Travelling between Osaka & Kyoto

Hi, I plan to stay 2 days in Osaka from 21-23/Nov & another 2 days in Kyoto from 23-25/Nov but I'm having difficulty to get a hotel in Kyoto, esp for 2A2C, it's either fully booked, very far from central or very expensive! So my alternate plan is to stay in Osaka throughout the 4 days & make a to&fro trip to Kyoto for 2 days, does this make sense actually? And is there any pass that I can use on train to save the cost?

Thanks a lot!

Use Osaka for a base and just make daily trips to Kyoto.

Yes, it makes sense, it's only 30 minutes by frequent express trains on Tokaido/Sanyo main line. Price is 560 jpy one way so purchasing Kansai Thru Pass (2 days for 4k jpy, 3 days for 5.2k) will probably not help unless you plan to travel more (but could be helpful if you use it in Osaka as well - see the following link to check coverage and whether you could use it: http://www.surutto.com/tickets/kansai_thru_english.html)

This completely makes sense babe!! I'm just back from Osaka and I went to Kyoto everyday just for the temples and to see the Geisha tea rooms. You get the JR line train which takes around 30 mins (but make sure you get the fast one!!)

It is around 500yen and well worth it. Don't bother getting a hotel in Kyoto- there is so much to see in Osaka- and you can just head to Kyoto for the day trip. ALSO make sure you check out the teacup petshop in Osaka!!

I'm uploading a video this evening about my stay in Osaka and travels to Kyoto-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=326PIthEg_Y

Hope this helps!!

[Transportation passes]

A Kansai Thru Pass is a non-JR transportation pass, which cannot be used on the JR section Osaka -- Kyoto on Tokaido Line.
This JR section is usually called "JR Kyoto Line" by JR-West in its announcements and signs.

Whether a transportation pass pays off or not depends on places to visit, but now I do not think of any intercity transportation pass which may save much cost in this journey.

Will you fly into and fly out from Kansai Airport [KIX]?
Which places will you visit in Osaka and in Kyoto?
How old will the two kids be?

You can travel between Osaka Station (in Umeda [Kita] area) or Shin-Osaka Station and Kyoto Station at 560 yen per adult per way using JR Kyoto Line.
You can travel between Umeda Station (of Hankyu) / Shin-Osaka Station (of subway) and Karasuma Station (of Hankyu, in Kyoto City) at 400 yen / 580 yen per adult per way using non-JR lines.

A one-day Enjoy Eco Card, which can be used on Osaka Municipal Subway, New Tram and Bus lines, is available at 800 yen per adult for a weekday or at 600 yen per adult for a Saturday, a Sunday or a holiday. (The child edition is available at 300 yen regardless of dates.)
A Kyoto City Bus - Kyoto Bus One-day Pass, which can be used for bus accesses to and from many major tourist spots in Kyoto City, is available at 500 yen per adult. (The child edition is available at 250 yen.)

[Possible crowdedness and the order of places]

The weekend from Saturday, 22 November 2014 will be practically expanded to be 3 days, because Sunday, 23 November will be a national holiday and 24 November will be a substitute holiday.
That may have caused your difficulty in finding good accommodation in Kyoto City from 23 to 25 November 2014.

Major tourist spots may be crowded with visitors during this expanded weekend, especially some in Kyoto City if they are still in the autumn foliage season.
If you come in the morning of Friday, 21 November, it may be better to travel in Kyoto City earlier, visiting some most popular spots by around the noon of Saturday, 22 November.

[Accommodation and transportation]

In terms of convenience of transportation,
Umeda [Kita] area and Shin-Osaka area in Osaka City
and Kyoto Station area and Shijo-Karasuma area in Kyoto City
sound nice for your accommodation.

Osaka Station in Umeda area, Shin-Osaka Station (of JR-West) and Kyoto Station (of JR-West) are on JR Kyoto Line and connected by JR direct trains.
A one-way JR ride in a Special Rapid train between Osaka or Shin-Osaka and Kyoto lasts for about 25 to 30 minutes. The one-way fare is 560 yen per adult.

A large bus terminal is on the Karasuma side [north side] of JR Kyoto Station near Central Gate.

Hankyu trains connect Umeda Station in Osaka City and Karasuma Station in Shijo-Karasuma area of Kyoto City.
A one-way Hankyu ride in a Ltd. Express train lasts for about 40 minutes. The one-way fare is 400 yen per adult.

Shijo-Karasuma area in Kyoto City is around Shijo-Karasuma crossroad of east-west Shijo-dori and north-south Karasuma-dori, which is about 2 kilometers roughly to the north of Central Gate of JR Kyoto Station.
In this area, Hankyu has Karasuma Station, Kyoto City Subway has Shijo Station and a bus terminal is on the basement of subway Shijo Station.

Osaka Municipal Subway has Umeda and Shin-Osaka Stations, which are connected by direct trains on Midosuji Line in about 5 minutes. The one-way fare is 240 yen per adult.

In Umeda area, JR-West has Osaka Station, Hankyu and Hanshin have Umeda Stations and Osaka Municipal subway has three stations including Umeda Station.
Depending on places to visit in Osaka City, Umeda area is better than Shin-Osaka area to start from and/or return to.
(e.g. You can travel by Hankyu from Umeda Station to Mino-o Station, which is a gateway to Mino Park in Minoh City known for a scenic fall. It is a long way of about 3 kilometers to walk from the station to the fall, though.)

[Travelling from KIX to Osaka City or Kyoto City]

If you travel from KIX to Osaka City, please note
that Rapid trains for Osaka do not run to Shin-Osaka Station
while Airport Ltd. Express "Haruka" trains for Shin-Osaka and Kyoto do not make a stop at Osaka Station.
When you take a JR "Haruka" train first but head to Umeda area, you can change trains in Tennoji Station(s) in Osaka City
either to a JR train for Osaka on Osaka Loop Line inside JR gates
or to a subway train for Umeda on Midosuji Line via a JR exit gate and a subway entrance gate.

A foreign traveler with Temporary Visitor status of residence can choose a one-day or a roundtrip JR-West ICOCA & Haruka package.
(If one or the both of the kids have not reached 12 by the boarding date, a possible demerit will be that a child-rate edition is not available concerning this ICOCA & Haruka package. In that case you may prefer taking a Rapid train with regular tickets to save the cost.)
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_icoca_haruka.html
A ticket in this package can pay off if you take a JR "Haruka" train between Kansai-airport Station and Tennoji or Shin-Osaka or Kyoto Station, partly or fully on the way between KIX and Osaka City or Kyoto City. Please note that this ticket is a one-way one-day ticket, not a rail pass.

Thank you so much for the detailed advise!

I'll be flying into kansai but flying out from haneda, and I plan to visit Osaka, Kyoto, nara, hakone then final stop at Tokyo. Not sure if there is any travel pass that suit my itinerary the best, looks like I got to do a lot of homework then.

I've finally confirmed my hotel and will be staying throughout in Osaka for 4 days, I will be most likely make to and fro trip to Kyoto for 2 days, as as well as Nara for half a day trip. My hotel is in Umeda area and there is shuttle bus to JR Osaka station, which I think very convenient to travel around.

I have not really found out where are the places to go in Kansai, but mainly USJ and shopping place like shinsaibashi in Osaka, for Nara I thought of bringing the kids to central park to see deer (my kids love animal), and as for Kyoto it will be most likely temples and also Autumn foliage!

My kids aged 9 & 5 so I assume the younger one can travel free on any trains?

JLover: you can check "JR Pass" which is for 7, 14 or 21 consecutive days. It would cover trains between Osaka and Kyoto, Nara and Tokyo. I suggest you use maps.google.com to find out what are the costs you'll be facing - you just enter station names and you will get possible connections as well as their prices. Typically, 7 days JR pass will already make sense if you're doing Tokyo/Kyoto round trip. Whether it will make sense for you depends on how many trips you plan to make on JR lines besides the journey to Tokyo. Just remember that JR Pass is not valid on Nozomi trains and google will primarily offer those when you will search for Shinosaka-Tokyo connection. But the prices for Nozomi and other shinkansen trains (Hikari or Kodama on Tokkaido/Sanyo line) are pretty much the same, just it takes longer (Hikari does more stops than Nozomi while Kodama is basically "local" shinkansen which stops everywhere).

If using JR pass would make sense, then you can plan around it a little bit by adjusting your plans and activating your pass only when you will make the most out of it (so if you start by staying 2 days in Osaka, you can activate it as of the day 3 so you can use it for travel to/from Kyoto).

Dear jus: JLover is saying "I'll be flying into kansai but flying out from haneda,..." in the previous message. It does not seem to be an itinerary for which a Japan Rail Pass is a good choice. Prices for Nozomi and other Shinkansen trains differ when the traveller choose a reserved seat, even partly on the way. Tokaido / Sanyo Line is a non-Shinkansen line.

jus: Kodama is basically "local" shinkansen which stops everywhere.

I like this expression. Yes, Shinkansen "Kodama" trains make stops at all the stations on the way.

[Places to see animals]

I thought of bringing the kids to central park to see deer (my kids love animal)

How about visiting Tennoji Zoo in Osaka City or Ueno Zoological Gardens in Tokyo?
(Pay attention to closed days!)
http://www.jazga.or.jp/tennoji/image/calendar_h26.jpg
http://www.tokyo-zoo.net/english/ueno/index.html

[Passes and tickets]

I'll be flying into Kannai but flying out from Haneda, and I plan to visit Osaka, Kyoto, Nara, Hakone then final stop at Tokyo.

Then a Japan Rail Pass will not pay off. Probably regular tickets will be enough for your long-distance JR rides from Osaka Station to a JR station in Tokyo.

Please note that Shin-Osaka is the only Shinkansen station in Osaka City.
You can take a JR train from Osaka to Shin-Osaka, pass through Shinkansen Transfer Gate and take a JR Shinkansen train.
http://english.jr-central.co.jp/info/station/_img/shin_osaka_L.jpg

Hakone is not served by JR. You can make a side trip to Hakone from Odawara on your way to Tokyo. A Hakone Freepass may be a good choice, depending on places to visit. You can purchase this pass at a ticket vending machine of Odakyu in Odawara Station.
- japan-guide.com: Hakone Free Pass
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_008.html
- Odakyu Electric Railway: How to purchase tickets
http://www.odakyu.jp/english/traffic/howto/ticket/
- JR-East: Odawara Station
http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/stations/e382.html
: You can see also Odakyu gate and tracks in the map.
From Odawara Station you can take either a train on Tokaido Shinkansen (operated by JR-Central) or a (JR-East) train on Tokaido Line, to Shinagawa Station or Tokyo Station.
Alternatively you can use Odakyu Odawara Line to Shinjuku Station.

If you leave Osaka and reach Tokyo within 4 calendar days, you can use a JR basic-fare ticket which can be valid from Osaka Station to your JR station in Tokyo for 4 calendar days, making a stopover in Odawara Station on the way.

Your transportation options include a highway bus from Osaka City to Tokyo.
Personally I would not make two little kids take a highway bus to save the cost when we can choose a Shinkansen ride, which is faster and more stable.

- japan-guide.com: How to travel between Osaka and Tokyo
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4006.html
: The railroad cost will be a little higher if you choose Shinkansen to travel from Odawara after your Hakone trip.

[Railroad fees and kids]

I assume the younger one can travel free on any trains?

When the 5-year-old kid is accompanied by an adult and he/she does not use a space which requires reservation, he/she can travel by rail in Japan free of fees.
: For example, if you (an adult) and he/she are together inside a Non-Reserved car of a JR Shinkansen train for the whole ride, no railroad fee is required for his/her ride; however, if he/she has a reserved seat, child-rate basic fare and Shinkansen charge are required.
: The same can be said about a ride in a JR Ltd. Express train (such as "Haruka").
: Most of JR Rapid trains do not have a space to be reserved (except some higher-class cars). Basically he/she can take JR Rapid and Local trains free of fees.

A child-rate railroad fees apply to a 9-year-old kid. If a child rate does not exist, an adult rate fee may apply, but regarding regular tickets I suppose you will not encounter such a case in this journey.
A child rate concerning regular railroad fees is roughly 50 percent of an adult rate.

My hotel is in Umeda area and there is shuttle bus to JR Osaka station

If I were in your shoes, I would take the earliest JR train I can catch in Kansai-airport Station. If the train is a Kyobashi-bound Rapid train, it should run directly to Osaka Station. If the train is a Kyoto-bound Ltd. Express "Haruka" train, I would change trains in Tennoji Station.

I suppose the 9-year-old kid can choose the above-mentioned ICOCA & Haruka package like an adult as long as he/she meets the criteria of eligibility.
An ICOCA Card in the package is designed for adult-rate basic fares. He/she can return it to JR-West for a refund in Osaka Station, paying a handling fee of 220 yen.
(A child-rate ICOCA Card is available. Personal data of the holder (such as the date of birth) need to be registered when a Child ICOCA Card is issued.)

If the 9-year-old kid takes a direct Rapid train to Osaka Station, a regular ticket sounds better for him/her.
(1190 yen on the regular ticket is lower than 1030 yen on the ticket in the package + 220 yen as a handling fee for a refund of the adult-rate ICOCA Card.)
If he/she cannot choose the package and he/she takes a JR "Haruka" train inside a Non-Reserved car until Tennoji, the regular fees in total will be 1840yen.