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De or Ni?
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2010/6/10 19:09
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Hi
I found this sentance in a book I am studying from: [ ABCフーズではじょせいのぶちょうは佐々木さんがはじめてです。 ] which I translate in English to something along the lines of'At ABC Foods, Sasaki san is the 1st department manager'. What I don't understand is, why is it not 'に' in this 2nd sentance : [ ABCフースにはじょせいのぶちょうは佐々木さんが初めてです。 ] ???
To my current understanding of locations in Japanese, で is used to mark the location of an action or event, whereas に is used to identify the location of where something exists, or indicate a state of being (e.g. イギリスに住んでいる).
Surely then with the sentance "Sakaki san is the 1st department manager at ABC Foods" - this is talking about a state of being at ABC Foods, and should therefore take に...but aparently not!
Can anybody explain/help?
Thanks
Andy
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by annascott
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An attempt
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2010/6/11 10:28
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It is the same use of "...de" as in: - Fuji-san wa Nihon de ichiban takai yama desu. (Mt. Fuji is the highest mountain in Japan.)
So it has the function of limiting the scope - "(with)in Japan," "(with)in ABC Foods." "(the tallest mountain) in Japan," "(the first) in ABC Foods." So it is more of scope for comparison within a certain range, rather than the place of action.
By the way, the original sentence says: "Sasaki-san is the first female department manager at ABC Foods," or "Sasaki-san is the first female to become a department manager at ABC Foods."
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by AK
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Your understanding is correct. "de" is used when the place is where the action/movement is. ABCフーズでは、じょせいのぶちょうは、佐々木さんがはじめてです。= At ABC Foods, Sasakisan is the 1st female department manager. vs ABCフーズには、佐々木さんという初めてのじょせいのぶちょうさんがいます。= At ABC Foods, there is the first female department manager, whose name is Sasaki.
In the garden I smell flowers= 庭では花の匂いを嗅ぎます。 I swim in the ocean=海で泳ぎます。 "ni" is used for the place. In the garden there are flowers.庭には花があります。 Fish is in the ocean=海に魚がいます。 I hope this un-clarify a little.
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by ay (guest)
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Hi guys
Sorry for the late reply.
I actually figured out the answer minutes after I made the post - it was a bit of an oversight on my behalf.
Yes - it says 'de ha' because it is an abbreviation of '...(no naka) de' as in the fuji example.
So the sentance actually translates as something closer to "Amongst/within (etc) ABC foods Ms Sasaki is the 1st section chief" etc rather than 'in ABC Foods'. Apologies!
Andy
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by annascott
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