Ok to bring 3-year old into cafe?

Hi folks,

I'm a frequent visitor to Japan and think I know my around quite well.
However here is one thing I am unsure of and I'd like to ask for your opinion:

One of my favorite places in Tokyo is a small cafe in Shibuya. They serve hand-brewed cafe in a nice atmosphere. Not too fancy but not the hurried Starbucks clientele. Also smoking is allowed, which usually is a big bother for me, but they have very good ventilation so you hardly smell any smoke as long as your direct neighbor is not smoking.

[b]As we're bringing our 3year-old daughter with us to Tokyo this time, I am wondering if it is generally accepted/allowed to bring well behaved, quiet kids to restaurants/cafes where
a) smoking is allowed
b) food/drinks are served in a more decent atmosphere (I hope you can understand what I want to say) [/b].

I am asking as last time we were shown the door when we entered a small mochi-restaurant with a similar atmosphere (though non-smoking) with our daughter. However in that case the choking hazard with kids and mochi might have played a role - we might never know.

[i]PLEASE no general advice or discussion on how I should not take my child to a smoking-restaurant (as I said you hardly smell anything) or whether this is a place she will bother other guests (she will not, be assured, we're very sensitive to that).[/i]

You can ask not to have a discussion about bringing a child of 3 to a cafe, but I do want to say that this is irresponsible and selfish because you want to enjoy some alcohol.

Anyway I think it is clear that cafes in Japan serving alcohol have rules.
So if the cafe allows than you can go (moral discussion)
If not you will be asked to leave or not to enter.

I've noticed places can really vary in terms of children, even within specific chains. The Kyoto Dormy has no problem with kids, the Nagano Dormy doesn't allow them. Why? I have no clue. But there you have it. There is nothing about the Nagano Dormy that is all that different than the Kyoto branch outside price.

Some restaurants are fine with kids and some are not. I guess you could ask the hotel where you are staying to contact the safe and ask if kids are allowed? I would think that might be the easiest or maybe search for it on tablelog or trip advisor to see if they have information on things like that. It's from doing research on tripadvisor I found out places like Naoshima don't have children's bicycles available.

3yo in cig smoke room. No thanks.

If you are asking about coffee shops - OK, even strollers. If you are asking about Izakaya - probably most would be a No. If you are asking about restaurants in general, where food sales far surpasses alcohol sales - most would be OK.

in Japan, most of cafe,喫茶店, serve only non-alcoholic beverages.
cafe which OP says seems to be a typical and old-style 喫茶店 in Japan.
you can go, if they allowed.

OP never mentioned anything about alcohol so I don’t know why people are talking about that.

However OP should be aware that even if the smell of smoke is weak your child will still be second hand smoking. As studies have confirmed second hand smoking is harmful in ventilated areas, cars with open windows, even outdoors. It’s your child and your responsibility, do what you like but make sure you actually understands first because your last paragraph makes it sound like you simply do not.

@justmyday
Who said anything about alcohol? I was clearly talking about a cafe that serves hand-brewed coffee?

@hakata14
You're welcome.

@rkold, @ken, @paul
Thank you, I guess I just have to find out beforehand. I'd like to avoid being thrown out again, as in the mochi-shop.

@LIZ
I DO care, if that helps, I just wanted to avoid a general debate which started anyway. You don't have to think about the cafe I mentioned as a smoking hell-hole. It is just that smoking is allowed and some people do. A thing I hate but cannot change.

Do you ask people sitting directly next to you to stop smoking if they start smoking there?

Boy, lots of people in this thread clearluy don't have kids. You will need to check with each individual restaurant that isn't a family style chain about kids. We usually send whichever parent isn't holding the kiddo in to make sure they are ok with it. We have only once had a restaurant refuse us so far, but we usually go to places that look like kids would be fine before we even ask. It can really be up to the discretion of the owners of each establishment though, so just prepare to ask everywhere you go.

I'd try to call the cafe ahead of time so you don't waste a trip out there (unless you're just passing by, or can get it to go if you can't sit down), and then try to go during a non busy time so there's less of a chance of smokers being around and sit in a table that is near a corner or something. An hour or so in that sort of environment, while maybe not ideal, is not going to cause issues. The dangers of second and third hand smoke are related to constant exposure from a smoking caregiver and their home/car, not from the rare exposure in a restaurant or on the street. I don't think it is "selfish" or "irresponsible" of you to take your kid there on your vacation, knowing it's a rare chance to go for you. Parental self-care is important too, and it sounds like you guys really enjoy this cafe. We fellow parents know how it goes!

Sorry, that was supposed to be clearly. Butterfingers.

@..(guest), not OP, but in that situation, we would just prepare to leave. If smoking is allowed in the restaurant, then they are within their right to do so, and we would know ahead of time that it could happen. One parent would go outside with the kid while the other parent finished, then we'd switch and leave right after.

Murny, you can sure say that again about this unnecessarily long thread. I've seen very casual-looking places politely ask toddlers to leave while the most fancy places didn't. You really have to just show your child and ask "Okay?" or have someone phone in advance. I'm sure the last time for the OP was an unpleasant surprise, but as long as you're prepared I don't think you'd be offended. Happy coffee time!

@..
I'm with murny there. If I decide to go there I wouldn't want to restrict other people in their rights/actions and prefer to leave

@murny
Thanks for the backup. I was afraid a discussion like this would start when opening the thread after I read the other one in which someone asked if she could bring morning-after-pills into Japan and people started to argue about birth-control in general rather than answering the question.

@Uco
Thanks for your thoughts.

--------------------------------

ONTOPIC

So as a conclusion, what I learn from the several answers regarding my question:

- There doesn't seem to be a general law in Japan that says people below a certain age are generally not allowed in places where smoking is allowed (as opposite to e.g. Germany where you cannot enter if under 18 - however these days there are hardly any places where you can smoke. It's basically just small bars or large restaurants with a special smoking section)

- Asking beforehand if children are allowed is always a good idea as regulations vary

I'm going to delete this thread pretty soon as people tend to get heated easily if no other replies follow. Thanks for contributing.

there is a law, so do not assume.

Smoke inside rooms or vehicles in which children under 18 are present is not allowed.
children exposed to tobacco smoke from adults, including their own parents. Although it carries no penalties, the by-law seeks to protect the health of children on the basis of the Law on Prevention of Child Abuse.

So if you want to be irresponsible than why you take children.

@ justmyday
There is no such law.

I think its best to ignore user "justmyday" as she/he/it loves trolling

Hi again. Just for your reference, the by-law that justmyday explained about is true (including the part that there is no punishment). It is a by-law that was established in Tokyo this April. Here is a back-up (in Japanese) from Tokyo's official website.
http://www.fukushihoken.metro.tokyo.jp/kensui/kitsuen/kodomojourei.htm...

I feel that by-laws are established to show people that "it's that serious" and/or "it's that universal enough" and/or "times have changed as much". But sometimes it's difficult to obey by-laws, and even if you avoid smoking in your house, you still get smoke from a window. So my opinion is to enjoy life at your own risk. And I don't even know if the cafe is in Tokyo.

It's rude to leave the table after you see the customer sitting next to you is smoking. The person should 気を使う finding you are with a small child.