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English literacy of Japanese women 2009/8/8 19:47
Hi all! I (a man in his mid 40s) will be going to Japan to continue studying Japanese with my wife (doesn't speak Japanese) who is also in her mid 40s. My Japanese writing skills are decent, but I am afraid people might not understand my oral Japanese. So there will be times I would need to write what I mean or even speak English. Like any other, we prefer hanging around folks our age. Are most Japanese women born in the 1960s able to understand/read simple English? Did most Japanese women of that generation continue their education past Junior high?

Several people have told me that most Japanese women in their 40s don't speak English. They also jokingly recommended me to hang out with Japanese women in their 20s as women in their 20s are very likely to speak at least a little English. Being this old and having a 25 yr old daughter, I will definitely feel out of place, not to mention hurt my marriage by hanging out with women in their 20s.

If you know about them, please share. Thank you!
by Jason (guest)  

yikes 2009/8/9 08:16
ok, i have to say, you sound a little bit too old school for your age. 40 year olds are not all kimono wearing geishas stuck in the kitchen.

there are a lot of corporate 40 year olds and some of them speak english, especially in big cities.

that being said don't count on most people over 30 being able to speak english at all. younger generations MIGHT understand if you write it down but their understanding is usually limited to the words and not the sentence meanings.
by winterwolf rate this post as useful

. 2009/8/9 08:54
Interesting that you are asking specifically about women.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

women only? 2009/8/9 09:09
Yes, most Japanese women of that generation (which is not very old!) did continue their education past junior high- in fact a majority of them in the cities at least would have continued to university or junior college.

That does not mean however that they are likely to speak English at all. The vast majority of Japanese people of any age know quite a lot of English vocabulary, but don't really know how to put it all together into sentences.

Can I ask why Japanese men and non-Japanese people don't come into the picture at all? There are plenty of both here.
by Sira (guest) rate this post as useful

Amusing point of view :) 2009/8/9 09:46
I was born in 1961 and my son (sorry, not daughter) will be in his 20s in a couple of years, and as mentioned, both of our generation have taken a lot of English classes, but that doesn't mean we all speak some English. But I can say this; I know too many women my age who speak/write English a lot better than the average gal in their 20s.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

. 2009/8/9 13:32
My wife is in her 40s and she speaks English very well. She also has a lot of friends that are in the same age range as well as a few younger ones and most of them speak at least a little bit probably enough to converse with you.

I agree with you about hanging out with the 20-year-old, you probably just get yourself into trouble,lol.
by . (guest) rate this post as useful

Awesome insight! 2009/8/9 15:04
Thanks to all of you who have replied. I am pleasantly surprised to get so many responses!

ok, i have to say, you sound a little bit too old school for your age. 40 year olds are not all kimono wearing geishas stuck in the kitchen.

Yes, I indeed feel too old for school. Most of the students will be younger than my daughter! So I won't be attending a school but will be having a personal tutor instead.

Yes, most Japanese women of that generation (which is not very old!) did continue their education past junior high- in fact a majority of them in the cities at least would have continued to university or junior college.

Great to know! I particularly asked about women because in many countries, parents will stop sending their daughters to school so that they can save for their son(s) education (happened a lot for those people of my generation coming from all over Asia).


Can I ask why Japanese men and non-Japanese people don't come into the picture at all? There are plenty of both here.

I am thinking about my wife who doesn't speak Japanese. I am a little worried that she would not be able to have close girlfriends if the women around her age don't speak English. A woman in a foreign country without friends will feel very stressful.

I was born in 1961 and my son (sorry, not daughter) will be in his 20s in a couple of years, and as mentioned, both of our generation have taken a lot of English classes, but that doesn't mean we all speak some English. But I can say this; I know too many women my age who speak/write English a lot better than the average gal in their 20s.

You are the perfect example of a woman in her 40s who speaks and writes better than the average gal in their 20s! I say your English must be the best among your friends.

My wife is in her 40s and she speaks English very well. She also has a lot of friends that are in the same age range as well as a few younger ones and most of them speak at least a little bit probably enough to converse with you.

Thanks for assuring me!


by Jason (guest) rate this post as useful

just to add... 2009/8/9 15:19
Jason,

Doesn't "old school" mean conservative or old-fashioned? :) Actually that was the impression I had when I initially read your post...

parents will stop sending their daughters to school so that they can save for their son(s) education (happened a lot for those people of my generation coming from all over Asia).

That is news to me :) As someone already mentioned, most women of the generation born in 1960s would have attended junior college or university, by which time at least in terms of classes we'd have spent about 8 years of English langauge classes at school/university - anyway at least in large cities such as Tokyo.

Actually, to meet people, it might be advisable to look around for a Japanese language school (maybe classes in small group) that cater to foreign expats/their families, or to look for community classes (organized by municipal government, etc).

From another Japanese woman born in the 1960s.
by AK rate this post as useful

part 2 2009/8/9 16:04
Doesn't "old school" mean conservative or old-fashioned? :) Actually that was the impression I had when I initially read your post...

You are right AK :) I misread it as I was reading too fast!

As someone already mentioned, most women of the generation born in 1960s would have attended junior college or university, by which time at least in terms of classes we'd have spent about 8 years of English langauge classes at school/university - anyway at least in large cities such as Tokyo.

Impressive! Japanese women are more educated than me! I have only completed 2 yr junior college, then got married right after at 19 to my wife who was also 19. If Japanese women born in the 1960s attended university, I am guessing most of them weren't married yet by 24-25?

Now I am thinking I am definitely old school! Back in the 80s, I felt it's best for a man to get married by 25, women by 24. My views have changed though. My 25 yr old daughter is not married, and I am not worried yet.
by Jason (guest) rate this post as useful

Christmas cake 2009/8/9 16:36
Jason said:
Now I am thinking I am definitely old school! Back in the 80s, I felt it's best for a man to get married by 25, women by 24. My views have changed though. My 25 yr old daughter is not married, and I am not worried yet.

Back in the 80s, did the Christmas cake (no good for marraige after 25) belief hold at wheverever you come from? Did the Christmas cake belief also hold for men?

I want to get married by 25. I am afraid of becoming a stale christmas cake.
by a boy (guest) rate this post as useful

what's the hurry? 2009/8/9 16:42
Get married when you find someone you are compatible with, regardless of what age that might be. Rushing into marriage is a recipe for disaster, believe me.
by Shu (guest) rate this post as useful

education 2009/8/9 16:48
" I particularly asked about women because in many countries, parents will stop sending their daughters to school so that they can save for their son(s) education (happened a lot for those people of my generation coming from all over Asia)."

This would not have been the case in Japan since before WW2, possibly not even in the last 100 years.
by Sira (guest) rate this post as useful

the longer version of my answer 2009/8/9 16:51
in many countries, parents will stop sending their daughters to school so that they can save for their son(s) education

Actually this WAS true to a certain extent. Not to save money for the sons, but people simply used to believe that women should not become more educated than the men, and that they should get married as soon as their age comes and focus on home-making rather than careers. This was quite typical nation-wide before WW2, but in conservative areas it was still true in my youth. A lot of my classmates in the conservative all-girl's high school in Nagoya city were told by their parents that they should stick to two-year colleges rather than going to a four-year universities.

What you need to keep in mind, however, is that all the basic English expressions had always been taught during the 3 out of 9 years of compulsive education. Even after that, most people, women included, were taken for granted to attend 3 more years of senior high school where they were taught enough English to catch up with students of English speaking countries their age. So with the exception of the generation who were teenagers during WW2 when English was banned from schools, most women in Japan say 70 years old and younger were always given equal opportunity to learn basic and advanced English as much as the men. Plus, if you limit the info to us in our 40s, we are the so-called "bubble-economy generation" where parents suddenly became more wealthy and decided that women should seek careers in order to become equally wealthy in their future. Sure enough, my schoolmates from that conservative high school all ended up going to four-year universities.

Again, just because you attend English classes, that doesn't mean everyone does well. But generally speaking, female brains are said to be designed to be skilled in languages, and it so happens that a lot of women with less schooling speaks better English than most men with higher education.

You are the perfect example of a woman in her 40s who speaks and writes better than the average gal in their 20s! I say your English must be the best among your friends.

Yes, it is among the best, because I went to grade school in the U.S. So although I am a perfect example to talk about my generation, I am not the perfect example when it comes to estimating the skills of that generation based on me.

Back to your concerns, my best advise is to learn the local language. It's never too late to do so (And how late could 40s be?! My father attends university now learning Spanish!). But if you're not the type, try to find a home in an area that a lot of expats live. For example, if you are to live in Tokyo, Minato-ku would be ideal, and in Yokohama city, Yamate would be nice. Because where expats are, locals who are eager to speak English will gather. In other words, I have to say that it's a bit mis-leading to imply that just because a group of friends speak English, the majority of that generation does too. That's only an example of "Like attracts like."
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

. 2009/8/9 19:05
My mum's younger sister, born in 1961, speaks English in a thick accent. She and many of her friends speak English wrapped in katakana. For instance, she would say "Engrisu ize beri ha-do, Japanize ize beri shinpuru!" (English is very hard, Japanese is very simple!). You might have to adjust your ear.

because in many countries, parents will stop sending their daughters to school so that they can save for their son(s) education (happened a lot for those people of my generation coming from all over Asia).

Those Asian people probably come from Asian countries other than Japan. It can be even worse in poorer Asian countries. Poor parents from those countries would even feed their daughters less (just enough so they don't die) so that their sons can get the best the parents are able to afford with limited money. It's really sad that many girls were treated unfairly by their parents in the past, even today (to a lesser extent). One thing unique about Japan is that most younger couples today prefer a daughter to a son!

If Japanese women born in the 1960s attended university, I am guessing most of them weren't married yet by 24-25?

Most of those born in the '60s from the cities who attended uni got married around 25-26
by CJ (guest) rate this post as useful

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