First 14-day itinerary in November 2022

Argh! Stupid autocorrect!

Thatfs Keisei Skyliner and Limited Expressc

On the plan with the 7 day JR pass, you will be removing travel from NRT to Tokyo from the pass, and adding the round trip to Himeji. Each leg of Shin-Osaka to Himeji is 3610 yen. Okayama is a little further away from Shin-Osaka station, and has a wonderful walking garden. This could be the hike you wanted to add. The garden opens at 8:00 AM, and Himeji Castle opens at 9:00 AM, so you can start at the garder in Okayama, the the Castle, and then back.

The Thunderbird Limited Express train from Kaga Onsen goes to Kyoto station and then Shin-Osaka station, so you can choose either location on the Shinkansen line. I believe hotels near Shin-Osaka station are less expensive.

Anyway, sorry for the weird typos, and as ever, good luck in planning you vacation.

I hate to make things more confusing but figure I should throw this out there...

If you're not likely to go back to Japan in the next 10 years a Welcome Suica is pretty useful:
https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/en/welcomesuica/welcomesuica.html

I got one with a NEX special in February 2020 because I'd misplaced my actual Suica. The plus of a welcome Suica is you don't need to put down the 500 yen deposit and you just need to run through any money on the card before you leave. You can add money as needed like a regular IC Card. For me, I spent the remainder (plus some) on some cookies, gum, and Pokemon merchandise at the airport and brought home my empty Welcome Suica.

I also want to say, while I really enjoyed Matsushima, it's a good 2.5 hours from Ueno each way. I like Kamakura, but it's an hour+ south each way. I don't see why you would want to add 2-5 additional travel hours into your day on top of 2.5 hours to Kurobe/Unazaki Onsen.

Personally, if you don't need a day in Tokyo and assuming you are using either the Hokuriku Arch Pass or a 1 week JR Rail Pass, I would go to Nagano. It's on the way, there are an insane number of large lockers right outside the station and I believe a left luggage counter within the station on the inside walkway to the Metropolitan Hotel. It will shorten your trip later in the day and there is a lot to do in the Nagano area depending on your tastes. There won't be snow but you can visit the monkey onsen (about 1 hour by bus), day trip to Bessho onsen, (involves backtracking to Ueda, but Nagano has better connections for when you leave and has better luggage storage) Heck, you could even go to Togakushi and see their shrine and do a little hiking. The plus of Nagano is it is on the way to Kurobe/Unazaki Onsen. So even if you add on a trip of ~1 hour from Nagano to Togakushi or Jigokudani Monkey Park, once you get back to Nagano, it's only 1 hour more to your ending destination, because it is in the direction you wanted to be. The oyaki you can buy in the shopping center in the station are really yummy and a traditional snack for the region. My daughter loved the seasonal kambocha flavor.

Good luck!

Rkold: You are correct. Matsushima Bay is a little too far. I probably should have said Hitachi Seaside Park instead, for an extended trip north with a rail pass. I actually checked the parks website, and the Kochia were pulled up on November 9th this year. I am planning a fall 2022 trip myself, but I plan to arrive in Japan on October 27th, so I plan to go there.

If all of the goals in Tokyo have been met, then an early exit from Tokyo to see snow monkeys is a wonderful idea. Long distance trains start rolling around 6:00 AM (cUghc), so 6-9 AM can also be used for long distance travel without using up precious daylight tourism time.

The trip from Ueno to Nagano is only 75 minutes, so do that in the early morning, and go see the snow monkeys.

To the original poster: Should you really want to do a Kumano wilderness hike on the Kii peninsula, after finishing up Himeji, you would return to Shin-Osaka Station, collect your bags, and then take the Ocean Arrow (cool name for a limited express train. I believe they use a different name now, but it will always be the Ocean Arrow to me) to Tanabe (Hyperdia will call it KiiTanabe station) for the night. Check the Tanabe Tourism website for hiking information (elevations and lengths) for legs of the Kumano trails. There are busses from Tanabe to points along the trail.

You could return to Kyoto after hiking a portion of the Kumano trails.

Thank you, RKold, for your suggestion.

No problem. And if original poster wants to see a famous temple, well Zenkoji in Nagano is just awesome. I find the majority of tourists there are Japanese tourists vs. temples where the majority of tourists are foreigners. I really like the underground temple part of Zenkoji. That was also my favorite part of Kiyomizudera. The leaves should be pretty, I was in Nagano and Ueda in late October.

Getting to the snow monkeys you can either take a direct bus from Nagano Station or take a local train to Yudanaka and then a bus. The Nagano tourist Authroity in the Station is super nice and very friendly and can help point you towards whatever you need. Yudanaka, Shibu and Kanabayashi all have ryokan and onsen. Kanabayashi is the closest to the monkeys, but I think Yudanaka and Shibu are more like actual onsen towns. I would not be surprised if they opened their baths during the day time. I stayed in Kanabayashi and it was an easy walk to the bus stop and a slightly longer and more energetic walk to the monkeys. Any of the 3 are also another option if you want another ryokan night, since again, it's a short trip the next day up to Kurobe There is baggage transfer from Nagano Station to many of the ryokan in the area if you get to Nagano by noon, though there is a fee for the service. I used that service to send my bag from Nagano to my ryokan so we could spend the day at Shiga Kogen.

It's been a long time, but I would never stay near Shin-Osaka Station again. It's not dangerous or anything like that.. just really really dead. I mean maybe it's changed, but when I was there it just had mediocre business class hotels with tiny rooms with tiny bathrooms and nothing else really. No real restaurants or cafes, no shopping, it's just sort of there. I would personally not choose to stay there even though it is very convenient. I seem to recall paying around 7000-8000 yen for a single and last time I was in Kyoto I paid around ~110 USD for double (my daughter often counts for occupancy) so I am unsure it is that much cheaper since Kyoto has had a enormous hotel boom over the last 5 years. For several years, every single hotel I stayed in was brand new the year I stayed in it.

@rkold
It's been a long time, but I would never stay near Shin-Osaka Station again. It's not dangerous or anything like that.. just really really dead. I mean maybe it's changed, c

Nope , hasnft changed. I have been staying pre COVID for the past 3 years about 2 months every year close to Shin Osaka station in a hotel or monthly apartment and this part of the city continues to be as dull as possible. I would only choose a hotel there if it were for one night and Ifd need something close to the Shinkansen station.

Yesc Shin-Osaka Station is pretty dead. Since my target destination is Himeji for the following day, I could have suggested going all the way to Himeji. That is a three hour trip. Kaga Onsen Station to Shin Osaka Station is about two hours. The final leg can be done in the morning. I suggested Shin Osaka Station because it is the hub that connects JR Central and JR West train companies. It has more trains going different directions.

My idea was that the poster would finish in Kanazawa around 4:00 PM, and go back to Kaga Onsen to collect their luggage., but it might be more like 6:00 PM before he starts back to Kaga Onsen. He would then need to collect his luggage and get tickets to his hotel. It would make for a long night.

If he does want to do the Kumano hike, like he suggested in the original post, the train heading south down the Kii peninsula starts at Shin Osaka Station. This fits well into a day trip to Himeji, returning to Shin Osaka Station, collecting the luggage, and heading south to KiiTanabe Station.

Thatfs why I suggested it. Itfs more a waypoint, than a destination.

The transfer from either shinkansen or JR local at Shin-Osaka is relatively easy. Without luggage, I got to the point where I could do it in 3 minutes. And yes, I was doing it to catch a Kuroshio down towards Kii-Tanabe, because I use to stay with my JET friend in Kainan and would day trip to places because I liked seeing my friend. We would regularly continue onwards to Kii-Tanabe, because our other JET friend was located there.

Honestly, I think even staying in Shin-Osaka, it's just a lot of day trip travel. We're talking just 5 hours on trains to get to Tanabe, without needing to take a bus to actually start one of the hikes, I like Tanabe, I want tourists to go there, but for a day trip when you are starting in Osaka and ending in Kyoto it just seems like a LOT of travel. There are a few direct Kuroshios from Kyoto to Kii-Tanabe. You just need to time for them, again, because I use to take them going back and forth from visiting JET friends.

I think Original Poster needs to decide how much time they truly want to spend sitting on a train every day. I like trains, I personally am find sitting on a train and doing a few long day trips per trip. My kid is not, so now I try to always think of things in terms of, is doing whatever tourist activity worth sitting on a train or a bus so and so many hours. Again, some people have no problem sitting on a train traveling long distances, but it is something be aware of and Original Poster talked about wanting to chat with people and I find outside of some small local trains, (and I think that is only because High School girls think my daughter is adorable) I think I've only once had a stranger get chatty with me on a shinkansen or express train.

If they are dead set on going to Kii-Tanabe, I'd stay the night in Tennoji maybe instead or even Wakayama and do the longer trip post Himeji. I'd stay in Kyoto night 7 and and then go back there night 9. I would ask at my hotel if they could hold my bag until I come back, most hotels will (AirBnBs and Hostels generally will not) and take a small bag with me to Himeji and then would head to either Tennoji or Wakayama for the night. I've never stayed overnight in Tennoji, but I would imagine it has gotten livelier since they built Abeno Haruka and Wakayama is still more lively and more interesting than Shin-Osaka. Starting in Wakayama, instead of needing to catch a 7:33 to get to Kii Tanabe by 10, they could catch the same train at 8:48. If they take the next Kuroshio at 9, they won't get to Kii Tanabe until almost noon. (and again will then need to catch a bus.)

I love the idea of Kaga onsen though. I think it makes so much more sense than Kusatsu. I want to say if Original Poster wants, there was an article in 2019 or 2018 here on Japan Guide about staying in Kaga Onsen and it looked super appealing.

@LikeBike, I'm sorry you've had to stay long term near Shin-Osaka. I really hope when you move back to Japan you can live elsewhere. My friend in Osaka lives closer to Temnabashi and it seems much more like a neighborhood there.

Ifve only had one hotel in Tokyo hold my bags for a day while I did an overnight in Nikko. I just took an overnight bag to Nikko.

The best train transfer that I had from Shinkansen to regular trains was in Okayama. I only had six minutes, and I did it in about two. I then freaked out a bit, because someone was in my designated seat on the express train to Shinjuku Island. I ran back out, and showed my ticket to the platform conductor and he chewed out the guy that was in my seat.

I usually get a first class green JR pass, especially when traveling down the Kii peninsula in a wide view train. I try to get seat 1D, for the unobstructed view out the front of the train. The area around KiiTanabe station is very nice, but I usually go to KiiKatsurra station to go to the resort hotel Urashima. I like the sea cave hot springs there.

All this is off topic, but am guessing that there are many of us that are chomping at the bit to return to Japan, and just want to join in on planning a vacation. My current plan starts with boarding a cruise ship in Seattle, and taking a trans-pacific cruise to Japan. It arrives on October 27 in Yokohama.

Is mid-November too late for the Kurobe Gorge train? I have included it in mine, and I know itfs a good place to go for fall colors. I may be going 20 days earlier than the original poster.

Itfs possible that I should have originally suggested stopping in Nagano Station, instead of Shin Kurobe station.

Sorry OP, going completely off topic here 😉

@rkold
@LikeBike, I'm sorry you've had to stay long term near Shin-Osaka. I really hope when you move back to Japan you can live elsewhere.

After considering it for quite some time (I love Kansai and the variation it offers for the weekends, but I feel at home in Tokyo), I have decided to live in Tokyo again. But Ifll be going to Osaka regularly, but luckily the new company isnft in Shin Osaka. So no need for me to stay there. What I hadnft decided yet is where to live in Tokyo. I am kind of thinking of trying out the Ueno, Yanaka, Nippori areac just because they are more central, but I think ultimately I will probably end up again in the Shimokitazawa area. But well, I still have time to decide once I make it to Tokyo.

Sorry to original poster..

@LikeBike, that sounds like it could be really nice! My friend who lives in Tokyo has moved around quite a bit, but most of her apartments have been terribly small. My friend in Osaka has a *MUCH* nicer place, she recently bought a 3 bedroom condo. The bedrooms are small, but for a person by themselves outside of a cat it's a lot of space. My friend in Osaka has PR.

@EbayChucky311, I agree that it is exciting to see positive posts about potential itineraries. I just got my booster on Saturday and my kid recently got her first shot. I'm hoping we'll be able to go back to Japan over the Summer and I am planning my itinerary now lol I'm hoping the TEP Pass will come back, as I really like having a car in the Tohoku region. I want to convince my daughter to go to the Dewa Sanzan with me, only Haguro-san was open when I went before she was born.

Seattle is a great city, though you might be too early for our koyo and we also start getting our rain in October.

I use to do Kainan and KiiTanabe to see friends, so I did limited sightseeing. My friends had to pay out pocket for travel because as JETs they couldn't get most rail passes. I've only done a green car once, I usually stick to regular passes. But yeah, I did under 3 minutes repeatedly because I did not want to miss my train because it meant missing dinner!

I've had a few hotels that held my bags a few days, it's not all that different than if you had the bags takkyubinned back to the hotel. Last trip, the Tokyo Station Hotel held my bags for 3 days and even allowed me to exchange a few items when I passed back through Tokyo to stay at Tokyo Disneyland. It was quite nice.

I've not personally been for koyo since '09. But I have also lived in New England and now the PNW, so I feel like koyo is less special for me than hanami. Though my old neighborhood in Seattle had spectacular sakura. No place I've lived on the East Coast compared. Oddly, while they're not the flowers people really go to Japan for, I've yet to live anywhere else that compares to Japan for hydrangea or azaleas..

I hope we all get to go to Japan soon!

RKold: we have places with pretty good Azaleas in Dallas, but they require watering. I was amazed at the Rhododendrons in Seattle, as well as in Chichibu. I would think that Azaleas would also grow well in Seattle.

I am more of a fall colors guy, and my first trip to Japan was end of September to mid October, and I expected to see fall colors, like in New England. The original poster probably has the better time to catch fall colors in Tokyo and Kyoto, because he is going at the bottom half of November. The main fall-ish things I do remember is food. I remember getting roasted chestnuts and sweet potatoes from street vendors, and Taiyaki stands.

I also want to see the Kochia at Hitachi Seaside Park, as well as the cloud inversion In Takachiho. These are late October/early November things to do. I think Ifll be satisfied overall. The Japanese Alps should also be in season.

@Ebaychucky311, going off topic...

We have two small azaleas and one small hydrangea here, but it's not the same as Japan. It's like... I have three Japanese maples in my yard. They are lovely to look at and it gave me a sense of koyo. 3 trees, or 2 azalea bushes in a ryokan garden or hotel garden is lovely, but part of what makes the huge impression in Japan is seeing so many in a garden or in nature. It's like with Fall Foliage in New England. Part of what makes it so spectacular is seeing all the trees everywhere and on roadways as you drive. So when I lived in New England, there were singular sakura trees, but it wasn't until I moved to the PNW that I saw neighborhood streets lined with sakura trees like in Japan and it was spectacular. But I don't really know any amazing gardens with lots of varieties of azaleas or huge hydrangea gardens. Until '03, most of my trips to Japan were in the Fall. I use to see a lot of green bushes by the side of train tracks in Tokyo. I just thought they were bushes and sort of well.. boring. My first Golden Week, in '03, I realized they were azaleas! It just made Tokyo a lot prettier. (And I've since learned many of the other bushes are hydrangea!) Most of the flowers I see in medians here are roses are lavender.

I so hope your trip works out, I am hoping to go back this Summer. :D

@DennisSchmennis

I've visited Japan 2 times for a total of 6 weeks in 2017 & 2019, if you want any tips from someone from the Netherlands just let me know.
We can arrange a call to talk about it, I can even share my Google Spreadsheet with itinerary.

Thank you all. This is even more than I expected, so lots to think about!

Everyone, this is amazing. This gives me incredible amounts to mull over, thanks! No need to apologise at all - I'm enjoying the community and hope that writing and reading these posts gives you as much joy and distraction from this bloody pandemic as it does for me.

So far, I just wanted to get a few things straight that some posters have touched upon. I do not really have a budget, I plan to spend approx. 3000 euros for the whole shebang: that is, flights, accommodations, transport, food and drinks, souvenirs, etc. If it turns out to be more, no problem. Less, also fine, of course.

Based on the tips I have received, I have decided to simplify my itinerary somewhat to the following:

-Tokyo (4 days, incl. day trip to Nikko)
-Kanazawa (2 days, incl. day trip to Kaga Onsen)
-Kyoto (7 days, incl. day trips to Himeiji, Nara)
-1 miscellaneous day to add to one of the above

While I do not mind travelling by trains (ekiben!), I find myself wanted to include everything-everything-everything, so limiting my stays forces me to dive deeper into that area instead of just dipping my toe in.

The one thing I'm wondering with all the passes is not so much whether it's financially beneficial, but whether it's worth it. I heard that the JR 14 Day Rail Pass considerably lessens the effort of seat reservations and simplifies train travel in general - or is just really good marketing at play here?

I'm leaning towards skipping Koyasan, or including it as a day trip, as proposed. I find myself daunted by the prospect of having to carefully plan that bit of the trip in particular. It also seems to stretch the itinerary too much in terms of distance, time and effort to include it. My wish to hike a portion of a trail has been fulfilled by some of the useful tips on this forum, and I am assured that I'll see plenty of (if not, too many) temples and historical buildings. I guess killing your darlings is part of planning such a trip like this.

Once again, thanks all! Grateful that so many people took the time to respond as extensively as this...

14 day jr pass will be triple the cost of Tokyo to kanazawa to Osaka tix.

Sadly, the 14-day JR pass typically ends up being such a bad deal cost-wise that even if you take full advantage of the non-monetary benefits it is often just unappealing. I have purchased many 1-week and 3-week passes over the years, but only once was I able to make a 14-day pass even come close to paying off. A pass does simplify ticketing and reservations to a certain extent, and I like the ability to use it to travel without reservations at all. So I donft think it is necessarily gthrowing your money awayh to get a pass that costs a little more than point-to-point tickets. But you have to get practical at some point if the differential is so great that you could really do something substantial with that money.

Itfs kind of too bad that you have reduced your onsen experience to a day trip, because staying at a ryokan is an entirely different ballgame. But adding another accommodation change does tend to complicate your trip. You have a nice simple basic structure now, and there is a lot to be said for that.

You are right that in planning a trip like this you have to make many compromises. But you will have such a full bucket that there is no point in worrying about the fish that got away. Save them for the next time.

Remember that you do not have to limit your ekiben experiences to train rides! I often buy bento sets at train stations (and other places) and enjoy them in my hotel room. And by the way, I like the ekiben offerings in Kanazawa, in the market area on one side of the station (the side that doesnft have all the non-food retail stores). Kyoto Station also has some nice places to buy them. And Tokyo, of course. Costwise, they are typically not the best way to procure a lunch or dinner (a restaurant will often give you fresher food, and more of it, for the same price or less, but they also charge a lot more for beer, so it can work out to be about the same, plus it is sometimes nice to eat in your pajamas or underwear), but they are definitely fun. It helps to have a nice view from your hotel, if you arenft in a train that offers a moving one.

I want to assure you, that when I was handed my JR pass, I did not hear a choir of angels, and when I went outside holding my JR pass, the clouds did not part, and a beam of sunshine did not come out of the sky to illuminate me.

While in Tokyo, I am pretty sure that my advice of staying near Ueno Station is a good choice for you. You can use the Keisei train to get to Ueno Station, and an IC card for the first few days.

If you donft want to go to Nikko, I would understand. According to the Fall Colors Reports on Japan Guide, Nikko will usually hit itfs peak fall colors a month earlier. (Peak colors reported in Nikko on October 13, 2020; October 26, 2018; October 17 & 23, 2017; October 18 & 28, 2016, the reports go back to 2008 on this site)

I would highly advise spending overnight, at least once, at a Ryokan in an Onsen Town. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I think Onsen time is about 4:00 PM to about 9:00 AM. I have done day trips to Onsens, and I have fond memories of going to a day trip to an Onsen near Kawachi Fuji Gardens near Kitakyushu, Japan. I think the multi-course dinner included with the overnight is part of the experience.

While you are in Kyoto, you will find that the JR pass does very little to get you to places around the city. It will help you on day trips away from Kyoto, but other than Himeji, you didnft list that many.

Yesc On the first and last day of your trip, you will need to get to an airport, and that is a long distance travel. A private train, the Keisei Skyliner, is a direct train that goes to Ueno Station. There is no direct JR train going to Ueno. Getting a JR pass will require at least one transfer of trains, and will cost you more.

I really donft think a 14 day JR pass is a good investment.