ƒJ[ƒh ‚π•œK‚΅‚Δ‚’‚ά‚·B‘‚ά‚Ε‰pŒκ‚Μ’PŒκ–œ ƒtƒ‰ƒbƒVƒ…ƒJ[ƒh ‚πμ‚θ‚ά‚΅‚½A‚»‚κ‚Μ“ϊ–{Œκ‚Μ–|–σ‚π‚WŒŽŠΤŒγŽv‚’o‚΅‚ά‚΅‚½B(ƒXƒpƒXƒgƒŒƒyƒeƒBƒVƒ‡ƒ“§‚ΜΕŒγ‚ΜŠΫA‚»‚κ‚́@2-10-50-240“ϊ). ‚±‚κ‚ΝŽ„‚ΜŠχ‚ΜŽΚ^A•Mƒyƒ“‚Ζ–œ”N•M‚πŽg‚Α‚āA’N‚ΰ\‚ν‚Έ‚κ‚Ξ: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qZ7CJHFqt89K7nRNjSELpXLIwauTRaHM

‘‚ά‚Ε•·‚’‚½‚Ζ“Η‚ρ‚Ύ–}‚» ‚W‚O ƒp[ƒZƒ“ƒg‚π •ͺ‚©‚θ‚ά‚΅‚āA‚»‚κ‚ΕŽ„‚Μ“w—Ν‚ΙŽ©M‚ͺ‚ ‚θA‚΅‚©‚΅AŠˆ«Œκ‚Ν‚ΰ‚€­‚΅’x‚’B‚Ύ‚ͺAŽ„‚̏C–@‚ͺ‰pŒκ‚Ι—Η‚­o—ˆ‚ά‚΅‚½B‚ΰ‚Α‚Ζ“ϊ–{Œκ‚πŒΎ‚Α‚ΔŽž‚»‚κ‚Ν“–‘R–‚«γ‚°‚Δ‚ΖŽv‚’‚ά‚·B

Ž„‚̍D‚«‚ΘμŽ‚Ζ‚ΝAŽm˜Y ³@(‘‚́AƒIƒŠƒIƒ“‚π“Η‚ρ‚ŁA‘ςŽRŽ«“T‚πμ‚θ‚Θ‚³‚’),@‚Π‚λ‚έγŒ΄A—΄ˆκβ–{A‹vΞ χ, ‚»‚΅‚āA“–‘RA‹{θ xB

I hope this wasn't too bad.

Translation:
I'm 25 years old and live in Germany. The constant in my life have been drums, which I practice multiple hours each day, I have an open musical mind and play anything from Jazz over Disco all the way to Metal. I've always been fascinated by Japanese culture and started learning the language 4 years ago. In fact I have so much respect for this country I wouldn't want to bother anyone with horrorble Japanese, so I've coupled my time of visit with the moment I achieve JLPT1 level. My method of study is quite odd, you may think: I've been memorizing the Jouyou kanji table and try to allocate what I hear to kanji when doing listening practice. It's important for me to be able to write kanji from memory, I've always found them quite aesthethic, I remember being amazed seeing shodo as a child, as I am today. I spend around 2-3 hours a day writing down new vocabulary and reviewing previously written flashcards. By now I have produced around 10000 flash cards of english words, whose Japanese translation i could recite after 8 months without reviewing the individual card (the last step of my spaced repetition circle, which is 2-10-50-240 days). Here is a picture of my workspace using a fude and fountain pen if anyone is interested: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qZ7CJHFqt89K7nRNjSELpXLIwauTRaHM
I understand about 80% of what I hear or read by now, so I am quite confident with my endeavors, however I have to admit when it comes to the active part I'm quite slow, but this route of practice has proven to be working for english, so I think it will come naturally with Japanese aswell once I get to talk more frequently.

My favortie Japanese artists would be Masamune Shirow (Currently reading Orion, using the dictionary quite a lot here), Hiromi Uehara, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Joe Hisaishi, and, of course, Hayao Miyasaki.


Okay, here my plan and my questions:

1. I want to go to Japan next spring with a tourist visa, taking along only my dearest cymbals and snare drum. As far as I could find out, there's no tariff on instruments. I will buy a bike (I know I'll have to register it - but is that just for Tokio or is it national?) and drive around looking for Jazz clubs and other places to make music. Optimally, this will coalesce into something you'd call "freelance musician": getting work to pay for your travel. Now what I couldn't find out is if I need to upgrade my tourist visa into a working visa to accept any payments, or if there is some limit. Of course I would pay the taxes I'm due.

2. I want to ride from Tokyo to Kyoto by bike and experience the nature. Is it okay to camp on the way?

3. Im going to do Kanken 3‹‰ - in regards to that - is there even a point in doing JLPT1?

4. Are there some sort of rentable short term practice rooms for musicians? Would it be rude to ask at small factories if I could practice there for an evening?

5. Other than Tokyo - which would be good places to visit as a musician?

Much thanks in advance!

by Purpledrum  

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/13 10:10
First of all, it shows that you have been learning starting with kanji/heavy emphasis on writing - there are some strings of kanji which don't make sense or are not actually Japanese words, unfortunately. Would you be able to say that verbally? You might want to review grammar a bit more. Reading works among Western European languages, I have seen other people learn that way (German learning French or English, for example)?but it might not work fully with Japanese.

1. You cannot engage in any paid activity on tourist (to be precise Temporary Visitor) status. If you are German, check to see if you are eligible for Working Holiday Visa. This may be a way to pick up some casual work in Japan while traveling, but comes with a maximum limit of a year. If you bring in a set of musical instruments, be ready for questions at the airport immigration what you intend to do in Japan.

2. That is a long way, and not necessarily surrounded by nature all the way. Camping is allowed only in designated camping grounds.

3. Kanken is specialized in kanji knowledge, while JLPT looks at overall language skills, including grammar and collocation. So I would say, yes.

4. There are practice rooms rented out by the hour, so please look for those. And yes it would be rude to ask factories - they might be in the middle of residential area and they take care not to emit noises in the evenings. Also please be careful where you stay and practice.
by AK rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/13 12:03
A revised (with suggested corrections while keeping the original text as much as possible) version of the first part of your self-introduction, just for your reference, from a Japanese person.

Ž„‚́A“ρ\ŒάΞ‚ŁAƒhƒCƒc‚ɏZ‚ρ‚Ε‚’‚ά‚·Bƒhƒ‰ƒ€‚ΝŽ„‚̐lΆ‚Ι‚Θ‚­‚Δ‚Ν‚Θ‚η‚Θ‚’‚ΰ‚̂ŁA–ˆ“ϊ‰½ŽžŠΤ‚ΰ—ϋK‚΅‚Δ‚’‚ά‚·B‰ΉŠy‚ΜƒWƒƒƒ“ƒ‹‚͍L‚­AƒWƒƒƒY‚βƒfƒBƒXƒR‚©‚烁ƒ^ƒ‹‚ά‚Ε‰‰‘t‚΅‚ά‚·B“ϊ–{‚Μ•Ά‰»‚Ι–£—Ή‚³‚κA“ϊ–{Œκ‚π4”N‘O‚ΙŠw‚ΡŽn‚ί‚ά‚΅‚½B“ϊ–{‚Ι‘Ξ‚·‚ιŒhˆΣ‚Μ”O‚©‚ηAŽ„‚Μ‰ΊŽθ‚Θ“ϊ–{Œκ‚Ε“ϊ–{‚Μ’N‚π‚ΰ”Ο‚ν‚Ή‚½‚­‚ ‚θ‚ά‚Ή‚ρB‚Ε‚·‚©‚ηAJLPT1‚ɍ‡Ši‚΅‚½Žž‚ɍ‡‚ν‚Ή‚Δ“ϊ–{‚ɍs‚­‚Β‚ΰ‚θ‚Ε‚·B
by AK rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/13 19:32
Thanks alot for your answer AK, that is some really helpful information. Also thanks for your time revising the text.

If no word comes to mind I sometimes improvise by stacking onyomi, which most of the time produces the word I'm trying to convey. I think you're referring to Šˆ«Œκ, which might confuse someone when spoken, but when written down would be understood and produce an opportunity to be taught the right word.

I've took over this habit from Masamune Shirow, who also tends to invent words, which can be quite confusing sometimes, I admit. But people do this all the time with katakana, so why not with kanji?

What I don't quite understand is why you substituted “ƍ‘ withƒhƒCƒc. The latter is for shure the more popular choice, but the first isn't wrong. Is it that unusual that it wouldn't be recognized in conversation or on paper? Or would I be considered arrogant for using fancy words? Also, is it ok to throw in occasional 1‹‰ kanji in letters? I've memorized a few I find visually appealing. θΙ for example.

The working holiday visa was what I was looking for, thanks. The google search results were cluttered with commercial links so I couldn't find it. For that I have to write a motivational letter, would it be a good idea to write it by hand with a fude? Of course I would put in some more concentration than I did in the practice writings in the picture. In this letter and at japanese customs, would it be a good idea to use keigo?

Thanks!
by Purpledrum rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/14 16:05
I can tell you love kanji and its beauty, but the Japanese language, even in its written form, consists not only of kanji but also other forms of writing, and everything needs to be put together with proper grammar.

Currently the word we use to say "Germany" simply isƒhƒCƒc. We don't use “ƍ‘ in our usual writing and speech. People hear "dokkoku" or "dokukoku" and would go what??? Also we would say ƒhƒCƒch‚ɁhZ‚ρ‚Ε‚’‚ά‚·B

”ό“I is used as part of words like ”ό“IŠ΄Šo or ”ό“IƒZƒ“ƒX, in the sense of aesthetics, but not used interchangeably with the adjective ”ό‚΅‚’. Also –£—͂𔭏o and ... ‘tŒχ‚΅‚čs‚«‚ά‚· does not make sense. •s’f(often used as part of •s’f‚Μ“w—́jand ‘ε‚Α‚‚η (open, but not in this sense) are not quite used right. I have no idea where °Α‚³‚κ‚Δ‚’‚ά‚΅‚Δ came from. It is not only Šˆ«Œκ. Seeing ƒXƒpƒXƒgƒŒƒyƒeƒBƒVƒ‡ƒ“§‚ΜΕŒγ‚ΜŠΫAI got a slight suspicion you might have used automated translation then put in kanji you like. Sometimes the sentence structures are completely neglected, while big kanji words are used.

I can see your enthusiasm, but please learn your grammar properly so you can write for example
‘‚Μ’iŠK‚ŁA“Η‚ρ‚Ύ‚±‚Ζ‚β•·‚’‚½‚±‚Ζ‚Μ‘ε‘Μ8Š„‚Ν—‰π‚Ε‚«‚ι‚̂ŁAinstead of (‘‚ά‚Ε•·‚’‚½‚Ζ“Η‚ρ‚Ύ–}‚» ‚W‚O ƒp[ƒZƒ“ƒg‚π •ͺ‚©‚θ‚ά‚΅‚Δ).
‚ΰ‚Α‚Ζ“ϊ–{Œκ‚π˜b‚·‚ζ‚€‚Ι‚Θ‚κ‚΁AŽ©‘R‚Ι—Η‚­‚Θ‚Α‚Δ‚­‚ι‚ΖŽv‚’‚ά‚·Binstead of i‚ΰ‚Α‚Ζ“ϊ–{Œκ‚πŒΎ‚Α‚ΔŽž‚»‚κ‚Ν“–‘R–‚«γ‚°‚Δ‚ΖŽv‚’‚ά‚·Bj

I don't know what degree of "Keigo" you mean, but in application letters and in dealing with people you meet for the first time, test, using "keigo" or "polite speech" at least will be good. I wonder if writing it by brush might not be a bit too much, though :) Best wishes.
by AK rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/14 17:07
Thanks for your reply.

I did not use a translator. It would be ridiculous to ask for a correction of an automated translation. I'm simply starting out to actively write (pretty late I know, but its frustrating when I have to look up a word for every single sentese) and it's hard to tell if what I wrote would sound right, that point comes quite late when learning a new language. With english I got a feeling for what is right and what isn't by reading a lot, as I do now with Japanese.

I did study alot of grammar, but knowing what the individual constructs mean doesn't guarantee you're always using them correctly i.e. ‚ά‚Ε and ’Κ‚Ά‚Δ. It's hard to turn off the german voice in my head and think purely in japanese. For english, this took over 5 years of intense study.

But you got me thinking. It might be a good idea to put whole revised sentenses on flashcards which I translate when I review them, that way the right use of grammar constructs should stick better.
by Purpledrum rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/15 10:06
It is impressive if you self-taught all this over four years simply through reading. What grammar book/textbook have you been using? Sometimes a structured textbook helps put your knowledge together.
by AK rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/15 12:11
- uI've took over this habit from Masamune Shirow, who also tends to invent words, which can be quite confusing sometimes, I admit.v

It's worth bearing in mind that Masamune Shirow is a science fiction author/manga artist, and so the people he's trying to communicate with (his readers/audience) are starting off in a mental state where they expect him to invent new words. If anything, they want him to, since the whole point of science fiction is to present something that doesn't exist in reality, and therefore needs new terminology.

On the other hand, when you're communicating with everyday people in everyday situations, they aren't going to expect you to make up new vocabulary, especially in a self-introduction letter. Because of that, trying to use words you yourself invented is going to be distractingly confusing, especially if there's already a actual word for what you're trying to say. The person you're trying to communicate is going to have to stop you and ask you to explain, or, even worse, become confused enough that they give up entirely.

It's true that stringing together bits of language you do know in order to try to convey concepts you don't know the vocabulary for is an extremely useful, and often necessary, skill for having conversations in a foreign language, since we can't always predict where the conversation will end up when we start talking. It's great that you're trying to practice that.

However, in this case you're preparing a written statement ahead of time, and since you're on the internet, free Japanese-to-English online dictionaries are just a click away, so you're much better off looking up actual Japanese words rather than trying to invent new ones.

- uBut people do this all the time with katakana, so why not with kanji?v

The original purpose of katakana wasn't to invent new words. It was the opposite: to give the Japanese language a way to render words that were already invented and existed in other languages.

You are right, though, in that katakana does get used for making up new words if the creator wants something that is wholly phonetic, which is why katakana gets used so often in works of science fiction and fantasy. Again, though, these are fictional setting where the audience expects/hopes for completely original terminology, and so making up new katakana words in real-life, person-to-person communication is going to make things confusing.
by ... ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/15 14:11
I have seen musicians setup to practice alongside roadways, in the corner of a highway rest area, and in parks – out of earshot of homes. Weather permitting of course.
by Paul (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Going to Japan as a musician, some questions 2018/8/16 04:35
Thanks for your replies.

AK:
To be honest, I'm only using the ŠΏŒŸŠΏŽšŽ«“T (by looking up words the old fashioned way they stick better, for me a least), ŠwKƒXƒeƒvand ‰ί‹Ž–β‘θW, of which I am currently working on 5‹‰. I was looking for a thorough grammar book but all of them were ridiculously priced, so I learned my grammar via the nihongonomori youtube channel, of which I am comfortable with the JLPT2 level videos. Reading and listening comprehension is really not a problem.

It really boils down to the feeling you get over the years after hearing/reading certain phrases thousands of times, or, well, never. I think you know what I am talking about, your english for sure is superior to that of most native english speakers, so I guess you had your fair share of complex english media.

... ...:
This was really informative. In german it feels quite natural to invent vocabulary, since the sheer size of words leaves little room for confusion. That this phenomenon is confined to certain media in Japanese changes the game for me. I personally find it very interisting when I encounter people who learn german and improvise, creating unique words which most of the time get the pont across. It's easy to briefly tell them the word they were looking for. I for sure prefer that over someone producing his cellphone to look up words all the time.

Paul:
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.. quite a bold move though, especially with drums. I'll report how this will turn out when I get there.
by Purpledrum rate this post as useful

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