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... 2011/7/27 12:55
I doubt if I posted the same critical views under the name "Takeshidesign" you would regard it as condescending. It is because you see it as not my place to judge. Sorry I don't wish to play the role of gaijin guest.
There are many people from who I have learnt a lot on this subject of food safety...I would refer to Uco`s earlier post for considered and factual information. I don't pretend to have an in depth knowledge, I just comment on my experiences and opinions, If you dont agree that is fine. It is good to hear a variety of opinions. I just wish it wouldn't get personal like the comments from def and Uji.



by gilesdesign (guest) rate this post as useful

red herring 2011/7/27 14:03
I doubt if I posted the same critical views under the name "Takeshidesign" you would regard it as condescending. It is because you see it as not my place to judge. Sorry I don't wish to play the role of gaijin guest.

gilesdesign,

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't think that people don't agree with you because you are a foreigner assuming an anti-Japan stance. Perhaps they just think your argument isn't supported by the information.

The fundamental debate here is about who to trust. Some believe that the government is working in the people's best interest, while you seem to believe that their top priority is to protect business. It comes off as a little conspiracy theory, and I think this is what is triggering the negative reactions.

So let's not try to distract by playing the racism card. It only reinforces your conspiracy theory image. If you were posting under a more "Japanese" name we'd just think you were a foreign media influenced, conspiracy minded Japanese rather than a foreign media influenced, conspiracy minded foreigner.

But this discussion is getting way off topic. The original question was whether or not it was safe to eat fish and vegetables in Tokyo, and pretty much everyone, Gilesdesign, Uji, and Uco included have agreed that IF contaminated food were present (without acknowledging whether it is or isn't present) it would not be especially harmful to short term travellers who will have limited exposure.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Not anti - Japan 2011/7/27 14:51
Please don't refer to me taking an "anti-Japan" stance that is untrue and unfair. As I have said many times I am very pro Japan. I have many friends who are pregnant or with young kids and I care about them and the people living in tohoku which is why this issue is important to me. I think the polls suggest that the majority of Japanese are dissatisfied with the governments handling of this issue (Uji I don't think either you or I reflect the opinion of the average Japanese maybe it is somewhere between), On the issue of sources of information I think the government has public health as a priorty but sometimes those priorities conflict with economic and political priorities. I think you over simplify the debate by suggesting we either choose the government or the media. I think the best way is to get your information from a variety of sources that you feel you can trust. Only you can decide who to trust but I doubt it is as simple as just media or government.
by gilesdesign (guest) rate this post as useful

.. 2011/7/27 15:12
The original question was whether or not it was safe to eat fish and vegetables in Tokyo, and pretty much everyone, Gilesdesign, Uji, and Uco included have agreed that IF contaminated food were present (without acknowledging whether it is or isn't present) it would not be especially harmful to short term travellers who will have limited exposure.

So does that mean the answer is "yes" if this question is posted in the travel section and "mostly" or "maybe" if posted in the living section?
by Jimmy (guest) rate this post as useful

simplified debate 2011/7/27 15:28
I think you over simplify the debate by suggesting we either choose the government or the media. I think the best way is to get your information from a variety of sources that you feel you can trust. Only you can decide who to trust but I doubt it is as simple as just media or government.

And I agree, but also note that the simplification was intentional. Most people have neither the time nor the experience being a resident in Japan to appreciate the nuances here. Just realize that saying that you believe foreign media over the Japanese government and their media lapdogs IS being read as an anti-Japan stance. But my point was intended to be that you don't need to make it a racial issue. We disagree with your argument, not with who you are.

So does that mean the answer is "yes" if this question is posted in the travel section and "mostly" or "maybe" if posted in the living section?

Its more like "probably" if you are a traveller, and "do more research and decide on your acceptable level of risk" if you are a resident.
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

@Uji 2011/7/27 17:42
Just for the record ...I never had a problem with you or others disagreeing with me. I think it is useful for us all to hear a variety of opinions.
I only had a problem when you labelled my views as ''condescending'' and ''anti-Japan''...I cannot get my head around why you would say that unless you see my opinions as an outsiders comment on your country, I like to think that as I pay taxes and I live here that I am a part of Japanese society. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning, Sorry.
by gilesdesign (guest) rate this post as useful

just passing by 2011/7/27 18:32
One of the saddest things about this whole crisis is that, most of the time, people are trying to say the same things, but since they say it in completely different ways they start arguing.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I gather the majority of my information from official websites of ministries and municipals, NHK news, NHK "Asa-ichi," original Japanese versions of Asahi Shinbun, as well as actual experiences of people whom I directly know. I also bookmark and scrapbook so that I can look back and view the information objectively ('cause I get illusions, too).
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

... 2011/7/27 19:24
I think what everyone can get from this is that there are wide ranging opinions within Japanese society about this issue. I do appreciate Uco's level headed attitude, it kind of clams me down.
As Seiko's comment suggested, Japanese people also feel frustration and uncertainty about if they can rely on the Japanese government to deliver fast and accurate information. This critical thinking and criticism of the governments handling is apparent among Japanese at the moment. Uji seems to present foreign visitors with this facade of "everything is fine" and that any criticism of the government or negativity is just because of hysterical foreign media. I think there is a tendency towards this style of delivery when directing information towards foreigners...especially foreign visitors. It is almost like there is some duty to portray Japan in a positive way to outsiders regardless of the turmoil or confusion going on inside the country.
Lots of this anxiety and frustration is evident especially in those rural areas directly affected with kids at school etc...I'm not sure foreign media has much impact in those areas. So we can't label them all
as foreign media influenced conspiracy theorists.
by gilesdesign (guest) rate this post as useful

exactly 2011/7/27 21:57
Thank you again Gilesdesign. I completely agree with you but you've just managed to say it far more eloquently. My husband is Japanese, my parents in law are Japanese and my child is Japanese. So of course I love Japan and the people but why should that mean that I have to accept the lying government (and yes they are lying or at LEAST witholding the full truth..pssh call my a consiracy theorist!) and pretend that everything is just fine. There is NO WAY I would say to friends with young children hey come and enjoy eating japanese beef right now - the media, huh, why they are just making things up! If that is what YOU want to do then by all means no-one is stopping you. Jumping on posters and branding them hysterical as soon as anyhting even slightly "bad" is said about Japan is totally ridiculous and it happens on this forum far more than I care to suggest. (not going to name names..) Japanese is a fantastic country but it has it's problems just like everywhere! Have a nice day all :)
by abc (guest) rate this post as useful

My Thoughts 2011/7/27 22:40
Hi There:
I've gotten fantastic, invaluable information from this Forum for the last three years and just want to add my two cents.
The primary people I have relied on for expert information have been Uji, Uco and Dave from Saitama. But I also have really enjoyed reading comments from gilesdesign. I appreciate everyone's comments, even if I do not always agree. Sometimes the "nuances" of different languages and cultures will seem to have an "edge" but I do not know for sure what anyone is thinking while they are typing (I'm thinking of McDonalds right now!) BTW, my background is American, of Japanese extraction, but I've worked closely with Japanese nationals for almost 40 years. I hope that we will continue to read ALL of your wonderful input.

Regarding the initial subject matter of food safety it is up to all of us to make reasonable decisions on our own by using all trusted sources.
by 56Premiere rate this post as useful

yes I agree 2011/7/28 10:26
Yes I agree Uji , Uco etc all give expert information and have a very in depth knowledge of matters related to Japan.
This is a very specific issue to do with issues as a result of the March 2011 disaster that we are discussing in this thread.


by gilesdesign (guest) rate this post as useful

more info 2011/7/28 14:01
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110728n1.html?utm_s...

An interesting article just released today by Japan Times (via Bloomberg?)....

Ocean radiation tests may ignore threat to seafood.

The government has to release more data from ocean radiation tests to accurately assess the contamination threat to seafood, according to a statement by the Oceanographic Society of Japan.



The government should release radiation readings in seawater that are below its minimum measurement level, because even at those low quantities the radioactive elements may pose a danger when concentrated in seafood, the group, which counts 1,860 marine scientists as its members, said earlier this week.

"Depending on the species, fish have been known to accumulate as much as 100 times the amount of pollutants in the environment," said Jota Kanda, a professor at Tokyo University of Marine Science and Technology specializing in marine environment.

Radiation threats to Japan's food chain are multiplying as cesium emissions from the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant spread. Aeon Co., Japan's biggest supermarket chain, said Monday 4,108 kg of beef suspected of being contaminated by radiation was inadvertently put on sale at 174 stores across the country.

The government on July 19 banned cattle shipments from Fukushima Prefecture, though not before some had been slaughtered and shipped. A ban on shiitake was extended to another area of Fukushima on July 23 because of high cesium levels, the health ministry said.

Testing of seafood off the coast of Fukushima uncovered 68 cases of fish and marine life with radiation readings exceeding the government's safety limit, according to a report by the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare.

The prefecture tested 505 seafood items to discover excessive radiation levels in 15 cases of "ayu" sweetfish, which is generally a freshwater fish, seven cases of salmon, seven cases of greenling and six cases of sand lance, according the report. Ibaraki reported five cases of excessive radiation levels after testing 265 samples.

Seafood tests by 15 other prefectures found no other cases of contamination, according to the report. Miyagi tested 44 samples, while Iwate tested two samples.

"The scope of testing needs to increase, especially in the neighboring prefectures of Miyagi and Iwate," Kanda said. "In Chernobyl's case, it took about six months to a year for cesium concentrations in fish to peak."

That said, the concentrated release of radioactive material into Fukushima's coastal waters is "unprecedented," Kanda said.

Radiation in food is measured in becquerel, a gauge of the strength of radioactivity in materials such as iodine-131 and cesium-137. A becquerel represents one radioactive decay per second, which involves the release of atomic energy that can damage human cells and DNA, with prolonged exposure causing leukemia and other forms of cancer, according to the World Nuclear Association.

Levels of cesium-134 in seawater near the Fukushima plant's reactor 3 rose to levels 30 times the allowed safety standards last week, according to tests performed by Tokyo Electric Power Co., NHK reported.

"The concern is that the contaminants will travel up the food chain reaching greater concentration in higher animals," Eiji Tanaka, a professor at Tokyo University of Marine Science and Technology specializing in marine bioresources, said in an email Tuesday. "The pollutants may spread to bluefin tuna and minke whales."

Tests of seawater farther off Fukushima, Miyagi and Ibaraki prefectures showed no traces of radioactive elements, according to a July 22 report by the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

The minimum detection limit is defined as 4 becquerels per liter for iodine-131, 6 bq/l for cesium-134 and 9 bq/l for cesium-137, the report said.

"Which means that at 5 becquerels per liter, the ministry will proclaim the water safe, but concentration in fish may exceed the 500 becquerel limit" per kilogram set by the government, Kanda said.
by gilesdesign (guest) rate this post as useful

Short answer 2011/7/28 20:36
OP asked re safety of foods in Tokyo.
International travel advisories indicate it is safe to travel to all areas of Japan other than the immediate areas around the Fukushima plant, for radiation issues, and the coastal areas still needing recovery assistance.
These advisories are made as a result of all aspects being taken into consideration, with advice from all agencies, Japanese and International.
If you are going to Japan, enjoy, eat, and absorb all that this wonderful country has to offer.
by fmj rate this post as useful

Seafood testing links 2011/9/7 17:53
I run Ezo Seafoods, an oyster bar in Niseko Hokkaido. I've been monitoring seafood tests over the past six months. The number of fish testing above the provisional limits has been increasing, but so far the problem seems to be limited to the Fukushima area. The issue of migrational fish contamination remains. However no migrational fish have been identified for contamination so far, after hundreds of tests. (that's not to say they won't in future). Anyway, here's a link to my commentary, an article from Greenpeace, and also direct links to the testing results in English. Hope this helps.
http://www.ezoseafoods.com/en/content/japanese-seafood-how-safe-august...
by ezosan rate this post as useful

. 2011/9/8 00:25
As ezosan suggested, the level of radiation in seafood from Hokkaido and most other places apart from Fukushima and Ibaraki area has never gotton higher than standards. Here is are more detailed results from Hokkaido's official website.
http://www.pref.hokkaido.lg.jp/sr/ske/ek/sakanamnt.htm
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

back to the topic 2011/9/8 03:24
All governements and big businesses around the world control our lives to a great extent. On the other hand, when it comes to the safety of food, the air, water etc. in Tokyo---the original topic of this post---surely the government cares?

After all neither the cabinet members nor the bureaucrats want to become radioactive zombies, do they? They even have a family and friends to worry about....
by Red frog (guest) rate this post as useful

Just laying out facts 2011/9/8 11:50
To be fair, apart from the evacuation zone, the food and atmosphere is safe enough to keep you healthy for at least several years. The debatable part that everyone is worried about is after that. After many years have gone by people might or might not get sick, and by then no one will be able to detect the real reason behind it. Current government officials will be retired or even have died of age by then. The good news is that we will have the option of not blaming ourselves for having eaten the wrong things or having lived in the wrong place.

Anyway, I chose to renew my insurance and make sure I get my occasional check-ups rather than to worry about my day to day diet.
by Uco (guest) rate this post as useful

Samsonite 2011/9/10 08:06
You had better bring all your food with you from Greece.
I spent about 10 days in Tokyo in May and my hair turned bright GREEN, then fell out !

Just kidding. Just 2 months after the disaster everything was nearly back to normal. Enjoy.
by Dick H rate this post as useful

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