Kyoto Itinerary help

I am trying to work out an itinerary for Kyoto bearing in mind that the group has a 21 month toddler and a woman who is 5 month pregnant but to see most of Kyoto. The trip does include other things parts of japan (Tokyo, Hakone & Nikko) but here I have opted to first concentrate on Kyoto. We are debating between Himeji and Nara.

Sat. 25/10 arrive in Kyoto & check into 1st hotel Nijo-jo (Castle + Gardens) Kinkakuji Temple - Ryoanji Temple - Ninnaji Temple - Daikakuji :

Sun. 26/10 Eastern Area/Kiyomizu Temple – Sannenzaka – Maruyama Park – Chion-in Temple – Shoren-in Temple – Heian Shrine)
16:00 change to 2nd hotel

Mon. 27/10 Arashiyama - Tenryuji Temple - Bamboo groves - Togetsukyo Bridge
- Sagano Romantic Train - Hozu River Boat Tours + Small Temples

Tues 28/10 - Walk of Philosophy - Ginkakuji Temple (Silver Pavilion) - Honen-in Temple - Anrakuji Temple - Nyakuoji Shrine - Eikando Temple - Nanzenji Temple

Wed 29/10 - Kyoto Nishi Food Market + Day trip to Nara or Himeji

Thurs 30/10 Imperial Palace – Leave to Hakone

Stella, there are lots of temples and buildings similar to that you will see at Nara. My vote would be for Himeji.
Sagano romantic railway is a bit of a let down if you are looking for something spectacular or different. Really it is just the old alignment used by JR before they built the tunnels. It is a nice river valley but you can see the same thing anywhere. My video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ48qwMQNqU

a) Kyoto - Kyoto - Kyoto - Kyoto - Nara - Kyoto
b) Kyoto - Kyoto - Kyoto - Kyoto - Himeji - Kyoto
c) Kyoto - Kyoto - Kyoto - Nara - Himeji - Kyoto

I'd like c) :)

Nara and Himeji are both a must-see when you visit Japan, but since you have only 6 days, I would visit Himeji. On the other hand, I am not sure if it is a good idea to go inside Himeji castle with a 21-month todler and a pregnant lady, because of the very steep and narrow stairs

One point that many tourists forget is that Japanese temples and shrines aren't like European cathedrals. The later are one building on a square next to houses, stores and cafes. Japanese temples and shrines, especially the big ones, are several buildings--sometimes several dozen or more of them-- in a park setting. This means lots of walking within a temple or shrine. To go to Kiomizu Dera from the nearest bus stop one already has to walk up a relatively steep street for several blocks before even arriving to the temple. From the bust stop near Heian shrine to the shrine itself is an another long walk. from the Arashiyama rail station tothe bamboo grove then the bridge then back is another l-o-n-g walk. Then of course there is the time spent going from a bus stop or train station to a place and back, waiting for buses or trains, the trip itself (Kyoto buses get stuck in traffic and are crowded) etc. In other words your itinerary is well meaning but much too crowded. You got to cut back on the number of shrines/ temples and stuff. You will all enjoy places much more if you take the time to really look at each one very carefully. Also, unless you are specialists of religious architecture and/or wood buildings, many shrines or temples are somewhat similar, much like all Gothic cathedrals are, all Baroque cathedrals are etc. The Imperial palace is another place with a long walk to hardly see anything as tourists aren't allowed to see the rooms actually used by the imperial family. Nijo is much more interesting. I would suggest you go to Himeji rather than Nara as the pregnant lady could, at least, see part of the inside of the castle, look at a truly amazing castle from the outside, and rest in the great big garden. Nara is great (I have been there 3 times) but -again-there are lots of long walks and you will have seen quite a few shrines and temples already.Some of my most favorite shrines aren't world famous ones but small neighbourhood ones tucked discreetly between 2 houses. Their simplicity, and the warm smile of the old monk or old lady who tend to the small garden, are more meaningful than the ostentation of the "big ones" overrun by hordes of chattering tourists.

Thanks for the reaction, it is exactly what I was looking for when posting.
The hard thing is trying to decide what not to bother with and the gage the time needed, there are so many temples.

Given what Monkey see said, I think we will give the Imperial Palace a miss, at least we would have see the one in Tokyo.

What could be dropped without too much regret?

day 1: checking into hotel..you will probably only be able to store your luggage until your return..most check ins are after 1 pm. I would maybe only attempt Nijo-jo, Kinkakuji and Ryoanji. If you can, ride the JR bus to Kinkakuji and Ryoanji..its much quicker and not crowded
day 2: go to Kiyomizudera first, then catch the bus up to Heian Shrine, and walk down from there to Maruyama park and yasaka shrine: you are then back to a bus stop, and not so much uphill stuff. May see some brides at Heian too as its Sunday
Day 3 Arashiyama: give yourselves a break and enjoy the autumn colours and the boat trip, without too much else
Day 5 just do the day trip: Nara is a lot of walking, uphill from the JR station, and the toddler and pregnant lady may be rebelling by now: toddler also MAY be frightened by the very persistent deer
Himeji is a longer train trip, but on the Shinkansen so very comfortable
Day 6 nix the Imperial Palace, (the gardens are better in cherrry blossom season)see the market and then depart
Question: why 2 hotels..lot of mucking around moving : takes time....

don't know whether toddler would like the 2 hour small boat ride.
http://www.hozugawakudari.jp/index.html

I am assuming you are taking stoller for the toddler.

While travelling, I think health and safety sould come first especially you have toddler and pregant lady in the group. Don't overstress youself.

About Given what Monkey see said, I think we will give the Imperial Palace a miss, at least we would have see the one in Tokyo.
The one in Tokyo is even a bigger park and it's not possible to come very close to the actual palace (you'll only see a roof, a bridge and a few gates). Maybe it's an idea to visit one of the two beautiful Imperial villa's in Kyoto (Katsura or Shugakuin), Katsura can easily be reached by bus 33 from Kyoto station, and Shugakuin by bus 5. If walking is a problem, there are many many taxis in Japan, and they are no so expensive

fmj: We could not accomodation for all the nights in one hotel.
Michelle OZ: got one of those light weight strollers for the trip. thanks for the info on the boat ride, thought the boat was bigger!

Walking is not real a problem, it jsut would be the same as if it was just a group of 20 year olds.

As far as what to drop in Kyoto..you don't have to see all the temples listed in a guidebook. Are you aware that there are over 1600 temples and shrines in Kyoto? All of them have something interesting about them, both historically or architecturally, yet who has ever seen all of them?(it is a fact that most guidebooks writers don't see 2/3 of the places they recommend). On Tues 28/10 I would suggest: Walk of Philosophy - Ginkakuji Temple (Silver Pavilion)THEN take the bus back to the JR Kyoto main station (that place is something else,by the way) and take the JR Nara line to Fushimi-Inari (2 stops). The shrine is famous for a walk up a mountain (a big hill really) in the forest under 10000 or so vermillion coloured torii. You can walk all the way to the top and back down by the other side or walk only so far and back. there are numerous places to have a snack and a drink on the way (not as cheap as a 7-11 but this is a once a lifetime). Compared to city shrines this is a change and very interesting. In my teen years I used to make itineraries down to the minute. We sure did see a lot but my parents pretty much had a nervous breakdown at the end of each vacation. Now I make a list of lists of stuff I would like to see then,because I fly standby, never knowing whether or not I will fly today, another day of the week,or next week, and therefore can't reserve hotels in advance, decide on which town to go first in the trip depending on what hotel on my list is open for tonight when I land. I do my itinerary then and there. This has forced me to see places I had no interest in yet found very interesting. I know you can't and don't want to do this BUT you and your friends should be very very flexible. You may find a famous historical building boring yet discover that something not in any guidebook is very charming.Or you just want to stay in one lovely spot for hours instead of rushing to the next "must see" on your list. Don't forget that when you are in another country everything is different therefore interesting. I look at average houses, stores, bikes, trains and trams etc, as much as at famous sights

I totally agree with being flexible but I find when in groups it is good to have a guideline so that not too much time is waste with the humours of each one on the day. Having been on trips with people are too lukewarm to decide, it is better to have a blueprint ready and then see what gets done.
The reason for posting is to check that there is no zigzag across town and find order.

Have a good trip.