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JLPT past question 2004/9/6 00:00
I came across this question in one of the JLPT Level 4 past papers:
大きい じしょは 友だちの__、小さい じしょは わたしのです。
1.と 2.を 3.に 4.で

I thought the answer should be 1. と meaning ''and''. But the model answer gives 4. で as the correct answer.
I don't understand this. Could it be because the で is not used as a particle but instead is the verb ''desu'' in the ''te'' form?
by Mark  

2004/9/6 10:02
Think of this で as a ;

For example,
マリは学生で、ジョンは会社員です。
Mary is a student; John is a company employee.
by Lynn rate this post as useful

... 2004/9/6 10:36
You’ve got the explanation right! It is the te-form of the verb です, not the particle で for describing location.

So it was actually two sentences:
大きい じしょは 友だちの です。小さい じしょは わたしのです。
and those two sentences were put together by using the te-form of the verb です in the first sentence.

と is used to join nouns.
by AK rate this post as useful

Thanks 2004/9/6 16:47
Thanks again, AK. That's a real confidence booster for me because I arrived at that conclusion by my own reasoning.
by Mark rate this post as useful

Glad to hear that :) 2004/9/6 18:18
I was quite happy to see that you'd reached that conclusion by yourself after the test; that's real learning :)

By the way, you're the one who's been studying Japanese by yourself for two years or so (from another thread)? Just curious, for self study, what textbook are you using?
by AK rate this post as useful

Textbooks 2004/9/6 20:58
Hi, AK. (yes, that's me)
After all your help, I am happy to be of service to you.
I started with "Living Language - Japanese Coursebook" which is printed in the U.S. The way this book was structured was very confusing to me and the explanations of grammar was quite limited. It comes with CDs, but the CDs do not cover everything in the text so you are left wondering how some words are pronounced. The main drawback, however, was that it was all in Romaji and I didn't think this was condusive to anything more than a fairly shallow understanding of Japanese.
I now use "Minna no Nihongo" which is very useful because it comes with CDs for listen practice as well as DVDs to make it even more interesting. This is printed in Taiwan and is very reasonably priced.
I also use "An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese" published by the Japan Times. I bought this while in Japan and though it is good, it is much more pricey so I opted not to buy the package which included the CDs.
Besides these, there are a lot of books here (I'm in HK) from Taiwan which are very cheap and I have bought "iro iro no" books which are JLPT study guides, past papers, mock papers, exercises, "nado".
by Mark rate this post as useful

Thank you Mark 2004/9/6 22:24
Thanks for sharing your learning experiences, Mark. I wanted to asked because I've been wondering what textbooks may be popular nowadays... "Japanese for Busy People" was popular for some time, with its shortcomings, it aimed to provide usable sentences in situational presentations, which I had to compliment with grammar-intensive (but with good explanations!) books like "Japanese for Today." I was just going to recommend this "Japanese for Today" (by Gakken publisher) for you, because this provides (though the texts are somewhat old-fashioned) good grammar explanations for people who want to (and take the trouble to) figure out things for themselves. Whoops, now I see that they are out of print, only available as used books on amazon.com! :( But anyway, nihongo no benkyo wo tanoshinde kudasai!
by AK rate this post as useful

Another "wa" or "ga" question 2004/9/17 19:40
AK and all you other helpful people, please be patient with me. I am still struggling with the "wa" and "ga" issue.
Here is a Mock JLPT Level 4 mock question I have been working on.
えいが ( ) なんじに はじまりますか。
A. が B. の C. を D. は

The given answer is D. は and I don't understand why it can't be A. が because えいが is both the topic and the subject of the verb.

I am also puzzled by the following question which is the next question from the same exercise.

きょうは だれと だれ ( )やすみですか。
A. は B. に C. が D. も

The given answer is C. が which I think I understand, but I'm wondering what this sentence really means. Does it mean: Today, who and who are taking a break?
by Mark rate this post as useful

WA and GA 2004/9/17 20:06
I found this book very good on that subject: "Making Sense of Japanese" by Jay Rubin.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4770028024/serialexperilain
by Kappa rate this post as useful

... 2004/9/17 23:08
Just one rule of thumb here.... I have tried to explain this difference between ga and wa, and still have not found THE conclusive explanation to many students.

When the focus of the sentence is about WHAT or WHO it is that's doing something (= when the subject matters), use ga. When the essence of the sentence is about whether that someone/something is or is not doing something, (the topic is known) it will be wa.

I tried an explanation under "kanji for "no regrets"" a while ago.. and one of my business acquaintances JUST TODAY asked me about the usage of ga and wa... and it still IS difficult to explain :( I must admit.

So in your example, in the sentence about the movie, it was the "WHAT TIME" bit that was the most crucial part of the question; so the movie was not THE most critical bit, so it was not marked by the subject marker. In the other one, "WHO?" was the most crucial part. That's why "who and who" part is marked with a "ga," subject marker.

So the second sentence, complet with "ga," I would translate as:

For today, who and who was it that are/is absent today?? (With the emphasis on "WHO.")

by AK rate this post as useful

Getting there 2004/9/18 00:08
As usual, AK, your input is very helpful. Kappa, thanks for your input too.
I think I still don't 100% understand it, but I do feel more confident that I will be getting it right more often than not.
Let me test whether I understand you correctly. Given what you say, "えいが は なんじに はじまりますか” is correct in normal circumstances, but "えいが が なんじに はじまりますか” can also possibly be correct if used in the right context. For example: Some says to me: "The festival (which includes many events) begins at 4:00 pm, see you there". However, I can't make it so early but I want to make the movie which will be shown as part of the programme so I answer: "I probably won't be there by 4:00 pm, however, what time does the movie (as opposed to other events) start?"
Would it be appropriate to say: "えいが が なんじに はじまりますか" in this case?
by Mark rate this post as useful

... 2004/9/18 12:07
In that case, for emphasis, I think I'd say:

えいが が はじまるのは なんじ ですか。 or
えいが が はじまる じかんは なんじ ですか。

This is more like "What time is it that the MOVIE starts?" and you notice the ga after the eiga. :)

But if I use a more simpler structure, then unfortunately it will be:
えいがは なんじから はじまりますか。

It will not be "ga." :(

This is because another rule of thumb is that when you CONTRAST two or more things, then wa is used. You are comparing the movie versus the festival, so in this sentence "eiga" is followed by "wa," again.

In the first two sentences, here you are contrasting "the time the movie starts" with the earlier "the time the festival starts." So that's why "eiga ga hajimaru no" and "eiga ga hajimaru jikan" is followed by a wa.

I hope I'm not confusing you! I admit those are a real challenge for me to explain.
by AK rate this post as useful

OK 2004/9/18 12:45
OK, thanks for pointing out my mistake. I think that your examples are very useful and as I come across more and more of them, it will come naturally.
by Mark rate this post as useful

よく ない です 2004/9/19 17:30
Here is another question from my JLPT mock question exercises.

おとうとは すきなもの ( )たべるから あまり よくないです。
A. しか B. など C. だけ D. まで

The given answer is C. だけ which I worked out. However, I am having difficulty understanding the full meaning of this sentence, mainly because よく has so many possible meanings.
I believe the first part means "Because my younger brother only eats the things he likes....".
However, for me, the second part could mean "this is not too good" or "he is not such a good boy" or "his health is not too good".
Is it any of these or even something else?
by Mark rate this post as useful

... 2004/9/19 21:29
I'd say the second part is intended to mean "it is not very good" "which is not a good thing" = "this is not too good (for him, or as a habit)."

I guess the authors of the exercises must have tried to make sure they don't use too complicated words/phrases in the exercises; they might have wanted to say "it is not too good for his health," or "it is not a good habit, " etc., but since the essence of the question is to find the correct usage of the adverbial word, they must have kept the rest of the sentence simple :)

I see what you mean about よく or よくない having different meanings; let me give examples of other expressions if the intended meaning was different.

(1) it would be somewhat unnatural to say おとうとは よくないです if the intention was to say that he was a bad boy; mom could say おとうとは よくない こ です (the little brother is not a good boy).

(2) for saying "he is not fine/well (in health)," again the sentence would be something like (おとうとは) あまり けんこう では ありません (he is not very healthy) or からだが じょうぶでは ありません (he is not of very strong physique) instead of simply saying よくない です。

And I guess in Japan it is kind of like a undoubted belief that "eating everything served, without being picky about food, is a good thing"! :)
by AK rate this post as useful

New question 2004/9/20 01:11
OK, thanks AK, that explanation was quite clear. Now let me move on to a new question:

べんきょうが きらいですから だいがく ( ) いきません。
A. にへ B. から C. へは D. とは

The given answer is C. へは
My question is: could には have been also acceptable.
What about just へ or just に?
by Mark rate this post as useful

An attempt 2004/9/20 08:33
You do realize that には(ni wa) was not given as one of the choices. Imagine if へは (e wa) and には (ni wa) were both among the choices, I'd say students would not be able to make the final choice between the two; either is right, I'd say.

It's only that if you compare the following:
だいがくに いく = go to university in the sense that you enroll yourself in the course, attend university, while
だいがくへ いく = go to university, but more in the sense that you physically "go" there,

because へ has a stronger sense of DIRECTION, thus physical direction, thanに.

And because of the above SLIGHT difference in meaning, I would not use just "e" alone.

Now that leaves us with the question of whether "ni" alone is OK. I cannot say it's absolutely wrong, but just saying "ni wa" simply sounds more natural. "Daigaku ni" "wa" ikimasen = "It is TO UNIV. that I don' go" type of contrast is something I see in it (probably this person was asked "daigaku ni ikimasuka").

I guess this explanation isn't that convincing, but the best I can come up with for now ;(
by AK rate this post as useful

All correct 2004/9/20 10:45
OK, AK, so I guess what you are saying is that in the sentence:
べんきょうが きらいですから だいがく ( ) いきません。

へは、 には、 へ、 and に are all grammatically acceptable but using each of them has a slightly different nuance in meaning.
by Mark rate this post as useful

To Mark 2004/9/20 11:10
Almost. Yes, all of them are gramatically acceptable, but には or へは sound natural (I mean that's what would come of my mouth naturally) but I cannot explain why には or へは sound more natural over に or へ alone. :(
by AK rate this post as useful

Another question 2004/10/12 17:18
Here is another JLPT Level 4 practice question which I have found difficulty with:

さとうさんを どこ ( ) みませんでしたか。
a. にも b。かに c。でも d。かで
Ans: d. かで

I thought the answer should be a. にも and should mean:
Couldn't (you) see Sato-san anywhere?
I don't understand the suggested answer.
by Mark rate this post as useful

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