Home
Back

Dear visitor, if you know the answer to this question, please post it. Thank you!

Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/3 18:35
Hello everybody!

I am planning a trip to Japan with my son of 16. (his first time)

I traveled in Japan before and already did a lot of research. (now and before).
My itinerary so far: (hotels booked except 9-12 July within 5 minutes walk of major train station..

30 june: arrive Tokyo 4pm - stay in Ikebukuro and take a good rest.
1 July: guided climb of Mount fuji from Shinjuku
2 July: come back to Ikebukuro and pass an evening in Tokyo.
3 early morning: use Hokuriku Arch pass (7d) to Kanazawa
4 Kurobe gorge railway day trip from Kanazawa, make a stop at Maruoka castle then continue to Kyoto (arrive late).
5-6-7-8: Kyoto and side trips to Nara, etc etc..
9 travel back to Tokyo with a stop in Karuizawa (waterfall and lunch and..). then back Tokyo (arrive max6pm).
........
........
13: spend half a day in Tokyo. then go to Narita to sightsee a little bit there.
14: morning flight.


We want to spend time around Fuji.. (the fuji climb -guided- starts from Shinjuku and should end there as well). so I decided to do Fuji 5 lakes separately and make use of the Fuji Hakone or Fuji pass to the full 3 days.


So we have July 10-11-12 to do:
- Hakone loop and Mishima Skywalk and zipline
- Shiraito falls
- spend 1 night in Kawaguchiko and 1 night around Yamanakako maybe (east side of the lake)
- I want to do do star trail photography (from the south of Mt Fuji) - yes I know July is not good for visibility. but need to stay in 1 night in the South.
- from Tokyo or from Mishima/Fuji-city area.

So my questions:
- July 9 should I already go to Hakone/Mishima area? or is the Kyoto-Karuizawa-Tokyo too much? (I know its a lot of train time but so be it).

- so for star trails ideally I need a room with wide unobstructed Fuji-view (max 130 euro a night) .. so I can leave my camera out while we sleep. (at least in a safe place: from window, terrace, outside deck). that should ideally be between Fuji city and Mishima. (btw I know July is the worst month to see a clear Mt Fuji). I searched and found some hotels... that can maybe do the job.. but maybe somebody here has experience with that...

- I think since we do the Hakone loop.. the Fuji Hakone pass is the best economical solution. (but has no coverage beyond Mishima and to Shiraito falls): Or is there a solution I have no knowledge of?

- 9 July go to Kawaguchiko and spent the night
-10 start Fuji Hakone pass and do Kawaguchiko area sightseeing. (stay another night or move Yamanakako? (nothing much to do I guess beside view and rest around Yamanakako, right?)
- 11 Go to Hakone to do loop, general sightseeing and Mishima skywalk. and spend night around Mishima/Numazu/Fuji city
- 12 up and down to Shiraito falls... and back to tokyo to spend afternoon/evening

Does it make sense?
I researched time schedules and other options... but I think I need some objective thoughts/perspectives.. because I get stuck..

Should I skip Yamanakako and just spend more time in Kawaguchiko?

Maybe somebody can advice some good places to stay... possibly dark locations or with a good view or special stay... at a reasnoble cost .. or some fun activities in the area that are less known...

Some help/advice would be greatly appreciated...
by Tomandco  

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 06:13
Regarding Kurobe Gorge, there was recently a forum thread on it, the gist of it being that you have to do it as an overnight excursion that you purchase as a package. I didnft pay much attention to it myself since Ifm not going there, but you might want to look into this. Herefs the thread you you can click on the link in the first post for more details if you want:
https://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+180093

Kyoto to Kanazawa to Tokyo with a stop in Karuizawa and then getting to Hakone/Mishima the same day would be too much for most people, and I donft think anyone here would recommend it, so you will really have to decide for yourselves. Itfs not a bad strategy to try to get to your hotel in Hakone/Mishima (as long as itfs not a ryokan), but itfs kind of pushing it and it could be dark out. Research the transit times carefully and get reservations in advance because there isnft a lot of margin for things to go wrong.

Ifm not real clear on your plans for July 9. Are you proposing to go to Kawaguchiko (instead of Hakone/Mishima) that day, after starting in Kyoto and having lunch in Karuizawa? Hmmc.

For me personally, I can easily see traveling from Kyoto to Tokyo via Kanazawa on the last day of your Arch pass, and I might enjoy this including a stop somewhere (Karuizawa would do) for a break from train-riding, but going beyond Tokyo the same day would probably not be fun for me at all. Ifd have an enjoyable dinner in Tokyo and get up early and leave the following morning. With an itinerary that has a number of train changes, the stress of getting yourself and your bags to the right platform at the right time starts to add up. The train riding itself can be fun and relaxing, but the changes can be time-consuming and a bit wearisome, especially in midsummer heat.

I think you need to be prepared for the possibility that you wonft be able to see Mt. Fuji much at all (except when you are on it climbing). Many people who go to Japan base a lot of their hopes on things that are weather or nature related (sakura, koyo, ambitious trekking itineraries, Fujisan) and then are unhappy when things donft turn out. This is really a pity because Japan is so much more than koyo, sakura, and Mt. Fuji. And midsummer is not the best time to see Mt. Fuji. Itfs a good idea to have some backup plans or alternate expectations in case you get skunked on the Fuji stuff.
by Kim (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 07:18
I'm gonna answer your questions first and then give you my 2 cents about something you absolutely did not ask about lol

Regarding going to Karuizawa on the way back from Kansai to Tokyo: It's kind of a detour, in that it would be faster for you to go to Tokyo and then Karuizawa than to go to Karuizawa by going through Kanazawa and all which is what I assume you're going to do. If you want to do that route it would be 5 hours just to be in Karuizawa for very little. If you want to see Karuizawa, I would do it on the way to Kanazawa on the 3rd. That would save you a lot of time. Instead, you could go directly to Hakone and stop somewhere along the way, like Nagoya or Hikone, Hanamatsu or Atami if you want a break from travelling or to grab lunch or something.

For being able to see Mt Fuji from a distance honestly it's luck of the draw. Yes July isn't the best month but I've seen very clearly from much further away in July quite a few times. What I'd say is all those areas (Kawaguchi, Hakone, etc) are quite close to each other and you could book hotels that are cancellable and adjust based on the weather forecast. Last minute could be more expensive (but not always, I've booked a 28$ night last minute because I missed the last train back to Tokyo, it's feasible!) but if this is really important to you, then you can do that.

Now

I know it isn't an answer to your question but I will just say, I would NOT climb Mt Fuji on the second day while you're still adapting from jetlag, unless you're coming in from a nearby country where the jetlag won't be as much.

I climbed Mt Fuji in 2018. I had prepared, I had hiked up many mountains in the weeks preceding, increasing height gradually, etc, sometimes doing 4 peaks in a day to be extra ready, and I thought I would be okay. People said it was an easy hike.

It was not an easy hike, at least not to me and not compared to the other ones I had done (many of which were rated as more difficult than Fuji by the guides I used).

I got my ass HANDED to me by this mountain, and it was very humbling to see elderly people struggling much less. One of the main things that made it difficult was adapting to the altitude. I got knocked off my feet by the wind twice. I did not realize that some places would require me to use my hands to scramble (so had not brought gloves, that one was on me).

You say it's a guided tour and your itinerary implies it is on two days but I'm not exactly sure where they are having you spend the night so here is my advice:

(If you are used to high altitudes and live like, idk, in Colorado, disregard):

If I had to redo it (glad I did it but NEVER AGAIN) I would sleep at 5th base the previous night to acclimate to the altitude at the very least because I felt out of breath just walking horizontally. Honestly, even doing it up and down in the same day is something a lot of people don't advise, though personally, I think that part is fine if you start really early and you're acclimated.

I know a lot of guided tours make you climb most of it, sleep at the second to last station and then climb the rest in the darkness to go see the sunrise at the top. I think sleeping at 5th station the day before is a much better idea. Just my 2 cents.

I would say it took me a solid 6-8 hours to acclimate, of course, it varies by people. The mere idea of doing this while jetlagged? I really, really don't advise that. Especially considering you are with a teen that is likely still growing and all. I'll add that I don't think you necessarily need a guide or group for Fuji. Very easy to figure out on your own and allows you to set your own pace which personally was a godsend. When I climbed, very few groups I saw actually made it all the way to the top. Most people were giving up before the end.
by Pav (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 07:46
Since the nationwide JR Pass had a huge price increase, about the only way to get from Tokyo to Kansai using shinkansen trains (at least mostly) with any type of rail pass is the Hokuriku Arch. Even that is having a price increase soon, but if you do the round trip in seven days it is not a bad proposition, especially if you are able to make some other strategic use out of it. Of course the Tokaido Shinkansen is faster, but if you have to buy round-trip tickets, then for some people a 7-day all-you-can ride Hokuriku Arch pass isnft a bad alternative. You just need to know what you are getting and be okay with the limitations. It is NOT for gthe average tourist,h but the truth is, there are some people who arenft average touristsc

Everyone is disappointed (or worse) about the big increase in the nationwide JR Pass price, but for some travelers this pass will still pay off. Not everyone has the same travel style, and if you have already been to Japan before and know what you are doing, and if you enjoy rail travel rather than sleeping the whole time or keeping your face glued to your cell phone, then something like the Hokuriku Pass can be worth buying.

The western Japan regional passes are still wonderful buys for many alternatives, but for people flying into and out of Tokyo, getting from Tokyo to Kansai is now kind of an expensive proposition.
by Kim (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 08:01
Regarding the comment on Kurobe gorge that was for a new THROUGH route that opened. The normal route to Keiyakidaira is done as day trip. However I think the Noto Peninsula earthquake damaged part of the tracks. But until July it should be running again.

To your trip:
- overall I find it a bit chaotic. Too many hotel changes for my taste
- Karuizawa between Kyoto and Tokyo just to see the waterfalls seems a lot of travel time. I understand that you want to make your Hokuriku arch pass pay off, but is your time really the best investment? Isnft it better to buy single tickets and do Kyoto - Hakone/Mishima/Fuji area - Tokyo?
- I am with Kim on the gdonft climb Fuji with jet lagh. Are t there other yours you could book later so that you can do all the Fuji time in one gsessionh instead of going twice to Kawaguchiko/Yamanakako
- Are you/your son prepared for humid heat? If not, keep it easy as moving outside can be very difficult
by LikeBike rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 09:11
The advice about Fujisan was from another contributor (not me) but good advice, I think. I always allow myself at least couple of days or so on arrival to get my gJapan legsh before I start doing any aggressive travel. Climbing Mt. Fuji would definitely constitute aggressive travel.

The thing about mixing sightseeing with hotel changes, especially with several train changes, is that you have to add luggage management on top of all the other stuff. And if you have to use local transit (trains or buses) to get to a sightseeing venue, pretty soon it isnft much fun anymore. I think that stopping at Karuizawa (or someplace) on a day when you are doing the garchh isnft a bad idea, but I wouldnft want to try to do anything major there.

I think people need to stop thinking of an all-you-can-ride rail pass (especially an expensive one) as a way to save money on point-to-point travel. Itfs a great way to see a lot of Japan and ride some wonderful trains (including confortable limited express trains that take you off the beaten shinkansen path). But unless you really like riding trains and want to build an itinerary around a pass, then itfs almost never a very good use of money. And there are constraints that can be a nuisance.
by Kim (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 15:04
Hello,

First of all. thank you everybody for your input. I appreciate it.

1. Yes, I have considered to move the Fuji climb further down the trip. But as said, it's not an easy climb, I am well aware of that.. And we will be prepared. The thing is.. if you had 10 days of travelling already.. I think its gonna be more exhausting even. I tend to get tired after a certain time...

2. I have been to Japan 4 times.. 3 times I planned everything myself.. (14 days, 22 days and 32 day trip). Yes I build travel around passes.. I agree it doesnt always make sense 100% but I just adjust..

But I try to do things logically..
And I plan things carefully... time wise.
Yes Kyoto-Tokyo is quite the trip. and thats the reason I put Karuizawa there.. to see the waterfall, have lunch.. and just look around. If we leave Kyoto early (first train at 7am), I think we have 5h of time Karuizawa.. to arrive to Tokyo at 6pm.. sounds okay, not? We have to get back to Tokyo with the pass anyway..

So yes.. I will book a hotel in Tokyo for that night.. and just spend the evening there.

3. someone said its too many hotels... but I dont really agree. half of the nights are spent in 2 hotels. I have chosen to do a little more train time.. to cut down on switching hotels.

4. Well I guess I am not the averige traveller.. and I have made real efforts to slow down the pace a bit.. for my son's sake.. I also follow the light.. get up early and maximize day light time.. Most days after (5-6pm its just to have dinner, relax and sleep in time).

I have met someone in Oita that went to Tokyo to do Halloween at that time.. get drunk for 3 days.. spent tons of cash... but that also her choice.. and I didnt judge her choices either...
We are all different and want different things... and thats okay too..

4. As for luggage.. for the Fuji climb: I will leave my luggage in the hotel where I spend the first night: we will return to that hotel after the climb. Other times I will use forwarding or just take it with me. And coin lockers are at most places.. so its not of a big concern to me... Btw we will travel light: I rather choose to wash clothes then to carry around a lot of kg. (I travelled with 12kg cabin sized bag when I was there for 22 days - and a small backpack ofcourse). This time will rent everything we need for the Fuji climb also.

5. My questions actually were about the 3 nights around Fuji and the night before: 3 night in 3 different places will be too much. And as I already mentioned: I am 100% aware July is the worst month for viewing mt Fuji. And my expectation are quite realistic... I was around Fuji 4 days before and only got to see it 1 time... and that was at the end of October. So my chances are not huge.. thats why we will do the Hakone loop (I did before), Mishima skywalk and zipline.. See some waterfalls... and just have a leisurely time.. walking/biking around.

6. I will buy the Hokuriku Arch pass next week. so we still have the old price.. but with extended Shinkansen which will cut time with 35 minutes... even at 30k its still a really valuable pass.. (buying normal tickts would cost 2 or even 2,5 the value of the pass.

7. Yes, I saw the news about Kurobe extention too.. But dont you think the price is a little too much? While it does sound exciting, fun and expensive. its also not the right time.. I will go back to Japan in October/November (around 3,5 to 4 weeks of travel. But I choose to include it now also because it sounds fun and there is quite some things to see..

8.
About train/train passes.. if I need to book an extra shinkansen/limited to save time.. thats what I will do also...


I did get some objective information: we will stay in Tokyo after we arrive from Karuizawa. I will focus less on Fuji.. but plan some fun things we can do... so if there is a clear Fuji.. I will consider that a bonus....




by Tomandco rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 15:18
as for the 9th: yes my intention was to go to Kawaguchikoo or Hakone to save time the next day... and while we are on the train anyway.. I thought it would be best to continue already.

Fuji tour: leave at Shinjuku before 8am. go to the 5th station. The climb to a hut and spend some hours there and eat. try to sleep. Then get up at 130am go to the top.. for sunrise and decend then. Get back to Shinjuku at 4pm.
@pav : did you stay in a hut along the way?

As for the swealtering heat: I think I know what to expect.. I have spend time in Vietnam over the last few years... (North and South, Summer and winter).. But I know what you mean.. the heat is gonna a factor to take into account for sure...
by Tomandco rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 15:25
As for jet lag: We have a evening direct flight... Frankfurt-Narita which will be quite good.
We arrive at 4pm in Narita.
As for jet lag itself: I never have had jet lag flying there.. always when I get back home. So considering we have some sleep on the plane and a good night in Tokyo.. I am not too concenced about it...

by Tomandco rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 15:42
@kim. I have used many different passes already. I have been to Yakushima 3 times. traveled Kyushuu and Kagawa, Ehime, Yamaguchi, Shimane, Matsue, Fukuoka, Kyoto, Kyoto, Okayama, Wakayama and Mie prefectures. I also spent some time in Tokyo... and been to Matsumoto and Nagano...
I have also combined with domestic flights but going to the aiport and flying takes time as well. usually take some time to get somewhere after you land (wait luggage)... So I prefer trains... unless it really necessary..

I think for the nation wide pass... only the 3 week pass can be a real good alternative to the regional passes now.. I think otherwise things will become quite hectic rather quick.. But okay.. every itinerary has its limits and quirks... generally its about weighing time vs cost vs personal style also
by Tomandco rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 16:08
@Likebike
Yes I have considered to combine the climb with time around Fuji (and put it near the end of the trip). but I also want to do the climb guided... to have at least something/someone to fall back to... just in case..
Most guided tours start in Shinjuku... aside from some real expensive ones...

Yes time is important.. and I think my schedule also shows that... but my budget has limits too.

To stop in Karuizawa: to take a break and see the waterfall seemed like a good plan.. and overall its quite manageable.... (taking Tokaido Shinkansen will get gain you like 1,5h.. so that not enough to weigh against the extra costs (around 200 euro for the both of us).

I appreciate everybody's thoughts, input and time...
I had questions about the 4d/3n around fuji and the day before (kyoto - tokyo). the rest I already considered and planned.
And while its always good to hear different view and opinions... I am not planning to change it...

I tried to reply most things...

I will stay the night in tokyo... and spend 2 days in Kawaguchiko (instead of 1 in Kawa and 1 in Yamanakako.. and 1 night around Hakone or Mishima... to cut travel time a bit..
by Tomandco rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 16:21
Most guided tours start in Shinjuku... aside from some real expensive ones...

Ok, but that doesn't mean you have to go back to Shinjuku with them. Making 2 separate trips to that area seems very time consuming.
Can you ask your tour company to drop you at a nearby bus or train station after the hike (for a fee if needed)?
by Mellye rate this post as useful

Re: Fuji/Hakone advice/information 2024/3/4 17:24
@Mellye

Yes true it would be better to stay in the area..
the tours I saw.. clearly stated that you have to return.
and while you could possibly ditch from the tour, from 5th station for example, I just decided to go with the flow... and not to think to much about it... (yes its a couple of hours.. but so be it, we will consider that "rest time").

Returning near the end of the trip also meant we could do the trip, then use the 7 day Arch Pass.
It also meant we had like 5 days after that. 3 for Fuji and Hakone and 1 day for Tokyo and return to Narita.. so we are in the area for the 1030am flight the next morning.

So all in all.. I am quite okay with things now... every decision has up and down sides.. and while I have contemplated and researched different options.. I am still okay with it

Day 1 to 9 I considered to be set... as well as my last night in Narita...

Just the 3 days in Fuji..

Initially I had leave the last 2 weeks of July... but changed it last minute for the flight. Now have a 900euro direct flight. The second part of July the prices of flight went through the roof.. and I think accomodation cost would rise also.. (due to the start of school vacation starts then I guess)
by Tomandco rate this post as useful

reply to this thread