Wakayama or Gifu from Osaka

Hi everyone, I've posted a seperate question before about driving Wakayama (particularly about Kumano Kodo) and I got great responses and answers. So I thought I'd try get another set of opinions on another question.

I had made plans and arrangements to arrive in Kansai International in early February, rent a car from there, than drive to Mount Koya, and work my way down to see some Kumano Kodo Shrines than finally go to visit Nachi Falls in NachiKatsuura before making a long drive to Kyoto.

When sharing my plans with someone, he asked me if had I been to Gifu? And I said I'd never even heard of it. And he proceeded to show me some pictures of Shirakawago and Takayama in winter. And I have to say that peaked my interest enough to make me consider scraping my entire original plan and going to Gifu instead.

So right now I'm feeling abit torn about which area I should visit - considering that I have to begin my trip from Osaka and end there as well.

I've only got 7 nights in Japan, and I'd like to spend 2 nights in Kyoto and the final two nights in Osaka. So that leaves me with remaining 3 nights to either do Mount Koya and Kumano Kodo - or Gifu. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough time to squeeze both in.

The only thing about Gifu is that it looks like I have to head to Takayama first, and that's pretty darn far from Osaka. I'd be spending alot of hours on the train to get there. But I feel since I am going in February - perhaps that's the best opportunity to experience a winter wonderland and some beautiful alphine scenery and onsens.

I've always wanted to experience Koyasan and see Kumano Kodo (maybe one day do the entire trek). That's why I've originally planned it like this.

So I wonder, has anyone ever been to both? Which is your preference?

And some questions I have about Gifu:

1.) is it challenging to drive there in winter? Because I feel I can cover more ground If I rent a car in Takayama and drive around to see the sights.

2.) how many hours should one allocate to Shirakawa-go?

3.) Is it possible to visit the Shinhotaka Ropeway and Shirakawa-go in one day? Than stay in an onsen ryokan before catching a train back to Kyoto or Osaka via Kanazawa the next day.

After coming to the wakayama, you can buy
Wakayama bus 1 day pass= 1000 yen
Wakayama rail 1 day pass= 800 yen
koyasan 1 day pass by nankai rinkan bus =840
JR kansai 1 day pass= 3600 yen(valid osaka, wakayama unlimited travel by JR)

With only 7 days. I would stick to your original plan.

Plan B had you a long way from Osaka.

Hi!

Once again, the areas of Gifu-ken you want to visit are well known as places that get a lot of snow. When I went to Takayama/Hirayu onsen/Shirakawa Go (over a 3 day period in February) it didn't snow while I was there, but there was a lot of snow, like a lot, everywhere. I did need to wear boots at Shirakawa Go and just walking around Hirayu onsen. I probably wore them in Takayama too, I don't remember. Yes, it was very scenic, but if there is a ton of snow on the ground, it could snow while you are there and again, no one can predict the weather until you get there. And in this particularly case, it doesn't save you anywhere near as much time driving vs. the train as it would with the Kumano Kudo area, because you are taking trains that run more often vs. buses.

No, you can't squeeze in both.

Personally, if you want to do Takayama I would leave from Osaka to Takayama, if you leave early enough, you can get there in the afternoon and can get in some of the sights in the afternoon depending on what you want to see. Day 2 take a bus to Shin-Hokata and stay overnight in a ryokan there, you might even have some time to sightsee in Takayama in the morning depending on when you get up. Day 3 you take the bus back to Takayama and then take the bus to Shirakawa Go (spend a few hours there) and then continue onto Kanazawa by bus. Then depending on your energy level you either take the train down to Kyoto and get in super late or spend a night in Kanazawa. (since you presumably have 3 nights available since you said you had 7 nights total.)

Last time I went to Kanazawa, I took the train out of Osaka around 19:00 and got into Kanazawa at 22:00 and just stayed somewhere near the station, so I could sightsee the next day. I don't know where you are staying in Kyoto, but as long as it is not somewhere far flung or wonky, you can leave Kanazawa as late as 19:00 as long as you are not worried about sleeping through your station stop.

You can still Kumano Kudo, just be prepared for the possibility of snow and needing to change your plans if you have never driven when it is actually snowing before. I'd also bring boots because anywhere outside there is the possibility of snow or slush in either of the two locations you are considering. I brought pull over boots when I went because they packed smaller.

Good luck!

You can buy Gifu bus pass 1 day=500 yen
Shoryudo bus pass 3 Day =8000 yen

I'm a huge Takayama fan, been there 4 of 5 times, maybe 15 days all up. Also been to Shirakawa-go around Christmas. Here are my thoughts;

1. it usually doesnt snow at Takayama until January. That said, it did one year when we were there at Christmas. That made the roads slushy and a bit of a pain for walking around. But Takayama Park in the snow is lovely. Personally, I would far prefer Takayama in autumn (end October/beginning November) than winter.
2. Shirakawa is very pretty under snow. It snows earlier there than Takayama, so by new year you'd expect quite a bit. But it is an absolute menace walking around in it - icy, slippery, slushy, muddy. People were falling over everywhere. It is a production taking your gear off to walk around the historic homes. The view from the top looking down at the village is beautiful. But to me the inconvenience outweighs it, look at images online instead and maybe go in autumn.
3. I personally would go to the Nara area, or maybe up to Shuzenji/Ito area. Easy to get to and back from, great food, nice scenery. Nara in particular is a place I never tire of, most people treat it as a day trip thing but I could virtually live there.

Thanks everyone for your replies and opinions.

I've decided on Gifu instead of Wakayama. I'll save Wakayama for next time when I plan to trek Kumano Kodo (one day!). I've decided to experience a Japan winter wonderland since I'm going in February.

My new itinerary is this:

7th Feb
- Arrive in Kansai International at 8.30am. Take train to Kanazawa - I estimate to reach around 2.30pm in Kanazawa.
- Explore Kenroku-en Garden before the sun sets. Unfortunately that's all I have time for I think.

8th Feb
- Rented a car (a Toyota RAV4 with winter tires) and will drive to Shirakawa-go around 8.30am. Spend 2-3 hours there.
- After lunch, drive two hours to Okuhida Onsen, and stay at a Onsen Ryokan/hotel nearby the Shinhotaka Ropeway. Spend rest of the day relaxing in onsens.

9th Feb
- After breakfast, take Shinhotaka Ropeway and spend about 2-3 hours there. After that drive 1 hour to Takayama. Return rental car near Takayama Station.
- Have lunch in Takayama and explore the old town. I think that's all I have time for.
- At 4.45pm take train to Kyoto. I estimate to arrive in Kyoto around 8.00pm in the evening.

10th to 12th Feb
- Stay and explore Kyoto.
- On 12th morning take train to Osaka.

12th to 14th Feb
- Stay and explore Osaka. We decided we are going to just hang around Namba, Dotonbori and Shinsaibahi areas for shopping and eating. We're not going to see anymore cultural sites or venues.
- 14th morning go back to Kansai International and catch flight home.

I know I'll be missing out on some great sites in Kanazawa and Takayama, but I figure I can sort of make up for them in Kyoto. Its a rather tight schedule in Gifu so I've decided to generally just go and see only the top sites.

If I'll be seeing or experiencing something similar or better in Kyoto, than I give it a pass in Gifu.

Around 2-3 hours for Shirakawago should be enough. Don't miss the mountaintop overlook for the view. And yes, it will be snowy and cold. You can see a preview of it below, but in summer. It is really quite a place.
https://youtu.be/lvtACNNuLUs

I think you should give more thought to the issues of winter driving. The fact that you ask if it is �gchallenging�h to drive around Gifu in winter suggests to me that you are not an experienced winter driver. (I myself have almost two decades of experience driving on snow and ice, and I would not even consider renting a car on vacation somewhere where I might have to deal with these conditions on unfamiiliar roads and in an unfamiliar vehicle. And I would never bother to ask if the road conditions might be challenging.)

People who are unfamiliar with winter driving tend to believe that if you put �gwinter tires�h on a car it takes away the risks of driving on slippery roads. It really only gives you a little more traction, but the danger of a serious accident is still there, especially if you don�ft know how to brake, how to steer, and how to avoid hitting other cars. Furthermore, when you are on a vacation trip and have a fixed itinerary and lodging reservations, you feel a lot of pressure not to change your plans if the weather goes bad. There is a pretty good chance the roads will be fine, but will you really be willing to back out if the roads get slippery? Will you even be in a position to recognize if the conditions are unsafe? (Ice can be worse than snow, and it is sometimes nearly invisible.)

If you rent a car for driving in Wakayama you are less likely to experience winter conditions, although Koyasan could possibly be bad. But hopefully you will still be willing to change your plans in the off chance the roads are bad, rather than risking your life and the lives of others. Why not formulate a plan where you have a cancellable car reservation that you can cancel if the weather doesn�ft cooperate, and lodging reservations that you can still keep if you need to take trains and/or buses (keeping in mind that Koyasan buses may not be operating). If you really must rent a car, do it at some other time of year.

Hi!

I just want to throw out there, if you rent a car in Kanazawa (Ishikawa-ken) and you return it in Takayama (Gifu-ken) you're going to get hit with drop-off fees and they are likely to be decently high. Make sure you know what your fees are.

I agree with @Kim about winter driving, but I shall hope for your sake that it doesn't snow while you are there and the roads are all completely clear and have no snow on them.

If you're curious what people are warning about in terms of driving in snow:

My friend was driving (which is why I could take this photo)
https://imgur.com/a/t46VHQP

That is a real picture of what can happen driving in the snow in Japan. This is from April 25, 2009 from near Lake Towada. We were driving on a road between Christ's Grave and Towadako that closes in the Winter and had only just recently reopened.

If you were renting a car somewhere where you could cancel your rental car day of, I would say rent the car but prepare in case you need to take buses. But while Japan is extremely generous on hotel cancellation policies they are not with rental cars in my experience.

Good luck!

Itinerary is too rushed for a winter snow driving itinerary.

When driving in a known snower region. You need to allow for delays. I would be adding a day to Kanazawa and a day to Takayama. If delayed, there is normally good relaxing time in an onsen. IF not delayed, you have plenty else to see and do that you have left off the list.

I�fm observing a herd mentality and a trend of people with no experience driving in winter conditions, so determined to rent a car for the sake of saving money (bus fare costs 1500\ each & there�fs 4 of us), convenience (we have a lot of luggage, children), don�ft want to wait for buses etc, cited as justifications.

Then the next question they ask is �edo I need snow tires, will it be challenging to drive in icy, snowy conditions�f. They forget there could be blizzards too. Then they add �e I�fm a little worried�f. You shouldn�ft be a little worried. You should be worried big time.

As @Kim has so clearly pointed out, such determined drivers are putting lives at risk. I was appalled to read one inexperienced driver (on another forum) encouraging & telling another inexperienced driver that it�fs extremely easy to drive to the ski fields in Hokkaido in mid winter & that �eyou�fve got to start somewhere to gain the experience�f.

Driving on straight roads on the highway is easy. Driving on roads that curves along steep banks is not & even more treacherous in winter.

Despite all the advice that�fs given on this forum as well as others, sadly I fear a large proportion of determined car renters will proceed with their plans.

Thank you @Kim, @rkold and @aa for your comments on winter-driving. Absolutely I do not have much winter-driving experience. I have driven in snow about a handful of times in my life, but I have never driven during a blizzard before.

@rkold the picture that you attached was a real eye-opener on possible driving scenario, so thank you for that.

Just to correct @aa's assumption on cost of renting a car being cheaper than the bus - My rental of a 4WD car with winter tires for two days with a different drop-off is going to cost me over JPY60,000. And that excludes petrol and tolls. I only have 4 adults so it would certainly be cheaper to take the bus. I choose to pay extra to rent a car for many reasons which are my personal preference.

I've decided though that we'll have to be flexible with our 3 day Kanazawa-Gifu plans based on weather conditions. If the road conditions are treacherous - we'll just have to forgo the car and take a bus. And if the weather turns out to be too treacherous for even that - well we'll just have to stay 2 nights in Kanazawa or return back to Kyoto. I've arranged my rental car and accommodation to be flexible and refundable so I've no qualms about cancelling anything at the last minute.