Itinerary help - Kanazawa

Would like some advice on where to fit Kanazawa into our Takayama stay, or whether time is too limited.

We arrive KIX with 5 nights Kyoto then 2 nights Takayama, followed by 6 nights Tokyo, flying out NRT.

Could it work to visit Kanazawa on the way to Takayama, including a visit to Shirakawago
eg. Kyoto - Kanazawa - Shirakawago - Takayama; then Takayama - Tokyo (via Toyama)

Is there a better alternative?

Many thanks

I think that would be the quickest way. A nicer but longer trip would be Kyoto - Takayama (via Nagoya) - Shirakawa - Kanazawa - Tokyo. That would involve going on the wideview hida which is a really nice trip winding through the mountains. Either way, try to stop off at Hikone between Kyoto and the next stop. Hikone is a little-ish town with a great castle overlooking Lake Biwa

You could spend a day in Kanazawa, and then a day for Takayama. The crown jewel is Kenrokuen.
https://goo.gl/MkGZYp
You could also see Shirakawago along the way by bus - it only takes a couple of hours. But from Takayama to Tokyo, unless you have some pressing need to go to Toyama, it is way faster to go by way of Nagoya - and even then, it'll be close to 4½ hours.
For Kyoto, I hope you'll make at least a half day open to see Nara also. Skipping it would be a tragedy.
https://goo.gl/LfvWnL

Unless you add some fairly long distance day trips from Kyoto and/or Tokyo, it's doubtful a JR rail pass would pay off for you.

@Lazy Pious (guest)
Thanks for the response & for mentioning Hikone, I actually didn't know about this town and it's castle, certainly looks lovely.
Regarding your comment, a nicer but longer trip being Kyoto - Takayama (via Nagoya) on the Hida Wide View, this is originally what we set out to do. Kanazawa came into it afterwards. I do not see how Takayama (via Nagoya) - Shirakawa - Kanazawa - Tokyo is possible unless we leave Shirakawa and Kanazawa until our final day departing Takayama. In my estimation, Kanazawa is closer to Kyoto and therefore fits better at the beginning.

@Ken (guest)
Thanks for the response, and the info. regarding departing for Tokyo via Toyama vs. Nagoya. I have read you can take the Wide View Ltd Express from Takayama to Toyama (90 mins), then transfer to Hakutaka Shinkansen to Tokyo (134 mins). I will need to look into this again.

Regarding your comment about JR pass, we are considering a day-trip to Miyajima from Kyoto, half-day/evening to Osaka, and will have day trips to Nikko and Fuji from Tokyo, making the 7-day pass worthwhile. I know everybody would agree with your advice about Nara, for now it's not on my itinerary.

Cheers, I'm not sure but from memory Takayama to Shirakawa by bus is about 70 mins, then bus Shirakawa to Kanazawa is about the same. You need a couple of hours in Shirakawa-go - maybe 3 tops.

As you mentioned, you can also go the other way (thunderbird kyoto to kanazawa, bus kanazawa to shirakawa, bus shirakawa to takayama, wideview Hida Takayama to Nagoya). I always thought that the trip Nagoya to Takayama was better than the return, but both are pretty. The Thunderbird trip from Kyoto to Kanazawa isnt that pretty.

"But from Takayama to Tokyo, unless you have some pressing need to go to Toyama, it is way faster to go by way of Nagoya - and even then, it'll be close to 4½ hours".

Tokyo and Toyama are directly connected with each other by the JR Hokuriku Shinkansen. The one way ride takes approximately two hours, costs around 12,500 yen and is fully covered by the Japan Rail Pass.
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7501.html

If you're thinking of seeing only one out of Takayama and Kanazawa, I'd suggest seeing Kanazawa and skipping Takayama. I've been to both, and Kanazawa was far more interesting, whereas I had trouble finding things to do for two full days in Takayama and ending up cutting short my visit there.

Hi!

You can do Takayama to Toyama to Tokyo, *BUT* the Hidas from Takayama run a lot less frequently. There are only 4 a day and if you miss one you have a long long long wait. The Hidas from Takayama to Nagoya run more frequently.

Assuming you are using a rail pass, Takayama to Nagoya to Tokyo is still faster by 10 minutes than Takayama to Toyama to Tokyo (assuming you have timed either trip so you don't need to wait in Takayama for a Hida to either Toyama or Nagoya, Hyperdia is giving me 278 minutes vs. 291 minutes.) Without a rail pass, you will save even more time because there are more frequent Nozomi and won't have a 20 minute layover in Nagoya Station. With Takayama to Toyama you may also have a long layover in Toyama and to be honest Toyama Station is really boring. It's super clean but really really boring and you're not going to have enough time on any layover to drop off your bag in a locker, do something in Toyama, and then collect your bag and make your train.

Though truth be told unless you have a lot of expensive day trips planned out of Tokyo, it might not be worth it to get a rail pass. I'm getting: 6700 yen for a Thunderbird from Kyoto to Kanazawa. You pay out of pocket for the bus from Kanazawa to Shirakawa Go onwards to Takayama and then Takayama to Tokyo is 15,430 yen by way of Toyama or 14,410 by way of Nagoya. Even using the higher amount, that leaves you with a total of 22130 yen. Unless you have 6970 yen worth of travel while in Tokyo, a rail pass is not worth it. Your pass will expire before your NEX as it stands now, so that should not be included in your 6970 yen's worth of fares. If you go from Takayama to Nagoya to Tokyo, you would need to spend even more than 6970 yen to make a pass worth it.

Like @Umami_Dearest recommended, if it was me, I would just do Kanazawa. There is a lot to see and do there and it would be a super easy stop off on the way to Tokyo. If you had the inclination and money you could also look into doing the Alpine Route after 1 day in Kanazawa or the Kurobe Gorge.

Takayama is just really far from everything and you're looking a lot of travel for 2 nights not super close to anywhere else you are going. Now if you took a few days from Kyoto and Tokyo to expand your time in the Alps, I could see Takayama making more sense.

Tokyo and Toyama are directly connected with each other by the JR Hokuriku Shinkansen. The one way ride takes approximately two hours, costs around 12,500 yen and is fully covered by the Japan Rail Pass.

I'm very well aware of the Hokuriku Shinkansen. But you are not taking into account the trains to get from Takayama to Toyama via Inotani - and their frequency. The best time you could do is a train that takes nearly 5 hours including almost an hour's wait in Toyama, arriving in Tokyo close to 4 PM and nearly killing the day. Otherwise, you'd need to take another train, most morning ones taking close to 6 hours.
https://is.gd/YN8VjZ
It looks like you don't know that bullet trains from Toyama are only going around once per hour. But on the Tokaido Line they leave every 10-15 minutes. If you want to get to Tokyo sooner, go via Nagoya.

Not to disagree with anyone who prefers Kanazawa to Takayama, but I would say it is a matter of taste. We went to Kanazawa once for 3 or 4 days and havent been back. On the other hand, we have been to Takayama 3 or 4 times for an aggregate of about 8 or 9 days and would go back in a flash. Something struck a chord with us in Takayama.

@Lazy Pious, here is my problem with Takayama for this specific itinerary...

If OP left Kyoto bright and early at 8:56 am and used a Nozomi, they're not getting to Takayama until 12:23 with a nearly 3.5 hour travel time. They have 1/2 a day. The next day they have a full day and if they then leave Takayama around 11:00 am the following day they're not in Tokyo until close to 16:00. I mean if that's what they want, only 1.5 days really in Takayama, that's fine, but it just seems like a lot of traveling for not all that much time at the destination. Now if they took a day off Tokyo, and instead did: 2 nights in Takayama and 1 night in Mastsumoto and then did 5 nights in Tokyo, I'd think Takayama makes a lot more sense. If OP did the following, I definitely wouldn't get a rail pass since they'd be doing a bus to Matsumoto.

For a short excursion on the way to Tokyo, Kanazawa makes sense because it is less travel time. It's 2 hours from Kyoto and a shade under 3 hours from Tokyo. So you cut 1.5 hours travel on your first day and more like 2 hours your second.

I admit, I love Kanazawa. I love the feel of it and would love to go back but my daughter nixed it. I would consider going back to Takayama if it fit in my schedule but I would never go back to Shirakawa Go again unless there was some sort of adventure travel leaving from there.

Good luck!

Haha, I'm with your daughter on this one!

What I like about including Takayama is:

1. I tend to think Kanazawa is a bit sedate after the glamour of Kyoto;
2. going through the Alps is an activity in itself - it is a part of Japan that you dont get to see on the shinkansen or thunderbird.

@Lazy Pious, I don't think you'd quite agree with her reasoning though lol I know many people consider Kenrokuen one of the best gardens, but we went to Ritsurin first, and she found Kenrokuen quite a let down after Ritsurin. She also didn't like how long I spent at the Lupicia branch in Kanazawa XD She is happy to spend a long time shopping for her interests but not mine. I'm working on a system for the upcoming trip so we both are happier.

Personally, We both found the Hida a huge let down. I don't remember what it was like in 2010, but when we took it in 2017 (Nagoya to Takayama and later Takayama to Toyama) the trains seemed a bit run down and god forbid you needed to use the facilities during the trip, they were squat style and quite nasty. I thought the bus between Takayama and Matsumoto was much nicer and I thought the view was more impressive as well. I think that is why I keep pushing the Matsumoto idea. I find the view from the Hida is attractive for about 1 hour and then it just gets a bit old. You don't ever really go through the mountains so much as near them. I do think the Takayama to Toyama half has better mountain views, it just runs so infrequently. There are only 8 trips the whole route a day and only 4 of those are Hidas. Toyama Station is really boring. We got stuck there for 45 minutes or so for our layover.

I do agree that the train trip to Kanazawa from Kyoto is boring, I look forward to it becoming a shinkansen route to shorten it. I liked Kanazawa to Tokyo (though we always end up overnighting in Nagano, because I like Nagano) and I like Nagoya to Tokyo. Both have some nice views to me. And while I've not done Matsumoto to Tokyo that definitely looks scenic.

Good luck!

I'm going to chip in on behalf of Kanazawa, saying that I really like it. There's the modern art museum, the samurai district, the stunning garden and if you want to, you can head out on the train to the Noto Peninsula. I'm not such a fan of the castle (it's awfully shiny inside) but the castle garden is very nice.

We've been there twice for probably 6 nights altogether, I'd go back. Though next time we'll use it as a jump-off point for a drive around the Noto Peninsula.

We've not been to Takayama/Shirakawa go due to the time constraint issue.

For fares etc don't overlook the Japanican deals-we haven't done any of these particular ones but the ones we have done have been pretty good deals. https://www.japanican.com/en/tour/list/?typecd=TOU&typegrpcd=TPA&deptc...

@Ken
Tokyo and Toyama are directly connected with each other by the JR Hokuriku Shinkansen. The one way ride takes approximately two hours, costs around 12,500 yen and is fully covered by the Japan Rail Pass.

I'm very well aware of the Hokuriku Shinkansen. But you are not taking into account the trains to get from Takayama to Toyama via Inotani - and their frequency. The best time you could do is a train that takes nearly 5 hours including almost an hour's wait in Toyama, arriving in Tokyo close to 4 PM and nearly killing the day. Otherwise, you'd need to take another train, most morning ones taking close to 6 hours.
https://is.gd/YN8VjZ
It looks like you don't know that bullet trains from Toyama are only going around once per hour. But on the Tokaido Line they leave every 10-15 minutes. If you want to get to Tokyo sooner, go via Nagoya.

I did not know about less frequent Inotani. Unless I missed it japanguide.com fails to mention it, and I have not read it anywhere before until you guys talked about it here. Very good to know.

@rkold
Thanks very much for your info and responses.
First of all regarding 7-day JR being worthwhile or not, I understand your points about the out of pocket expenses with Nohi bus. Possibility of JR Pass was if we activate it for Miyajima day visit from Kyoto, then for return trip to Nikko from Tokyo.
I agree with or at least see your point with the lack of time in Takayama when weighing up all the travelling time, and perhaps why I want to try to include Kanazawa (en-route from Kyoto) to make it the detour more worthwhile.
Just in relation to Takayama, I want to visit mostly because of Takayama's preserved streets district and in fact our hotel in this location for 2 nights is very close the same amount we are paying for 5 nights in Kyoto. I did overlook Kanazawa when planning, and now realise I probably should have allocated 1 night there. Our bookings can be changed however.

In the scenario that we leave things as they are, in order to maximise time and avoid backtracking, could it work to go Kyoto to Kanazawa (7.29am [129 mins], arriving Kanazawa 9:38am). Then depart for Shirakawago around lunch time, en-route to Takayama, allowing 1 full day the following day in Takayama, before departing for Tokyo the following day. Or, too rushed in your opinion?

I didn't quite follow:
"For a short excursion on the way to Tokyo, Kanazawa makes sense because it is less travel time".

Do you mean excursion to Kanazawa after departing Takayama, en-route to Tokyo?

Finally, regarding your comment in relation to adding 1 night in Matsumoto then 5 nights in Tokyo making more sense. This is worth considering. Would you do this and skip Kanazawa? Would the route to Tokyo be longer departing from Matsumoto (than Takayama)?

Many thanks

@Mynus,

In 2017 I did the Takayama to Toyama route because I wanted to go to Nagano and visit Zenkoji. We spent too long at Hida no Sato Village and missed the 11:01 Hida. The next train to Toyama was at 13:15. There was a local leaving at 12:30 (which I had thought went all the way to Toyama, but it didn't and would arrive within minutes of the 13:15 Hida because of its layover in Inotani.) The Hidas are direct between Takayama and Toyama and only 89 minutes, but you need to specifically time for them and they are not timed to coincide with the shinkansen from Toyama to Tokyo and there are some long layovers in Toyama. I ended up getting to Nagano too late to visit Zenkoji that trip. (I went in 2018 instead.) Kanazawa Station has a huge shopping complex attached to it as well as another one just outside. Both have lots of places to eat. Toyama was not like that. It had one combini type place and that was it.

There is about one Hida once an hour to Nagoya and a lot more trains from Nagoya to Tokyo.

@Ken
I did not know about less frequent Inotani. Unless I missed it japanguide.com fails to mention it, and I have not read it anywhere before until you guys talked about it here. Very good to know.

Now that I know about the less frequent options departing via Toyama we will instead depart via Nagoya.
Thanks for sharing that useful info.

I highly recommend you take advantage of Hyperdia to find rail schedules, fares, and routes.
http://www.hyperdia.com