PR after divorce

Can someone please offer some advice regarding applying for PR in Japan after a mutual divorce.

I've been married for 8 years and lived in Japan the whole time, have one child (who is a minor) unlikely to get legal custody due to the law favouring the mother.

Have a permanent job (Seishain) so can support myself.

No other issues.

question is after divorce can apply for PR even though not stayed here for 10 years?

I can apply for PR now with my guarantor not being my wife but that could cause issues with immigration I think.

any advice would be much appreciated.

Have you already divorced? If not: If you have been on gspouse of Japanese national,h and continually living in Japan, you can apply for PR after 3 or 5 years, not 10.

If you are already divorced, at least you should be eligible to change your status to glong-term residenth on the basis that youfd need to be in Japan in order to financially support your child (regardless of whether you have the custody or not).

You might want to consult an immigration lawyer. Best wishes.

Thank you for your reply,

not divorced yet but as I said if I do apply before getting divorced and have a different guarantor, that could cause problems or raise questions with immigration.

I didn't know about this long term resident visa, that could likely be the route if I qualify for it.

Having looked the long term resident visa up seem to get varying answers regarding qualifying for it.

@Sheepus

I know of friends who got caught in such a situation. You are very likely not to get permanent residency. Immigration will do an extensive investigation of your situation, and your wife (who you will soon divorce), is unlikely to be a good or safe guarantor. Nor can you trust that she won't cause drama, say anything negative to immigration, or ask to not be guarantor after the divorce.

You might be able to get a glong-term residenth visa, but there is a bunch of gotchas with this.

1) You will need to have a stable job, that arguably makes over 30,000 dollars (3,300,000) yen.

For the long-term visa, there isn't any official minimum amount given and it is up to the discretion of immigration, but it appears it needs to be a stable job and not something considered temporary or minor.

In fact, immigration will ask for income tax, resident tax, and possibly insurance paperwork. It can be like you were renewing a work visa. So, you might arguably be better off getting that instead, if your company will agree to sponsor you.

2) It is discriminatory against foreign men, because they usually don't have custody of the child and the former Japanese spouse might speak against them.

A foreign woman with custody of a child who is a Japanese national in Japan, is way more likely to get the long-term resident visa.

For the foreign man, you have to show that you are providing essential financial support (and emotional support) to the child, and your divorced wife has to say so too.

Keep in mind that some divorces are quite ugly, in terms of animosity between the previous couple. If the divorced Japanese wife speaks against you in such matters and doesn't want you to visit the kids, you can be denied the long-term resident visa (add the job situation to that). This is not a theory, have seen this happen to a few guys.

If you are seeking permanent residency and already have spent 8 years in Japan, you also have the option of going for a work visa. 2 more years, and you can apply for permanent residency. The key is having a stable job. This will be essential if you apply for the either the long-term resident or work visa.

Sheepus,

About the guarantor: they do ask for tax papers of the guarantor as well, to see that the guarantor has a solid financial background. So for that reason, you gcouldh say that your wife doesnft make much money but insteadc and have someone else be the guarantor. Maybe. I donft know.

On another thread, it was established that Rejo and I have had quite contrasting experiences when it comes to immigrationfs attitude toward non-Japanese male, so just to let you know, individuals go through different experiences when it comes to this. (My husband is non-Japanese, and he went from work visa to spouse then eventually to PR, during which time he was unemployed for a few years, not-yet-stable freelancer for some years, a company employee for a while, freelancer with stable income for the rest of the time.) Best wishes in any case.

@AK

I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing up a previous thread into other threads. The advice that I'm giving is so the foreign person will not be blindsided and unprepared when dealing with immigration, which can result in them being kicked out of Japan, despite they would prefer to stay.

One of the keys of being able to stay in Japan for a foreign person is having a decent paying stable job, so that they can be considered self sufficient. In the event of a divorce, especially for a foreign male, this will be a major factor. Even when it comes to applying for permanent residency, this will again be the primary thing looked at.

Japan changed its laws in 2019, making permanent residency even more difficult (and Japan is one of the most difficult in the world). One of those changes is about taxes and showing the ability to make an independent living.

Now, married foreign persons seeking permanent residency must provide 3 years of income tax, resident tax, health insurance, and pension. Failure to show this can mean rejection of the application.

This is why I emphasized having a stable job. The foreign person must show the ability to make an independent living, which appears to equate to 30,000 dollars a year (3,300,000 yen) or greater. And have paid all required taxes and insurance.

If you are applying for permanent residency via a work or long-term visa, the requirement is even higher. They must provide 5 years of income tax, resident tax, health insurance, and pension.

Furthermore, Japanese immigration can reject the permanent residency application under the vague non-requirement of "not in the interest of Japan". This can be a myriad of undisclosed things that they dug up during the investigation, where Japanese immigration doesn't feel comfortable with the applicant. It is said that it can be such things as unpaid debts (by the foreigner or Japanese spouse), negative statements made by the Japanese spouse, sexual affairs discovered in the investigation, etc... Many applications for permanent residency by foreigners are rejected, or they have to apply multiple times (over many years) before finally getting approval.

I'm happy for the situation of you and your husband. But keep in mind, maybe you got lucky. And you are a Japanese national, not a foreign person living in Japan. How you look at things is very different from the foreigners living in Japan. What their situations are can be very different from yours. The point of my advice, is that foreigners should be wary and prepared, otherwise they might get caught in a bad situation. And I have seen exactly that happen.

Rejo,
I write in because just like you have had some unfortunate experiences, we (meaning my spouse and I) had some experiences that significantly differ from yours, which I wanted to share about (including the employed-or-not part, though this part is not quite relevant to the OP because he does have stable job).

I referred to another thread because I did not want to repeat the whole talk over again here, that was all.
I am not trying to paint an all rosy picture, which it has not been for us either. But we have different experiences. And of course we form our views on matters based on what wefve experienced, so thatfs just that.

Thank you once again for your replies, you have provided some nuggets of information that will be really helpful in my next move.

I think I now realise that it won't be a good idea to apply for PR after divorce as yet, I actually tried back in 2019 so I did my research regarding all the requirements, it was an ideal time as my wife wasn't working so I didn't need much information from her side, however it turned out bad as my company at the time lost a big contract meaning my department was closed, so my earning that year went way down. As someone previously stated you need to prove 3 years worth of consistent income over 3.2m yen per household(at that time), that was my reason for not getting it, I suppose you could say it was my bad karma!

The 'Long term resident visa' is new to me, I didn't know about it so it's something I will look further into so thank you for the information on this type of visa.

I'm sure it is not much different to renewing spouse or even applying for PR with regards to the information you need.

I did not think this visa would exist but many other people have been in my same situation so surely Japan wouldn't just kick them out the country, so as much as it's not a certainty to get, I feel a little more relieved and at ease that I won't be kicked out the country after six months.

Again thank you for the information it has been more than helpful.

Best wishes to you, Sheepus.

@AK

Perhaps you are not getting the full scope of where I'm coming from. I'm referring to not just my experience, but those of many other foreigners that I've met and know. My circles of friends and acquaintances include foreigners from many different countries that live or have lived in Japan.

And you are right, we have to be careful of simply painting a rosy picture (like Japan is a perfect place), when that is not the case. I know that the image of Japan is very important to her people and nationalism exists in all countries. But, at the point that what is being stated is hiding the truth or reality, then it might become more like propaganda that can negatively affect many foreigners. They can be under the false impression that things go a certain way, when they do not. Those foreigners who clearly understand the reality, are better prepared and will be doing the necessary things years in advance.

It is not to say that Japan isn't a great place to live, it is just to say that people should know the truth and reality. Which I think is the point of this forum.

If you notice, the OP understands and experienced what I typed about the permanent residency requirements. In addition, it also refers to the statements I made in the previous thread that foreigners are seen as a source of tax revenue to support the state. Thus part of the strong emphasis on tax documents. Which now includes emphasis on paying into Japan's national health insurance and pension plans too.

Something to know is that many foreign workers (those in Japan for more that 3 years) will never get their full pension money (will receive only 3 years) unless they become permanent residents (a significant number will never get this). The OP might be in this situation, as he may have worked in Japan for many of his 8 years.

Additionally, your perspective and circles are very important too, but I don't think we should make it as me versus you. Rather we should state what we know and have seen, in the hopes that it will be helpful.

@Sheepus

Long-term Resident Visa VS Work Visa

From your original post (married 8 years, child is Japanese national, & stable job), you have a good shot (better than most) of switching to long-term resident. But another gotcha about it, is timing. You can attempt to switch to the work visa at any time, and before you get divorced.

To apply for the long-term resident, looks like you must get divorced first. Then it becomes a dangerous situation, as immigration will usually revoke your marriage visa after 6 months. So you need to apply for it as soon as the divorce happens.

By applying for the long-term resident visa sooner rather than later, if your application is rejected, then you can attempt to apply for a work visa. 6 months is plenty of time to attempt both, if necessary.

Another advantage of the long-term resident visa is that there is no limit on the type of jobs you can do, similar to the marriage visa. Where with the work visa, you have to stay in a particular category (like engineer or humanities) and if you switch jobs then you must report that to immigration.

Keep in mind that in both cases, long-term resident or work visa, you need to make at or greater than 30,000 dollars (3,300,000 yen) a year to have the best chance for approval.

One of my friends, despite having children who were Japanese nationals, had his application rejected because he was "not properly employed" (was doing temp type of work) at the time (plus it was a nasty divorce). He had been married for only 2 years. He did later come back to Japan on a work visa (and to see his kids), but his time for applying for permanent residency was reset to zero. Meaning he would have to wait 10 more years on the work visa before attempting to apply.

According to his story, another issue in his situation was the timing of his divorce. His marriage visa had only 2 months left when they separated (he ended up temporarily living with other friends) and then getting divorced. This was a huge blunder on his part, because he didn't have the type of job that paid good money or would sponsor him, and was scrambling to get one. Immigration did him no favors, so he ended up having to leave Japan. If you have not already done so, try to avoid getting divorced so close to the time of extension/renewal. If the divorce will be mutual, then make sure you are properly prepared.

Short of obtaining permanent residency, the long-term resident visa would be considered the next best thing. However, it is said that immigration tends to initially give 1 or 3 year periods. And can do so annoyingly and repeatedly. The less money you make, the less likely you are to get the 5 year period. They will also check all tax and insurance on every renewal. But, this is actually a good thing, because if you have the tax and insurance paperwork for 5 years in a row, your odds of getting permanent residency are greater.

I have seen your negative sentiment towards Japan and its system and it's quite misleading sometimes.
Just some fact corrections.

> Something to know is that many foreign workers (those in Japan for more that 3 years) will never get their full pension money

This is not a matter of his nationality.
Japanese nationals keep paying pension in since they turn 20. Even if he hasn't started working yet.
If the said foreign person hadn't started paying at this age, it can't be "full pension money".
How much one can get is calculated by how much he has paid. It's just that there is not a privilege for foreign nationals to get what they haven't paid.

> his application rejected because he was "not properly employed" (was doing temp type of work) at the time (plus it was a nasty divorce).

Immigration wouldn't take the situation of the divorce into consideration.
Even if the foreign person insists the reason existed on his spouse's side, who knows.
"The reason for the divorce is not counted" should be a proper explanation.

Objectivity will make your post a bit easy to read. Just my two cents.

"I have seen your negative sentiment towards Japan and its system and it's quite misleading sometimes.
Just some fact corrections." -- Tai

Being ultranationalistic and trying to bully foreigners in order to hide the truth, silence them, or force them to say what you want is not a worthy or honest goal.

I have no negative sentiment towards Japan, the perception of any "negative sentiment" is your personal opinion and can be about excessive sensitivity or fragility. Rethink what you are trying to do and how it looks.

You can't "correct" the life experiences and opinions of foreigners who have lived in Japan or even other Japanese, so that it will be what you want to read or hear.

"Japanese nationals keep paying pension in since they turn 20...
If the said foreign person hadn't started paying at this age, it can't be "full pension money"."--Tai

Clearly you don't know what you are talking about. Please at least do your research or actually have and talk to some foreign friends. Foreigners don't need to have been paying into the pension system since 20 years old.

In order for foreigners to receive pension benefits they must pay into the system for 10 years, or they can received a lump payment if they had paid into the system for at least 6 months.

However, there is a huge gap, which many foreigners fall into. If for instance they had worked in Japan for say between 5 to 8 years and leave Japan, they will only receive a one time lump payment up to 3 years. That means the remaining pension money is kept by Japan and they will never see it. If they take the lump payment, then return to Japan, the amount of time they must pay to receive pension benefits is reset to 0. Thus they must stay and work in Japan for 10 more years (and will only receive pension benefits on that).

Many foreigners in Japan who are married, can have gaps in the years worked. They can have been married for 8 years, but worked 5 years. If they get a divorce and leave Japan, they too will fall into the scenario above. Not receive the full amount of pension for the years worked. Out of the 8 years worked, will only get 3 years worth from a lump payment. This is a matter of fact, that can be verified.

"Immigration wouldn't take the situation of the divorce into consideration.
Even if the foreign person insists the reason existed on his spouse's side, who knows."--Tai

You missed the part that the person I was referring to is the foreign father of Japanese national children. In fact, I know of other similar situations. It is not simply a matter that he got divorced or the reasons for it, but that kicking him out of the country means he couldn't see his children. That is clearly devastating.

""The reason for the divorce is not counted" should be a proper explanation."--Tai

This additional explanation that you want to force, perhaps to promote the impression that Japan is a perfect place, is nonsensical.

One of the requirements to get the long-term resident visa, is that the foreign person must prove they are able to support themselves financially. In that case, the foreign person didn't have a stable job that made enough money to qualify for a long-term resident or work visa.

This is another problem specific to married foreigners in Japan. They are able to do any type of work. This could be a club bouncer, part-time English tutor, cashier, temp construction, etc... These various types of jobs can be fine for a married couple that has 2 sources of income, but aren't making enough money to be considered financially stable (or possibly considered unacceptable types of employment by immigration). Their application can thus be rejected.

It is in the best interest of foreigners to know of such things ahead of time, so as to avoid havoc in the event of a divorce, which might come suddenly. One of the hardest things to do, is to scramble to find a high enough paying job on short notice. Also, the hiring process in Japan can take a long time and consist of 3 to 5 interviews in various cases.

"Objectivity will make your post a bit easy to read. Just my two cents."--Tai

I agree with you that objectivity is important. This is not something that only I should consider, but yourself as well. There are different sides of a story. Presenting only a Japanese side that portrays a false image of "perfect place" or "happy land" (while actively attempting to silence any who might not go along with this), is not objectivity.

"Yes, dear foreigners. Japan is "happy land", where rainbows shine brightly every day. It is a perfect society, that is better than all others on Earth. You will be greatly impressed and marvel at all things Japanese. Particularly their superior intelligence, ingenuity, and culture. Remember, all things here are fantastic and perfect, and be sure to say nothing else but this." Is that more to your liking and sensibilities?

As mentioned previously, Japan can actually be a great place to live and temporarily visit for foreign people. However, the point of the forum is to provide real, honest, and helpful information, not propaganda.

@Rejo

Thanks once again for your information, last option would be asking for my company to sponsor me, though its a small company I'm not sure if they would plus, as much as I get on well with the shyacho I don't want them thinking they have more control over me if that makes sense.

I'm just about to do some research on the required documents and process for 'long term residency' as previously stated it's a new one to me, so I can be prepared for when the time comes then I can act quickly.

Who said living in Japan is easy? Haha

to Sheepus

Rejo isn't accurate.
https://www.tn-office.jp/14101395152166
https://office-loop.biz/practice/divorce/
read the above sites, if you can understand the language, you will know that it can be done by yourself.
all you need are mostly gŒ³•ÛØl and the documents which prove you are hired with appropriate salary.
’èZŽÒŽ‘Ši is different from A˜JŽ‘Ši.
probably, because you have 8 years marriage term, you can get ’èZŽÒŽ‘Ši easily, when you have a job of ³ŽÐˆõ and properly apply the change to immigration office.

all you need is correct information. that is mostly written in Japanese. English information is often inaccurate and biased by the writer.

one of the above site also indicates that, when you get 3 years term of ’èZŽÒŽ‘Ši, you can apply ‰iZŽÒŽ‘Ši. that information may encourage you.

good luck

@Ken

The fragility and nationalistic fervor is unnecessary. Go back to the previous posts and re-read what I wrote. If you don't understand English well, this might be causing you confusion or clouding your opinion.

What I wrote was very accurate. Not only that, but it is from the perspective of foreigners who had to deal with such, not from the perspective of Japanese nationals who don't. There is a big difference between theory and actual experience.

I also suggest you find some actual foreign friends, then over the course of many meetings and many years, learn about their stories and interactions with immigration. At that point you might be more helpful than simply throwing website links from Google, which anybody can do.

You didn't provide any new information to Sheepus, that was not stated in the previous posts. Instead, you created an inflammatory post. By the way, here are some issues with your post that demonstrate a lack of experience about the subject:

1) Getting the long-term resident visa is not so "easy" as you may think.

Sheepus didn't specify the type of job that he was doing. So we don't know if it is the type of job that immigration will approve of. That job must also pay enough so that the person is considered as being financially stable and self-sufficient. In addition, there are other requirements that he must meet and documents to give, as specified on the paperwork. Definitely, all of his tax and insurance paperwork must be in order.

Many foreigners will also be "directed" to apply for a work visa instead of the long-term resident visa, which has greater restrictions, and is arguably quite disrespectful of their situation and time in Japan.

There is no guarantee of approval of a long-term resident visa.

2) Getting permanent residency isn't as "easy" as you may think.

A lot of foreigners never get approval for permanent residency. There is only so many times that a foreigner can submit for approval, after that you can't get it, ever. And I mean, never.

If you can read English, you would know that Sheepus was already been denied approval for permanent residency, despite being married and a father of Japanese national children.

Just because the person got the approval for a long-term resident visa or work visa, and has been in Japan for 8 years, does not mean they will easily get permanent residency.

Add to that, he must present the necessary tax, insurance, and pension paperwork. There will also be a lengthy investigation. Immigration reserves the right to deny permanent residency for any reason they see fit or as the result of their investigation, even if the proper paperwork was submitted.

3) The number of years given for the long-term resident visa or work visa can be for only 1 year.

There is no guarantee that a 3 year or 5 year visa will be given. Not only that, but if the period of the visa is only for 1 year, the person can't apply for permanent residency. They have to wait until a 3 year or longer visa is given. It can also be, for whatever reason, that immigration gives multiple 1 year visas in a row.

@Sheepus

You are welcome.

I totally understand the thinking about the work visa, because things can get odd when you need to ask the company for sponsorship after already working there for a while or years. Especially if the company has never sponsored anybody before, it can get even more wonky. Additionally, because of the greater leverage in being the sponsor, it is hard to say in what new way that a boss or manager act. For example, why give that salary raise or bonus, since they are now the sponsor?

Definitely prepare yourself in advance and find out all you can about long-term residency. You may want to go to immigration directly and ask them "hypothetical questions" about everything that you will need or any potential issues.

In order for foreigners to receive pension benefits they must pay into the system for 10 years, or they can received a lump payment if they had paid into the system for at least 6 months.

This link explains one more option that citizens of certain countries have:
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/agreement/status.html

I agree with ken, hope you find proper English information or and things go well.

@Rejo
As mentioned above, I observe your knowledge is frequently incorrect. It should be probably because you are talking based only on information in English, as mentioned by others, and stories of your "friends".
I just pointed out your emotional writing out of prejudice and limited experiences and it's not "propaganda".

Anyway, OP will consult with a Japanese professional. That's the best way, I think.