2 week Family trip - Tradeoffs

Hi all
This forum has been an incredible resource for our trip planning on our upcoming trip to Japan. We have a few wrinkles to clear for a final rev and am seeking some feedback.

Dates of travel: Apr 6 to Apr 20, 2019.
Origin: SFO
Arrival into Osaka: Apr 7, 9.30pm.
Departure from Osaka: Apr 20, 10am.
Total time: 13 nights and 12 full days.
Travel party: 6 adults, 4 kids
2 grandparents
4 adults and 4 kids (9,9, 6, 6)

Here is our proposed plan:
Apr 7 to Apr 12: Arrive into Osaka and transfer to Kyoto (5 nights and 4 full days).
Apr 12 : Kyoto to Kanazawa to late night Tokyo.
Apr 12 to Apr 19: Tokyo (7 nights and 6 full days)
Apr 19: Osaka (Aquarium and Dontobori). Overnight Osaka.
Apr 20: Fly out from Osaka.

Day Trips planned:
Kyoto: 1 day at Nara. Maybe Himeji
Tokyo: 1 day Hakone, 1 day Disney Sea, 1 day Nikko for Edo Wonderland.

Current accommodation booked:
Kyoto: 5 nights from Apr7 to Apr12 in Sanjo area.
Tokyo: 6 nights from Apr 13 to Apr 19 in Aikabhara area.

Question marks:
(a) Should we cut 1d/1n in Tokyo for a Ryokan/Onsen experience in Kanazawa? Also giving Kanazawa 1 more day.
(b) Should we attempt to accommodate.a 1d/1n trip to Kinosaki?
(c) Should we include Hiroshima/Miyajima instead?
(d) Need to rank Miyajima, Kinosaki and Kanazawa in terms of desirability.
(e) Hoping for 3 full days in Kyoto and Tokyo. So would have to cut off Nikko if we do (a) or (b) or (c).

Other constraints:
Likely to be the only trip for grandparents, so they want to cover ground. The family will be back, so may make sense to trade-off kid days for ground coverage.

Please review and share your thoughts.
thanks
Petofadiva

I would spend between Kyoto and Tokio 2 nights (1 full day) in some small relaxing onsen town, staying in onsen-ryokan and enjoy also dinner in hotel. It is always one of best and most memorable part of our trips!
Hakone or Izu for example, logistically easy to manage.
I would take these 2 nights from Tokio plan, not Kyoto.

Wouldn't do kinosaki if traveling with young kids.

I wouldn't add Hiroshima as you have little time as is, and the addition of Kanazawa chews up a lot of time as it is.

Thanks for your kind replies.
Tokyo we will spend 2 days at Disney sea and Fuji. So really 4 full days.

Here�fs what i am contemplating.

4 nights kyoto (3.5 days)
1 night Miyajima (1.5 days)
6 nights Tokyo (5 days)
Tokyo to Kanazawa to Osaka. (1 day)
2 nights Osaka (1 day)

Total 13 nights and 12 days.
Any feedback on this plan?

(a) I wouldn't just zip through Kyoto - Kanazawa - Tokyo in one day, or Tokyo - Kanazawa - Osaka. If you are visiting Kanazawa, I'd recommend to stay one night. If you are not staying over, I would simply skip Kanazawa (unless the grandparents definitely has some specific spots they want to see).

(b) I would not bother with Kinosaki, particularly with kids. It is purely old hot spring town, and for the train travel involved, not much else to see (for the kids).

(c) Hiroshima would be worth it (if time allows).

Nikko has nature in addition to temples/shrines, which are different from those in Kyoto, so even as a day trip from Tokyo I would say it is worth it.

I would ask the grandparents what they want to see/must not miss, and select those from above.

Hi!

There are spry and active grandparents and then there are older people who have a harder time walking around. The same goes for activity levels for you and your children. I don't know your family but, I think that is something you need to look at for your group since you're a relatively large group and once people start getting tired, the touring is going to be less fun.

I just went to Kanazawa with my 7 year old and we both had a great time. She did not enjoy the Ninjadera temple tour, but I did. She did love Kenrokuen and Kanazawa has a nice vibe.

I get that you are going to theme parks in Tokyo, but you've also not made clear what else you want to do in Tokyo, I think 7 days there, even with theme parks might be a bit long.

My child at 6 liked Miyajima a lot as well. We went as a day trip from Kyoto. Depending on your price range Miyajima also has some ryokans with onsen. I honestly think it is going to be hard to leave Tokyo in the morning and arrive in Osaka with enough time to see the aquarium. Even if you leave on a 8:00 am shinkansen, you're not going to be getting to the aquarium until closer to noon because of transport within Osaka. I think trying to get from Tokyo to Osaka via sightseeing in Kanazawa is problematic as well.

I guess my first suggestion is since you're coming from SFO, is there any way you can change to an into KIX flight and out of NRT/HND flight? It would save you a lot of time not to have to go back to Osaka.

I personally have discovered my kid might love public transport but I try to avoid doing more than 2-2.5 hours on a train/bus on any given day and if I am doing a long day trip to then break it up with shorter travels the next couple days. If you've not been to Asia before, I personally find when traveling from the USA, kids have a hard time with the time change. I try to take advantage of that by visiting temples in the morning, but it also means by 18:00 Japan time, mine just wants to go to sleep. I would think about this in your plans, since kids can be unpredictable.

I like the Sanjo area of Kyoto, but I would think about whether you really want to be in Akihabara. I am by no means a prude, but I have seen figures in shops on display there that I would prefer my young child not see. Akihabara isn't really what I think of when I think of families.

I've been leery of taking my child to Kawaguchiko. It seems like an awful long trip and not really a lot that is appealing to a child outside the amusement park. I would try to figure out why you want to travel to Mt. Fuji?

Like @guest said, I would talk to the grandparents and everyone else involved in the trip to make a must do list and then work from there. Even if this is the grandparents only trip, they're not going to see everything. Heck, a 9 year old can also give input on their interests in Japan.

You are also likely to be in Japan during some part of sakura season.

I think your revised plan is very good - the whole family should be able to enjoy. Don't forget to include a day-trip to Nara. I have done a day-trip to Kanazawa, and it is definitely doable if you are prepared for long train rides. Have a fun trip.

Thanks everyone.

Thanks everyone for your kind replies. After perusing everyone's advise, we have dropped Kinosaki.

Overnight on Kanazawa or Osaka is one open item.

Regards interests:
Fuji is my wife's request.
Disney sea and Nara are kids'
Possibly will have the grand parents do Nikko while we are in Disney sea.
Tried looking into changing tickets but its costing us about 4k for 8 tickets. Will need to make this itinerary work.
I wasn't aware of the Akihabara area related issue. The hard part in Tokyo is finding hotels that can take 4 people and yet be close to train stations.

One other area of advise, is it recommended to hire private guides in any of these locations?
I am thinking 2 days in Kyoto and one day in Tokyo.
Thanks

OK, so you have 3 destinations that are must dos. If you were just 2 or 3 people it's a lot easier to move to a location for 1 or 2 nights, but unless you all pack light or plan to do a lot of takyuubinning, I think doing single nights places would be hard. I still might takyuubin from Tokyo to KIX and then travel with just small overnight bags from Tokyo onwards to Osaka. I would stay in Osaka the night before you go, but honestly, the Osaka aquarium is not really any nicer than the ones in SF.

I've never hired a private guide, but I've also never traveled in a big group. If you can afford it, a private guide might be helpful just for juggling transport to locations. I would be leery of joining on an organized tour though, just because sometimes they spend more time at a location you want to leave and less in one you want to see more of. This can particularly be an issue with kids. If you are hiring a guide you really need to decide where you want to go. I wouldn't hire one for Tokyo. I would instead split up based on interests like museums vs. shopping vs. whatever your interests are...

If the grandparents are willing to split up, that works really nice, since it is a way to get in more places. I like Nikko but you are trying to get a lot in already so having the grandparents go there instead of TDR makes sense.

Since for Kyoto you only list Nara as a must do and for Tokyo you only list Sea and Kawaguchiko I would probably do:

April 7 Kyoto (night Kyoto)
April 8 Nara (night Kyoto)
April 9 Kyoto (night Kyoto)
April 10 Kyoto (night Kyoto)
April 12 Kyoto/Hiroshima (night Miyajima) Pass day 1
April 13 Hiroshima/Tokyo (night Tokyo) Pass day 2
April 14 Tokyo (night Tokyo) Pass Day 3
April 15 Fuji 5 Lakes (night Tokyo) Pass day 4
April 16 Disney Sea (night Tokyo) Pass day 5
April 17 Tokyo/Kanazawa ( night Kanazawa) Pass day 6
April 18 Kanazawa/Osaka(night Osaka) Pass Day 7
April 20 (fly from Osaka)

I would see if a 1 week pass makes sense, it more than likely does. I put Fuji 5 Lakes towards the end of your Tokyo time in the hopes the shibazakura are in bloom. All the sights in the area are open on Monday except the MagLev exhibition as well. If you change Fuji 5 Lakes to the 14th you risk Sunday crowds because it should be around sakura season and Sundays are when people have off. I picked the 16th for Sea because it is currently forecast to be a low crowd day.:
http://www15.plala.or.jp/gcap/disney/

I would really try to go on a light blue day because TDR can just be so crowded. I went on a light orange day and it was just amazingly unpleasant. And yes I have been to the US parks.

If you discover more things you must do in Tokyo, I would cut Kanazawa, and the grandparents could always do it as a day trip. If you're already going to Kyoto I don't think Meiji Jingu or Sensoji are that interesting. Do be warned, kids tend to get temple fatigue. Kyoto has a great monkey park, though the climb to the top of the hill is long and steep. I've also been to the Toei Movie park when I needed a break. I bought my child a goshuin, which we collect stamps for to help make a memorable souvenir. I also found giving my child their own camera to take their own pictures made visiting gardens, temples and shrines a lot more interesting for her.

I mean Akihabara could have changed since I was last there. Previously it was all electronic stores and Otaku stores. Some of the figures in the Otaku stores are just cute, some are just posed sexily, and some are things I wish I could bleach from my memory and are not things I want my kid seeing. It's also just very bright and not somewhere I would personally want to stay. Ochanomizu and Kanda which are super close on a map but are quite different seem to have more hotels than Akihabara itself, are you sure you are in Akihabara and not Kanda or Ochanomizu? When you say 4 adults, do you mean you-spouse-2 kids, or do you mean 4 adults, you-spouse-2kids-grandparents?? Finding a room that can hold 6 occupants is really hard in Tokyo and you really need to check room sizes because a lot of places have tiny rooms and the twin beds in most twin rooms are both between the size of a US twin and a US double, which can be hard for two adults to share. If you have to stay in a luxury hotel to get two actual queen beds.

What age a hotel considers a child as an adult occupant varies by hotel. Some consider any child over 5 as an adult occupant. I notice it a lot, because I brought my child at 5, 6, and 7. There are plenty of hotels that would not count your 2 children as adult occupants. It just might take some looking.

Many hotels don't open up for reservations until 5-6 months before particular dates, so oddly enough in a month there will be even more potential room options.

Hi rkold,

Thanks for all your pointers and help. We will have 3 rooms with 2adults+2 kids in 2 of the rooms and my parents in the third room.
After all the pointers we have rejigged our itinerary as follows.

Apr 7: Arrive into Osaka at 9.30pm. Overnight Sanjo, Kyoto
Apr 8: Kyoto. Overnight Sanjo, Kyoto
Apr 9: Miyajima day trip (if time permits, do Hiroshima) Overnight Sanjo, Kyoto
Apr 10: Kyoto Overnight Sanjo, Kyoto
Apr 11: Nara Overnight Sanjo, Kyoto. Luggage to Tokyo
Apr 12: To Kanazawa. Overnight Kanazawa.
Apr 13: Kanazawa, Overnight Ochanomizu, Tokyo
Apr 14: Tokyo. Overnight Ochanomizu, Tokyo
Apr 15: Tokyo. Overnight Ochanomizu, Tokyo
Apr 16: Disney Sea . Overnight Ochanomizu, Tokyo
Apr 17: Tokyo. Overnight Ochanomizu, Tokyo.
Apr 18: To Hakone, Overnight Ryokan experience. Luggage to Osaka
Apr 19: To Osaka, Evening Dotombori shopping and stroll. Overnight Osaka.
Apr 20: Fly back at 10am

A few questions remain:
(a) Apr 12/13: Two full days/1 night in Kanazawa or 1 day Kyoto area/1day,1night in Kanazawa?
(b) Would a 14 day JR rail pass be the way to go?
(c) I have bookings for Ryuguden and Fukuzumiro in Hakone. Which one to pick or would you pick something else?

Thanks so much

Hi!

I'm the wrong person to ask about bookings in Hakone other than where you might not want to stay lol We have dietary restrictions, and very few ryokans in Hakone are willing to work with us, despite Hakone being so popular with foreign tourists. I've had much more luck in Nagano prefecture.

I just want to make sure you realize that Hakone and Fuji Five Lake/Kawaguchiko are not the same area and are quite a ways from one another (I'm talking at least 1 1/2 hour by bus, it is closer if you have a rental car, but is still going to be like an hour because Japanese roads have low speed limits compared to the USA.) Usually when people refer to Mt. Fuji they mean Kawaguchiko and Fuji Five Lakes and not Hakone. If you are going to Hakone with the goal of seeing Mt. Fuji it might happen... it might not. I've gone to Hakone multiple times and have never seen Mt. Fuji in Hakone. I have many many many times seen Mt. Fuji from Tokyo itself. If seeing Mt. Fuji is the goal, you have much better chances from Fuji Five Lakes, however the downside of that is it is much more out of the way when going to Osaka. I'd read reviews on Trip Advisor and Booking for those particular ryokan and see what people say.

For luggage forwarding to the airport and not a hotel, check times with your hotel in Tokyo. Oftentimes they require 48 hours before your flight departure time just to make sure everything is there on time. I was traveling from Kyoto to KIX and and there was still a 48 hour requirement. I ended up needing to use an actual physical Takyuubin office to lower it to 36 hours.

You can if you get up early enough do a day trip to Miyajima, I think fitting in anything outside of Miyajima would be hard. We did a day trip to Miyajima from Kyoto in '17. We caught a shinkansen at 8:00 am from Kyoto to Hiroshima and arrived at the dock in Miyajima about 10:30 because we caught an earlier train than Hyperdia predicted from Hiroshima to Miyajima-guchi because we made a great transfer in Hiroshima Station. Even with that we didn't finish at Miyajima until 3ish. Kids tend to like Miyajima. It was low tide when we were there and my child loved walking out the torii gate and watching crabs scuttle in the sand. She also liked the deer and enjoyed the shopping arcade. We didn't even make it ropeway and the mountain. At that point you're just not going to make it back to Hiroshima in time to do anything and again this is assuming you can get everyone in your large group of 10 people up, dressed and to Kyoto Station in time to catch 8:00 am train. Be forewarned, the Sakuras coming back from Hiroshima to Shin-Osaka (there are no directs to Kyoto in the afternoon when we were looking) tend to be very full and I would suggest eating dinner in Hiroshima since finding 10 seats is going to be a challenge during earlier times of day.

There are people who will say you can't do a long day trip like Miyajima from Kyoto. You can. You just really need to start early and make sure everyone in your party is comfortable sitting on trains for a long time. I also try to balance my trips now with long day trips and then days where we don't travel far. So for example the day after our long day this past Summer (Kyoto to Marugame to Takamatsu back to Kyoto) the next day we went sightseeing in Kyoto only.

I really like Kanazawa, so I am biased. I am trying to find a way to go there on my next trip again because I liked it so much. It's very attractive and to me is a nice size. I really like the garden, castle and various temples and shrines, but I don't know how much that interests your group. I am thinking of going back and doing crafts with my child next trip. If I could talk a friend into Japan to ship to use, I would try to do pottery. I think I would partially make my decision on when to arrive in Kanazawa based on where your hotel is located. If you can walk to the train station, then it is easier to arrive later, but if you are then going to need to get on a bus or take a cab, you might not want to run as late. You are only as strong as your weakest link when you are a large group.

I like Ochanomizu, but I would also check every so often to see if other hotels become available as well. A lot of places won't list availability until 5 months out and 5 months out I find can be the sweet spot for getting a good deal. Heck, I'd even check to see what becomes available in Kyoto. I saw some lovely looking new hotel that was a village of machiyas and I think those hold quite a few people. For us, it wasn't worth it because we're a party of 2.

I'm not sure what I'd do in terms of passes. Have you put all your long distance travel in a calculator to get an estimate? Osaka shopping is pretty similar to Tokyo shopping except depending on where you are shopping is even more crowded in Osaka. Dotonbori is very crowded and I've personally yet to see the big appeal. If you really want to do it, you might be better off trying to find the time when you are in Kyoto. I also wouldn't want to make the night before I leave a super late night if you need to be at KIX by 8:30 am at the latest which means leaving Osaka proper around 7:30 am. (Even from Tennoji you're looking at 40 minutes to the airport. I don't know where in Osaka you are starting.) You might even want to consider whether you could find a good flight from Haneda Airport, Tokyo (post Hakone) to KIX and staying overnight near KIX before your 10:00 am flight. You should be able to do the flight for 10,000 yen or less per person. If you fly from HND to KIX and stay near KIX the night before you leave for home I would just do a 1 week and get from Tokyo to Hakone via the Odakyu private line. You'd have to change to the Odakyu line in Odawara regardless and it is not covered by your pass.

Good luck!