Itinerary Advice - 3 Weeks in Nagano and Alps

Hello experts,

I finally managed to book my 2nd trip to Japan for about 3 weeks this coming autumn (Oct 21 - Nov 09). This time, I’m planning to focus on four things: Mountains, Hiking, Shrines and Soba! I’m into slow travel and for this trip, I’d like to avoid rushing from one place to another, but rather pick just a few strategically-located locations and use them as bases for extensive day tripping.

Here’s my work-in-progress itinerary:

Day 1 (Oct 20)
Flight to Tokyo

Day 2-4 (Oct 21 - 23)
Tokyo

Day 5-10 (Oct 24 - 29)
Tokyo - Matsumoto (Base: Matsumoto). Day trips to the following:

* Kamikochi
* Shinhotaka Ropeway
* Agematsu / Nezame no Toko
* Agematsu / Akasawa Forest Park
* Senjojiki Cirque / Komagane

Day 11-14 (Oct 30 - Nov 02)

Matsumoto - Onsen town (Need recommendations)
(Base: Onsen town / mountain village). Day trips to the following:

* Narai
* Tsumago
* Magome


Day 15-19 (Nov 03 - 07)
Onsen town - Nagano (Base: Nagano). Day trips to the following:

* Togakushi
* Hakuba / Hokujo
* Hakuba / Happo Pond
* Norikura Kogen
* Karuizawa
* Obuse
* Tenryu Gorge

Day 20 (Nov 08)
Nagano - Tokyo (Overnight in Narita area)

Day 21 (Nov 09)
Return flight

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My questions:

1. Does my plan so far make sense logistically?

2. Are all the places I’ve listed suitable as a day trips from Matsumoto or Nagano City?

3. For my third base, I’m looking for a small onsen town or mountain village. I’m considering Kiso Valley, Takayama or the surrounding area. Any recommendations?

4. Considering that I’ll be traveling to a different place almost every day using trains and buses, would it be economic to purchase a rail pass? If so, which type pass would be the best?

Thanks!
Lee

I haven't been to all those places but your overall plan looks good. You have a lot of time and you're concentrating on one area.
Kamikochi is nice and your can do some pleasant hiking there.
If you're not driving, Togakushi is an hour bus ride away from Nagano city (if i remember correctly) and you need to keep an eye on the schedule for your return. But the walk through the cedars to the main gate (that's as far as I went) is nice. There's also great soba restaurants there. Also a ninja museum (it was closed when I went there.)

Do the hike from Magame to Tsumago (or the other way ). You might stay overnight in one of the towns.

In Chino, you can experience soba making. I'll be doing this in October. Here's the link:
http://www.go-nagano.net/experience/the-ultimate-soba-experience

Thanks for your reply. So far I got some feedback in other forums that neither Matsumoto or Nagano will serve as good bases given the places I would like to visit. Is that correct?

To explore Kamikochi, Shinhotaka Ropeway and Norikura Kogen, you should consider staying a hotel in the mountain area. If Kamikochi seems too expensive, Hirayu can be a good base. It has good onsen. (“yu” means hot water.)

November is too late to enjoy the autumn colors in Happo Pond and Norikura Kogen where altitude is 2000m or more.

Senjojiki of Kiso-Komagatake and Tenryu Gorge are far from Nagano city. It would be better to stay at Komagane or Iida. Nagano is a large prefecture. But, note that Senjojiki is 2700 high.

Hi!

You should probably look into staying in Nagano city with your list of: Togakushi
* Hakuba / Hokujo
* Hakuba / Happo Pond
* Norikura Kogen (<== this is better from Matsumoto)
* Karuizawa (<==depending on your plans, do this from Nagano on the way back to Tokyo since you need to go through Karuizawa anyway.)
* Obuse
* Tenryu Gorge

I think most other places would make it a longer trip otherwise, and Nagano is the most centrally located. While not a ryokan, you could look into a temple stay. I stayed at a regular western hotel, the Metropolitan in Nagano, and really liked it. It's very convenient. I've been to Nagano at the end of October and I thought it was quite pretty. There are a lot of apple orchards just a short distance from town and I saw some lovely Autumn foliage.

For your Kiso Valley trip I'm not sure why you wouldn't just look for a ryokan in the Kiso Valley and stay there. There are lots of ryokan in the Kiso Valley and that is generally what people do for Narai, Tsumago and Magome. You don't want to stay in Takayama then. It's a good 4 hours each way from Takayama to the Kiso Valley. If you wanted to go to Takayama, you should go for a few days when you are thinking of staying in Matsumoto since Takayama is closer to Shin-Hokata and is about 1.5 hours from Kamikochi. I agree with @Chibanian that Hirayu could be a good base since it is about 1 hour to Takayama, 1 hour to the ropeway, .5 hours to Kamikochi, and is on the bus route from Matsumoto to Takayama. I think the Takayama side of Norikura also tends to open earlier and stay open longer vs. the Matsumoto side which closes earlier for snow. Though Shirahone onsen is on the Matsumoto side.

Some of your Matsumoto days are going to be quite long. It's around 5 hours round trip from Kamikochi to Matsumoto. Going to Shin-Hokata will also be a long day.

Good luck!

Komagane and Tenryu Gorge are surely off the beaten tourist track (at least for foreigners). I visited both on a trip last year and thoroughly enjoyed them, but did not do them as day trips from Nagano or Matsumoto. We took a bus from Nagano to Komagane and did the ropeway that day (the senjojiki cirque was still too snowy to walk, when we were there in early June, but the scenery was nice). We stayed in a lovely ryokan in Komagane called Futari Shizuka (its namesake flower was in full bloom at the time and was marvelous), and the next day took a train to Iida, dropped our luggage at our hotel there, and then went to Tenryukyo, where we basically just walked around for about an hour. It was pretty. Our hotel in Iida was a darling business hotel called Yayoi that served a lovely dinner and breakfast and had very nice bathing facilities. So anyway, it was a pleasant slow-paced trip with good sightseeing, but we spent the night in two different places (from Iida, we went to Nagoya). I probably wouldn’t do Komagane as a day trip myself, if I were based in Nagano or Matsumoto, and I definitely wouldn’t do Tenryukyo that way. They do make great stopovers between Nagano and Nagoya.

Thanks for all the replies! Following some of the advice given here as well as some further research, I’ve modified my itinerary as follows:

Day 1-4 (Oct 21-23) - Tokyo

Day 5-10 (Oct 24-29) - Matsumoto
Visit: Matsumoto Castle, Nakamachi-dori
Day trips to: Kamikochi, Norikura Kogen, Agematsu, Daio Wasabi Farm.

*OPTION 1
Day 11-14 (Oct 30 - Nov 02) - Takayama
Visit: Higashiyama Walk, Old Town
Day trips to: Shin-Hotaka Ropeway, Hida Furukawa, Okuhida

*OPTION 2
Day 11-14 (Oct 30- Nov 02) - Kiso Valley (Ryokan stay)
Day trips: Magome, Tsumago, Narai

Day 15-19 (Nov 03 - 07) - Nagano
Visit: Zenkoji Temple
Day tips to: Togakushi (Togakushi-Jinja, Ninja Museum, Lake Kagami), Hakuba, Shiga Kogen, Obuse, Matsushiro

Day 20 (Nov 08)
Nagano - Tokyo

Day 21 (Nov 09)
Return flight from Tokyo Narita

―

A few open questions:

1. For day 11-14, should I go with Option 1 or Option 2?

2. Is Hakuba a feasible day trip from Nagano City? Is it even worth getting to Hakuba during this time of the year (early November) - not interested in skiing just exploring the area and see the views.

3. I’m also considering cutting out some time from the middle part of the trip, and instead of staying in Nagano area, spend 2-3 days around Fuji Five Lakes (e.g. Lake Kawaguchiko) on my back to Tokyo. Any thoughts about this?

Yet another itinerary revision:

20/10 - Flight to Tokyo
21/10 - Arrival in Tokyo (early morning)
22/10 - Tokyo
23/10 - Tokyo (Day trip to Lake Kawaguchi)
24/10 - Tokyo
25/10 - Tokyo ― Matsumoto (Explore Matsumoto)
26/10 - Matsumoto (Day trip to Kamikochi)
27/10 - Matsumoto (Matsumoto Castle, Nakamachi-dori)
28/10 - Matsumoto (Day trip to Daio Wasabi Farm)
29/10 - Matsumoto (Day trip to Norikura Kogen)
30/10 - Matsumoto ― Kiso Valley
31/10 - Kiso Valley (Day trips to Magome, Tsumago)
01/11 - Kiso Valley (Day trip to Narai)
02/11 - Kiso Valley ― Nagano (Explore Nagano)
03/11 - Nagano (Zenkoji Temple)
04/11 - Nagano (Togakushi, Togakushi-Jinja, Ninja Museum, Lake Kagami)
05/11 - Nagano (Day trip to Hakuba)
06/11 - Nagano (Day trip to Shiga Kogen)
07/11 - Nagano (Day trips to Obuse and/or Matsushiro)
08/11 - Nagano ― Tokyo
09/11 - Flight from Tokyo Narita

―

Will appreciate any thoughts / feedback. Still not sure about Hakuba as a day trip. Also not sure about the Kiso Valley segment - any other highlights there besides the post towns?

Thanks!

Looks like you're deciding between Kawaguchiko and Kamikochi. I like them both, but based on your likes in your first post, I think you'll like Kamikochi better. For me, Kawaguchiko has a more touristy feel to the area, while Kamikochi is more rustic and natural. I do like your overall plans.

Hi!

I think your current itinerary looks really fun. I've been to Matsushiro and really enjoyed it. I think my biggest regret regarding it, is I wish I had rented a bike and biked there vs. taking the bus. (I ended up walking back to Nagano proper, and it would have been easier with a bike.) I thought the leaves and the park commemorating the battle of Kawanakajima which is located between Nagano and Matsushiro was really quite lovely. I went a decade ago, but it was really quite quiet and not mobbed with tourists. (I was there at the end of October 2009.)

I've been to Japan many times but I keep putting of Kawaguchiko because outside of good Fuji views it just looks sort of... boring. Though I am going to visit at some point to go to Fuji Q Highland. lol

In good weather, Kamikochi is truly somewhere special and even in the rain, it's still really attractive, I just wouldn't stay overnight then!

Good luck!

Good luck!