Humble and extra-modest expression?

Hi,

I am currently learning Japanese and I am a little confused with when is the suitable time to use extra-modest form and humble expression. I know for extra-modest expression I need to change certain verbs form such as ‚¢‚é and ‚ ‚é to ‚¨‚é and ‚²‚´‚é respectively, and with adding the �h‚¨�{stem�{‚·‚é�hfor humble expression. I just don't when to use them...

If you are at a beginner's level, I would not worry... just being aware that those forms are there is sufficient :) If you travel to Japan and talk to people like shop clerks, restaurant staff, etc., meaning people in a position to "serve" you, you will hear the "extra-modest" expressions and "humble" expressions." Just about what level of study are you? :)

If you are a student (at a college or at a language school), I would just stay with the desu/masu (polite speech) with the teachers. If in the future you come to Japan and work in a Japanese company, for example, where there is clear "rank and file" in people's positions, that's when those will be used, meaning, the subordinates will use those expressions when talking with their bosses/managers. You will be picking up those usage from your colleagues then :)

‚킽‚µ‚͉ïŽÐ‚É‚¨‚è‚Ü‚·�B(im humbly at the offci right now)
‚±‚¿‚ç‚Å‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚·�B(here it is humbly)

these Kensongo?Sonkeigo? mainli use with elder person, sperior(boss or teacher) or client(customers as well).

regular Keigo or Teineigo used with strangers or with not so friendly and yet so great man.

Tameguchi used with good friends

Hi AK,

I have been la=earning Japanese for about 6 months in my University...So I think I have to at least know these forms... I forgot to mentioned about Honorific Verbs as well, which turns verbs like ‚¢‚é and ‚·‚é to ‚¢‚ç‚Á‚µ‚á‚é and ‚È‚³‚é respectively.

I am just thinking that this form is used to talk about the person you do not know and when talking to them directly. While the extra-modest/humble is used to describe my actions to other perple high up or unknown to you?

Ž„‚͉ïŽÐ‚É‚¨‚è‚Ü‚·�B
i am at my office.
Ž„‚̉Ƃ±‚¿‚ç‚Å‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚·�B
here is my house.

thses are Kensongo or sonkeigo and used with elder or superior(teachers) person and important client or customer.

Keigo or Teineigo is for boss at office or person you meet at first time. some people use it with father and mother also.

Tameguchi is for good old friends and friendly person :)

for sidetrack,bureiko means anything goes and when you drink with yo boss,you can say anything without worry about using keigo words. so thats why many japanis business man go out to drink with boss after work. =P

To be precise, honorifics (keigo) are divided into three categories: respectful expressions (sonkeigo), humble expressions (kenjougo/kensongo), and polite expressions (teineigo).

(1) Respectul expressions are the "irassharu" instead of "iru," and "nasaru" instead of "suru." Those are used to talk about someone else that are senior to you, or talk TO such people as well.

- (A student talking to another student): Sensei ga irasshatta. (The teacher has come.)

- (A student talking to his/her teacher): Sensei wa, ashita no kouenkai ni wa irasshaimasu ka? (Teacher, are you coming to the lectures tomorrow?)

(2) Humble expressions are the opposite of the above; in these you lower yourself (therefore "humble") in respect of people senior to you. Those are used to talk about yourself in relationship to others senior to you.

- (A subordinate talking to his boss leaving on a business trip) Ashita wa kaisha ni orimasu no de, nani ka attara, o-denwa itashimasu. (I'll be in the office tomorrow, I'll call you should anything happen.)


(3) Polite expressions include "...desu," "...masu" forms, and also some expressions that are simply made to sound more polite/gentle, such as "o-tegami" (adding the polite "o" to the word "tegami (letter)," etc.

Thanks AK. Now I get a deeper understanding and distinction between the Honorific and Modest form now :D

Sorry for digging up an old thread. But I just want to confirm something else, on kenjougo.

I have just encountered this term: onegaimoushiagemasu. And I was just wondering what's its difference with onegaiitashimasu, since both are humble forms? Any enlightenment is appreciated. :)

Zyzzyva,

"Onegai shimasu" would be the normal polite level.
"Onegai itashimasu" is the humble expression (lowering oneself, who is asking the other).
"Onegai moushiagemasu" is extra humble, with stronger sense of respect for the other person.

So it means more humble huh. Can I use it for other cases as well? How about using it as a humble request? Is it "masu-kei verb" moushiagemasenka? Thanks AK. =)

Ummm, note that the whole verb "o-negai shimasu" is talking about what YOU yourself do. So you cannot use it like "....moushiagemasen ka," because that would be saying "wouldn't I (do something)."

"...moushiagemasu" can be used for yourself doing something "humbly" for others.

- O-kyaku-sama ni go-renraku moushiagemasu. (I humbly am communicating to our guests/passengers. "Announcement for our passengers." in a very humble expression. - a phrase used at the beginning of an over-the-speaker announcement at, for example, a station about train delays.)

If you are asking someone to do something for you, that means the verb will be referring to the other person, so you can only "raise them" with respectful expression.

For example if you want someone to show you a book:
(Polite speech)
- Sono hon wo misete kuremasen ka. (Won't you show me that book, please?)
- Sono hon wo misete moraemasen ka. (Literally: Can't I be shown that book, please?)
(Respectful expressions)
- Sono hon wo misete kudasaimasen ka. (Wouldn't you show me that book, please?)
- Sono hon wo misete itadakemasen ka. (Literally: Couldn't I be shown that book, please?)

Yeah...I suddenly realized in class just now that what I typed was utter nonsense. Sorry. =.= Thanks for the elucidation!


By the way, in regards to the second post, what if I still use sonkeigo and kenjougo when I speak to my Jpn language teacher? Would that mean that I am distancing myself from the teacher? Or is it simply unnecessary? In schools in Japan, do the students do that? Since it's a pretty clear distinction that teachers are at a higher level than us.

Zyzzyva,

Are you referring to my second post to this thread, dated October 29 of last year?

what if I still use sonkeigo and kenjougo when I speak to my Jpn language teacher? Would that mean that I am distancing myself from the teacher? Or is it simply unnecessary?

That would depend on how "close" you are with the Japanese teacher; also it would depend on what kind of working/teaching? relationships the teacher prefers to have with their students too.

Excessive honorifics might widen distance, that is true. But using simple honorifics like the ones I quoted on that same Oct. 29 post are commonly used, and in my view appropriate when it comes to teacher - student.

Or... teachers might talk to the students in a mix of polite speech (...desu/masu) and plain form (...ru/da), and the students might stick always with the polite speech (...desu/masu). Still, I'm not teaching in a school currently, and I don't have any child attending one, so I'd wait for other input as well :)