advice for learning japanese?

I just wish to add an apology for my misleading info regarding kana. As soon as I posted it I realized my mistake.
There are 46 hiragana and katakana but they do not make up all the sounds. Chonchons (two small dashs at the top right) and Pyonpyons (small circles at the top right) change the sound of some of the characters.
k" is a g sound (eg. ka becomes ga)
s" is a z sound (eg. sa becomes za)
t" is a d sound (eg. ta becomes da)
h" is a b sound (eg. ha becomes ba)
h�Kis a p sound (eg. ha becomes pa)
Of course this applies to all the characters starting with these sounds.
In response to someone's question about romaji, I found a romaji - English dictionary in Sapporo when I first arrived in Japan. It was very convenient when I was starting to learn the language but don't get too addicted to romaji. Once you know hiragana, I recommend getting an electronic dictionary with a qwerty keyboard that allows you to enter Japanese words in hiragana just the way they sound. It will also convert hiragana to kanji. It's really important to keep using the language and not resort to english or romaji wherever possible. I've been back home in Oz now for nearly two years. I try and keep using Japanese by writing letters in kana but it's slipping away. I need to go back for a holiday!

It's me again! It's over 40 degrees today so I'm hiding inside in the a/c reading the forums about Japan...Japanese seems to be bewildering at first and impossibly complicated. In fact it has very strict rules and very few exceptions. Apart from kanji, it's actually pretty simple when compared with English.
I taught English in Japan for a while and I really felt sorry for the students trying to learn a diabolically difficult language with endless exceptions to the rules and no clear guide when it comes to spelling or pronouciation.
Japanese pronounciation has no exceptions. Just like English there are 5 basic vowels. Unlike English they are always pronounced the same way. That is why I recommend learning kana instead of relying on romaji, which can be spelled in many different ways and isn't very accurate.
The 5 vowel sounds are a, i, u, e, o.
'a' as in argue
'i' as in igloo
'u' pronounced oo as in food
'e' as in extra
'o' as in October.
Many visitors pronounce these sounds differently depending on their accent but it's important to try and speak with a neutral accent.
For example, in Australia most people pronounce Tokyo as Toe-kee-oh whereas it's actually closer to Tor-kyor because both o's are extended.
In kana, a horizontal dash (�[) is used to extend the sound of a vowel preceding it. Extending the sound of a consonant needs a small tsu (‚Â) after the character. This character isn't pronounced, it just indicates you shouldn't rush the sound.
It can be quite important to pronounce consonants correctly as they often change the meaning of the word. For example, In Hokkaido, there is a town right at the very north called Wakkanai. It's pronounced Wukka-nye. The word for "I don't understand" is wakannai, pronounced Wukunn-aye.
If you buy a dictionary, it usually will have a pronounciation guide in it.

I've just started to teach myself Japanese online. And I'm lost between all these different pronounciations. So far I have seen the letter "A" pronounced as
"ahh", "aww", and "as in argue" (Not sure how that last one is supposed to be pronounced) and I keep seeing people refering to Kanji and a few others... Can some one straighten these out for me? Thanks.

My sympathy. It's really hard to learn to pronounce something by reading it off a page. Best would be if you could find a kindly Japanese speaker to pronounce things for you, next best would be to get a tape or something so you could listen to the sounds. Fortunately, at least the vowel sounds of Japanese syllables are rather easy to learn. The sounds change slightly depending on position in the word and so forth, but basically there are five sounds, which are normally rather short and clipped, but can be held for two "beats"--just voicing them for a longer time. [These are not pronounced with a separation between the "syllables" such as you find in Hawaiian, for example (perhaps you know that "Hawaii" is supposed to be pronounced with two separate "i" sounds on the end--this doesn't happen in Japanese).]

All these vowels are similar to the sounds in Italian or to some extent in Spanish.

"a" (ka, ha, ma, etc.) - like the "a" in "mama" or "cha-cha" (the dance) or, in most American dialects, the "o" in "hop". The long form is usually written "aa".

"i" (ki, shi, ni, etc.) - like the "i" in "kiwi" the "e" in "become". The long form is "ii"

"u" (ru, ku, zu, etc.). This is a tough one. Most speakers of English add an extra sound to "u" so that it comes out like "yu" or "eu", as in "pure"--or, as they say in California, "Dyoood!" This additional sound doesn't happen in Japanese or many other languages. Maybe the sound is like the "oo" in "pool" or "kangaroo", but clipped (not held as long).

"e" (he, Zen, etc.) - like "e" in "men" or "let". The extended form is often written "ei" which sounds more like the English long A in "way".

"o" (mo, to) - like "o" in "rope". Lengthened form is often written "ou" but this is just the sound of the "O" in "Tokyo" or like the "o" in "go-o-o-oal!"--not "ow" or "ou" in "you" or "about".

Vowels: Really pretty simple. Easier to do than to read about.

Thank you! I continued to study while I was waiting for a reply and you have just confirmed, for the most part, I was doing it right (I like how you gave multiple examples), just one thing you said that I want to confirm... So "ei" would be pronounced like in "say" or "jay"? It's a little strange since you would think it would be "eE" (e as in pet followed by E as in see) Is their any other exceptions like that? And isn't there another pronounciation for names? I know I read somthing to that extent.

In fact, "ei" is much like a long A. If you speak an American dialect (not sure this applies to Australian), try saying the word "may" s-l-o-w-l-y. You should be able to catch two vowel sounds running into each other (a "diphthong"). The later of the two sounds is the "ee" you're speaking of, and the earlier sound is "eh". So "eh" + "ee" = long A. And in Japanese, prolonging the "e" ("eh" sound) very nearly turns itself into "eh" + "ee" = long A. And the prolonged "e" is usually written "ei". Think of the word "weigh". It's actually not an exception but well within the "rules".

There isn't a separate pronunciation for names. If you see a J name written out in roman letters, you can sound it out just like any other word in J. Pronouncing Japanese (not perfectly, but acceptably) is the easiest part of learning the language. The consonant sounds are slightly trickier (the "g" sound is slightly different depending on whether it's in the middle or the beginning of a word, for example) , but NOTHING like the mess that is English.

What about sounds with an "I" sound like in "hi" or "tie"? How is that achieved? Or for Japanse words like Samurai...

"Samurai" gives you the answer. Look at the end of the word = "ai"

Say "tie" very slowly. You should hear the diphthong "ah" + "ee" = long "I". Same sounds in Japanese, written a + i = ai.

So, whenever 2 vowels are together it changes the way they are pronounced. And the way I brought up Samurai is because people are already pronouncing it wrong here so I needed to know how bad... How would you say to pronounce words with the letter "r"?

"R" -- now THAT is a tough one. I am not sure you can learn this sound without having a Japanese speaker model it for you and listen to your attempts and try to help you. Let's just say it has elements of English "R", of "L", and of "D". There are lengthy discussions in some texts of how to form your mouth and position your tongue, which I am not going to try to duplicate here. Try some Google searches on Japanese pronunciation because you will probably have to read 5 or 10 different descriptions before you find one that clicks with you.

What is the difference between are, sono, sore?

ko- here by me
so- there by you
a- over there, not near us

kore : this thing
sore : that thing near you
are : that thing by neither of us

kono : this {object to be named}
sore, are : that {something to be specified}

Does it make a diffrence wether you say are or sore?

Also, just wondering, is Japanese your native language, Watagei, or did you learn it on your own?

Difference between a- and so- (therefore are and sore) is as described above.

I learned Japanese living in Japan for 3 years as a young adult. No formal training, and it was a LONG LONG time ago, so my vocab has diminished but--some things do not get forgotten.

By "no formal study" I mean no classroom study. Both in Japan and later I did a great deal of academic reading (on my own) concerning historical Japanese and other linguistic matters.

I just want to thank you again for all your help. I think I'll be fine for a while, because I'm found some new software that I really like so far, it's called Power Japanese. I just hope your still hanging out at this board if I need help again.
Arigatou.

YW and good luck.

i am learning japanese and wish to eventually speak it fluently....but i watch japasnese shows on youtube.com and they have subtitls. and i learned half of my vocsbulary on youtube.com and the rest from the final fantasy 7 advent childern DVD. so...watch some anime...its one of my favorite hobbies! so...if you hear "nah" then see what it says on the sub. and you'll know what it means!=D (by the way, nah means okay in jap.)

Ha ha, I forgot about this thread which I pretty much took over, nearly 4 months ago! Actually I already started doing exactly what you said a while ago (I too used Advent Children! great movie BTW) And as for an update I'm now officially going to college in Japan in 2007!

I would concentrate on learning to speak Japanese, before going all-out with writing it down. Once you know how to pronounce a word, reading it on paper becomes much easier.

Of course, one will need to write in Japanese and so time must be given to it, but chances are that one will be speaking Japanese more than writing it.