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translating kanji-less script and kono watashi 2010/8/13 07:19
OK, I have been searching around the Internet for a place to ask this and this seems like the friendliest community I've found so far. (And I apologize in advance for this message's length.)

Anyway, I'm a college student and I have taken a few semesters of Japanese and have studied abroad in Japan for one semester, continuing to study Japanese there too. (Though that was two years ago...)

I still watch Japanese TV shows and animation and also play some games in Japanese to keep my mind somewhat refreshed when I don't have anybody to speak Japanese with. One thing I've seen and heard that I don't quite understand is:

この私

''This me''? That way I've seen it used is simply another way of saying ''私'', though saying it in sort of a more pompous way, sort of like オレ様、though not as forceful. So, is that how it is used or am I wrong?

As for the small amount of kanji-less script, it comes from a game that has some dialogue in it. (The first game I've played in Japanese with this much script.) I can understand most of what is going on, though I need to consult a dictionary sometimes.

Now then, this is the script I am having trouble with. (Having a little bit of kanji thrown in it would have helped a lot.) This occurs right after one of the main villains in the game (but not the final boss) has been defeated with the Starlight spell, just to set the context. This ガーネフ character is also an old man, so he also talks like one, at least with わし。

【ガーネフ】
「ぐ・・・・・・
 スターライトとは・・・
 ぬかったわ・・・
 だが おぼえておくがよい
 たとえ このわしが しのうとも
 そのていどの ちからでは
 メディウスは たおせぬ・・・
 ふふふ・・・じごくのそこで
 おぬしらのくるのを
 ゆっくり まつとしよう・・・」

This is what I understand of the script, with the parts I don't understand left untranslated:

[Gharnef]

「Guh.......
Starlight...
ぬかったわ...
Still, remember おくがよい
Even if I しのうとも
You can't defeat Medius with that low amount of power.
Heh heh heh... I will patiently wait for you to come to hell with me しよう...

ぬかった? The only verb I could find that would conjugate into this is ぬう、or to sew or stitch. I doubt this character says something like ''stitched'' in this context. I'm also not sure what the わ is supposed to be, especially since the sentence is incomplete.

おくがよい? If I translate this whole sentence according to what I found in the dictionary that makes a sentence that makes sense, Gharnef says ''Still, it's good to prepare to remember.'' LOL, what? He clearly says remember in the て-form, but おく and よい I can't figure anything out that makes sense in context.

しのうとも? I have no idea what this is supposed to be. Dictionary translation says ''seed pod friends''. ROFL. I'm assuming that this is supposed to say something like ''Even if I was defeated'', which makes sense with the next line.

しよう? I'm not sure what this is supposed to be either, even though I already pretty much understand the sentence.

If someone could help clear these up for me, I would very much appreciate it! Thanks in advance for any help.

PS:

このゲームのスクリプトは難しくないけど、この人の言葉は変です。その他のスクリプトの私の訳書は、たとえば:


【リンダ】
※「わたしは・・・・
  かえるところがありません▼

----------

[Linda]

※「I....
have nowhere to return to.

-------------

【マルス】
※「あっ・・・え?
  きみは・・・・
  おんなのこだったのか▼
※「でもどうして
  おとこのふくを?▼

-----------

[Marth]

※「Ah...what?
You....
were a girl?
※「But why the boy's clothes?

------------

【リンダ】
※「わたしは ミロアしさいのむすめ
  リンダといいます
  ガーネフからにげるため
  おとこのすがたにかえていました▼
※「でも どれいしょうにんに
  つかまってしまって・・・・▼

----------

[Linda]

※「I am Priest Miroa's daughter.
My name is Linda.
While returning home, I dressed like a boy so I could escape from Gharnef.
※「But I was completely caught by the slave trader....


このメサッジの長さと私の下手な日本語はすみません。
by weebo23  

... 2010/8/13 10:23
The verb is ぬかる, means to flunk, make a mistake (somewhat old-fashioned, colloquial word, though).

おぼえておくがよい You'd better remember this/keep this in mind.
(・・・て)おくがいい is a dramatic way to say (・・・て)おくと いい
おぼえておく = keep (something) in mind/memory (te-form of おぼえる+おく)

しのうとも = しんでも the verb is しぬ, to die.
たとえ・・・(う)とも is "even if/should I ever...."

ゆっくり まつとしよう = ゆっくり まとう = I will wait patiently (again in a dramatic way)
by AK rate this post as useful

... 2010/8/13 10:26
この私 does not carry the pompous meaning like オレ様.

For example, you get invited to attend a wedding ceremony and are asked to give a congratulatory speech, then you might say:
この私でよろしければ・・・ (Me, if this humble self suffices.... (I'd accept the role).)

Or let's say, someone points a finger at you and say "you did this, didn't you?" (let's say in school someone breaks the window glass and noone comes forward saying he/she did it) and you might say:
この私が? (Me? (Would I ever?))
by AK rate this post as useful

... 2010/8/14 16:04
Awesome, thank you so much for your help and detailed explanations, AK!

About この私, I suppose that the reason I thought it had a pompous implication was because of the characters' personalities I had heard/seen use it. But, thinking about its actual implication, as described by you, that also makes sense. So, thanks for clearing that up.

おぼえておくがよい... I see why I had a hard time figuring this out. I wasn't aware that おぼえておく meant to keep something in mind not to mention dramatizing everything makes figuring things out worse, especially at my level of Japanese. :P

しのうとも... So then there is a way to conjugate verbs for saying "even if/should I ever..."? You'd basically take the stem, drop the "i" sound for う-verbs and add "o" + うとも?

Even if I drink alcohol...

たとえ お酒を飲もうとも。。。

Is this right? If so, how do る-verbs work?

ゆっくり まつとしよう = ゆっくり まとう。。。 What's the point of the しよ? Is it just colloquial "old man" talk or what?

So then this script...

【ガーネフ】
「ぐ・・・・・・
 スターライトとは・・・
 ぬかったわ・・・
 だが おぼえておくがよい
 たとえ このわしが しのうとも
 そのていどの ちからでは
 メディウスは たおせぬ・・・
 ふふふ・・・じごくのそこで
 おぬしらのくるのを
 ゆっくり まつとしよう・・・]

Would be translated like this:

Gharnef:

Guh......
Starlight...
I screwed up...
But you'd better remember this!
Even if I die,
you can't defeat Medius with that low amount of power.
Heh heh heh...
I will patiently wait for you to be sent to the depths of hell with me!

I'm not sure how to dramatize saying "I will wait patiently" in English... other than adding an exclamation point, lol.

Also, something I forgot to ask about in my first post...

じごくのそこ... "Hell's over there"...
I'm assuming that what the character is trying to say is not just go to hell, but to go further in. ...Is this correct?

Also, I am aware that くる is not "to send." However, saying "I will wait for you to come" makes it sound like the person being talked to will go to hell of their own will. I think the implication is that the final boss, Medius, will basically kill the character being talked to and then he will go to hell.

At any rate, I really appreciate the information. Thank you.

By the way, has anybody ever understood something in Japanese, have been able to explain something in Japanese, but not be able to translate or explain the same thing in English? That happens to me sometimes. It seems like some things that can be said perfectly natural in one language are sort of awkward in the other. But that could be because my lack of experience.
by weebo23 rate this post as useful

... 2010/8/14 17:10
じごく の そこ is じごく の 底, meaning the "very bottom of hell."

About that "I'll be waiting..." bit, I might translate like (a bit of drama added hopefully):

I'll be there for you, I have all the time in the world,
right at the pits of hell for you to come join me!

くる is "to come (in the direction of/to where you are)" regardless of whether it's really intentional or not, so that's OK.

About your last point: that's part of the reason there are professions called translators (written), interpreters (oral), and language teachers - those require skills and/or experience :)
by AK rate this post as useful

... 2010/8/14 17:15
Even if I drink alcohol...たとえ お酒を飲もうとも。。。

It is correct (in terms of grammar). But see, it's already too dramatic :) You would not really use it in everyday conversation/writing. Normally you would say:

お酒を のんでも (te-form + mo)

But just to give you the conjugation for a few other verbs:
のむ のもうとも
たべる たべようとも 
みる みようとも

ゆっくり まつとしよう = ゆっくり まとう。。。 What's the point of the しよ? Is it just colloquial "old man" talk or what?

The form is "(ru-form/dictionary form of verb) + to + shiyou."

It is somewhat an old man's slowy talk, I'd say. "I'm going to (sit back and) do (this or that)" sort of.
by AK rate this post as useful

... 2010/8/16 18:10
Thanks again for all of the information, AK!

LOL, yeah, I would have to say that you added a little bit of drama to that translation. :P

Also, thanks for giving examples on the verb conjugation for "Even if..." phrases. I don't think I ever learned that one. (It just boggles my mind how much grammar there is in Japanese.) So then, to clarify, the conjugation goes:

て-form + も

But to dramatize it:

る-verb: Drop the る, tack on ようとも.
う-verbs: Drop the "u" sound, then make the "u" sound hiragana an "o" one and tack on うとも.

Yes, I suppose the awkwardness of translating from one language to the other is among the reasons why there is a need for professional translators. :)

Like this other bit from the same game. I know what the character is trying to say (I think) but I don't quite know how to say it in English without it sounding a bit off.

【マルス】
※「きみたち
  つらかっただろう・・・
  でも もうだいじょうぶ
  あんしんして かえりなさい▼
※「・・・・
  きみはどうして いかないの▼

-----------

[Marth]
※「It has been very painful for you all...
But now it will be OK.
Relax and return home.
※「....
Why aren't you going?

あんしん is what is throwing me off here. I know it basically means relief, but the context of this small bit of dialogue is right after some child slaves were freed. You wouldn't tell some kids that were just freed from slavery to "be relieved" and go home, LOL. It just doesn't sound right for the situation. "Relax" doesn't really fit that well either, but better than "be relieved" or "don't worry" or "have peace of mind". It could be because I'm overthinking it too. :P

But yeah, I've ran into a lot of these where I can understand them and then think "How would I say that in English?" followed by realizing that I am drawing blanks on either the structure of a whole sentence or certain words.

Anyway, thanks again for all of your help, AK.
by weebo23 rate this post as useful

Something like... 2010/8/16 19:28
Children,
you must have suffered...
But worry no more,
Fear no more, just go home.
by AK rate this post as useful

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