About PR for spouse visa holders

I have been more than 10 years in Japan with engineer and spouse visa history.
In order to get PR what are the merit points?
What type of duties the spouse of Japanese national should do?
What is the definition of foreigner who married to Japane national?
Married with Japanese and not having enough income(Or sitting idle) can give you PR?

I saw many examples around me.

1)I have one friend who is married to Japanese in other country but now living in Japan
and having kid. He got PR even though he was unemployed.

2)I know some person who was on spouse visa and who cannot write his name in alphabet has got PR.

3)I saw some people who overstayed more than 5 years and deported and then married to Japanese national,
those people also got PR after 3 years of marriage.

4)Now new immigration rule give all the types of visa based on what contribution you do for Japan.
It also says highly educated and high tax paid foreigners have more merit to get PR.

5)My PR application was rejected just because my address was different even though I have 7 years
engineers visa history and 3 years spouse visa history. We mentioned reason for different address.

6)Some Canadian guy who worked as engineer in Japan did not get PR just because he dont have guarantor.

I dont know what points immigration counts for PR? There is no any value for good character. Whether they have some set of rules or it just depend upon the mood of
immigration officer who is investigate your case?

Please share your comment and knowledge about this case.

In order to get PR what are the merit points?

It's not a point system per se. You basically have to show long term commitment toward living in Japan, without having any significant red flags. BTW, you're case sounds like it had a significant red flag, but I'll get to that in a bit.

What type of duties the spouse of Japanese national should do?

The application requires that you make a contribution to Japanese society, but what qualifies is nebulous. It doesn't mean that you have to be a public figure working toward the betterment of society, instead regular family roles would qualify.

What is the definition of foreigner who married to Japanese national?

Not really sure how there is confusion here. Do you have an example of a questionable situation?

Married with Japanese and not having enough income(Or sitting idle) can give you PR?

Employment or income are not required for PR if your household as a whole is able to financially sustain itself.

I saw many examples around me.

It's hard to comment on specific cases without good details, but here's some quick comments:

1)I have one friend who is married to Japanese in other country but now living in Japan and having kid. He got PR even though he was unemployed.

Not sure the exact situation, but unemployment doesn't preclude PR.

2)I know some person who was on spouse visa and who cannot write his name in alphabet has got PR.

Japanese proficiency is not required for PR.

3)I saw some people who overstayed more than 5 years and deported and then married to Japanese national, those people also got PR after 3 years of marriage.

Deportation doesn't preclude PR especially if you fulfilled the time that you were banned from entering the country.

4)Now new immigration rule give all the types of visa based on what contribution you do for Japan. It also says highly educated and high tax paid foreigners have more merit to get PR.

Sounds like you're talking about the highly skilled professional visa. That's a special fasttrack visa for high level professionals. As an engineer it sounds like you may qualify for this in the future, which may help fasttrack your PR.

5)My PR application was rejected just because my address was different even though I have 7 years engineers visa history and 3 years spouse visa history. We mentioned reason for different address.

You mean you and your spouse maintain separate addresses? That's a huge red flag to immigration and a sign of a sham marriage. Is it not possible to have both you and your wife registered at the same address? That would surely help the process.

6)Some Canadian guy who worked as engineer in Japan did not get PR just because he dont have guarantor.

Sounds like there's more to this than you given, and it's hard to comment without more info.

There is no any value for good character. Whether they have some set of rules or it just depend upon the mood of immigration officer who is investigate your case?

Good character is expected, while bad character will get your application flagged. The mood of the immigration officer probably has little effect overall since it is typically a long review process.

to the OP,

your 7 years engineer visa and 3 years spouse visa are basically 2 different thing.

For engineer visa aka work visa, minimum is 10 years for PR application.

For spouse visa minimum is 3 years.

Immigration DO NOT total up your 10 years(7+3) unfortunately, and that how the system work here. most of the time Logic do not work here in Japan.

As mentioned above having separate address (in case of spouse Visa) will raise red flag in your PR application.

In term of working visa to PR, contribution to Japan/incomes do taken into consideration into PR application.

As for spouse visa to PR, your long term commitment to your family in Japan, and also having children will improve your changes for PR.

FYI, I applied for my PR on my 4th year of spouse visa (1st time 1 year, 2nd time 3 years), when I renewed my spouse visa for 3rd time, immigration lady at the counter asked me to apply for PR. Also having kid does improved your chances greatly.
Also at that time I'm doing part time jobs, earning less than 100K per month, and my wife as guarantor.

Immigration DO NOT total up your 10 years(7+3) unfortunately, and that how the system work here. most of the time Logic do not work here in Japan.

No, that is not correct. Immigration DOES add up your stays on different visas IF they are a consecutive stay. If your stay has lapsed in between then you start the clock over again.

As mentioned above having separate address (in case of spouse Visa) will raise red flag in your PR application.

It can also cause problems with renewing spouse visas.

Thanks for the kind comment and information.
Yes I agree. We did not know about it. But we are going to make same address soon.

Employment or income are not required for PR if your household as a whole is able to financially sustain itself.
I saw on some lawyer site that more than 500man/year increases the merit point.
I also heard one example. One person having PR is idle, immigration made his visa to one year.

Not sure the exact situation, but unemployment doesn't preclude PR.
As per new rule it matters.
As per my information, they want the person to pay tax and work. Idle person is not good for society. Now the old people will increase in Japan, so they welcome the foreigner who is having good income and pay high tax.

2)I know some person who was on spouse visa and who cannot write his name in alphabet has got PR.
Japanese proficiency is not required for PR.
I dont mean Japanese proficiency. I mean the english alpabhabet.The person cannot write the name in english alphabet.
Now the person having N1 level proficiency get the merit for visa as per MOJ.

3)I saw some people who overstayed more than 5 years and deported and then married to Japanese national, those people also got PR after 3 years of marriage.
Deportation doesn't preclude PR especially if you fulfilled the time that you were banned from entering the country.
Ohh really! may be overstay is not serious act as per their rule.
Even I saw the person who is a PR holder and stayed in jail and still no effect on PR.

Sounds like you're talking about the highly skilled professional visa. That's a special fasttrack visa for high level professionals.
As an engineer it sounds like you may qualify for this in the future, which may help fasttrack your PR.
You are correct. And also other skilled persons too.

Is it not possible to have both you and your wife registered at the same address? That would surely help the process.
Now we are going to make same address. I will take my wife to immigration. She is my guarantor.

6)Some Canadian guy who worked as engineer in Japan did not get PR just because he dont have guarantor.
Sounds like there's more to this than you given, and it's hard to comment without more info.
He is working for 10 years.

Good character is expected, while bad character will get your application flagged.
Overstay is good character? Its very bad act in my country and contributes to bad character. Anyway, the rules differs from country to country. I cannot comment on it.

The mood of the immigration officer probably has little effect overall since it is typically a long review process.
I guess they dont have set of rules. Many things depends on his mood and case by case.

As for spouse visa to PR, your long term commitment to your family in Japan, and also having children will improve your changes for PR.
Yes we have 4 years old kid too. I am paying high tax, working continuously as engineer even though I changed my status to spouse.

It can also cause problems with renewing spouse visas
One immigration laywer told me that you have son and you are working as engineer,
so you will get 1 years visa even if the address is different.

When I visited immigration, the immigration lady told me that if you change your status to engineer again, you have high chance of getting long visa because you have 3 years strong history in the past.
I posses 1 year visa only this time.

- Once again, you are mixing up the "work visa to PR" process, the "spouse of Japanese to PR" process, and the "highly skilled professional" visa process. Income may matter for the "work visa to PR" process, but not much for "spouse of Japanese to PR" process.

I also heard one example. One person having PR is idle, immigration made his visa to one year.
- This is not possible, because once you HAVE PR, Immigration cannot make it to one year. Maybe it was a "spouse of permanent resident," meaning the husband of the one who has PR, who got one year.

Ohh really! may be overstay is not serious act as per their rule.

- Overstaying is a serious offense. However, if that person got deported, and fully observed the ban to enter Japan, then they paid the penalty, so they can again enter Japan, and IF they happen to get married to a Japanese national, they will not deny PR after a certain number of years.

Even I saw the person who is a PR holder and stayed in jail and still no effect on PR.
- Once again, if someone already HAS a PR status, then he is almost like a Japanese national except that he cannot vote. So they will not kick him out.

- If you and your wife change to living at the same address, that will help things a great deal. Spouse visa is given to you so that you can stay in Japan to live with your wife, and because that is the purpose, they care "careful" about couples who live separately.

Best wishes.

Hi AK,

Thanks for the useful information and answer. It will be strong point if the address becomes same.

-I also heard one example. One person having PR is idle, immigration made his visa to one year.
- This is not possible, because once you HAVE PR, Immigration cannot make it to one year. Maybe it was a "spouse of permanent resident," meaning the husband of the one who has PR, who got one year.
---I heard this from my friend. I dont know the truth. But the PR holder must work and pay the tax and health insurance too.
Now a days it is compulsory to show the health insurance at the time of visa update.
I asked immigration why health insurance is not compulsory for the PR holders. They told me that they will check. Some PR holders dont pay health insurance. So why compulsory for normal visa holder? Please kindly give me information about it too. Its helpful. Sorry the topic is going out of track.

Some PR holders dont pay health insurance. So why compulsory for normal visa holder?

I am sorry to say this, but it IS compulsory for those living in Japan, including locals and non-Japanese residents, both permanent residents and those on work visas (even though those on work visas sign up with the employer's health benefit scheme).

Even some locals (Japanese nationals) don't or can't pay health insurance. Some because their income does not allow it, others for other reasons.

Nowadays the government chase after those who do not pay, both Japanese and non-Japanese.

2 problems:
Not living at the same address (not real marriage/not enough income to support 2 households)
Only on a 1 year spouse status (need to be on at least a 3 year to apply with less than 10 years' continuous residence as spouse of a Japanese/PR)

The other anecdotes you are moaning about are not relevant to your case.

---I heard this from my friend. I dont know the truth. But the PR holder must work and pay the tax and health insurance too.

Your friend is incorrect. PR holders are not obligated to work, and they cannot lose their status once they get it.

They told me that they will check. Some PR holders dont pay health insurance. So why compulsory for normal visa holder?

It is compulsory for everyone. There are ways to let it lapse though, and this more likely to apply to PR holders who don't have yearly checks. To be clear, this is breaking the rules and will likely catch up to you at some point.

Hi
Everybody else above are correct
The only mistake for you is comparing one case with the other.immigration and nationality act laws in japan or all other countires are processed as case by case.
Yes ,having a kid(s) is one of the strong supporting document in PR or citizenship applications.

Dear all,

Thanks for your sharing your experienc and knowledge with me.

-2 problems:
-Not living at the same address (not real marriage/not enough income to support 2 households)
-Only on a 1 year spouse status (need to be on at least a 3 year to apply with less than 10 years' continuous residence as spouse of a Japanese/PR)
-The other anecdotes you are moaning about are not relevant to your case.
I am cotinuously paying tax and working continuously with only 8 months unemployed gap in 11 years stay. I have enough income to support my family. My wife is also working continuously for more than 15 years. Its not the case I am married for the visa. I have 7 years engineers visa history. I just changed to spouse visa to promote my country`s culture so that my activities become free. Engineer visa has restrictions for activities. I will mention that also next time in additional documents at the time of visa update. We both have good income and son too.
Thanks for the comment.

There are rules immigration officials follow; specially considered cases are rare. Yes I'm sure you're a wonderful contributor to Japan with strong connections and yes, lots of other people with things you perceive as problems did get PR. But my point was simply that you aren't fitting into the right boxes for a normal PR application.

It is unusual for immigration to grant PR to someone not on the maximum stay length for their current status - the rationale being that if immigration only thought you trustable for 1 year recently, they aren't going to go against their colleagues and grant you PR suddenly. Probably, you only get 1 year status as you don't live together. If you've been getting a string of only 1 year spouse statuses over your few last applications, there is clearly something about your situation that worries immigration.

If you get a 3 year spouse status next time, you could apply for PR. If you get a 1 year spouse status next time, then probably you won't get PR granted again.

No, that is not correct. Immigration DOES add up your stays on different visas IF they are a consecutive stay. If your stay has lapsed in between then you start the clock over again.
Again not entirely true as Immi do reset the periods of stays if you change/jump from one type of visa to another.

Also agreed with Lady Kodaira last 2 paragraph.

Having spouse visa (of Japanese) is the next best thing to PR as there is no restriction to your activities/work. Keep the spouse visa, get your address as one and try to get 3 years visa when renew, then PR will be easy.

Again not entirely true as Immi do reset the periods of stays if you change/jump from one type of visa to another.

Again, that is not correct. The periods of stay don't reset when changing status. To be clear, the requirement is that you stay in Japan for 10 years consecutively. Specific residency statuses do not affect how that period is calculated, but certain statuses can reduce the minim time required to qualify for PR.

Btw, I found the specific requirements as listed on the immigration office page:

http://www.moj.go.jp/content/000099622.pdf

Lady Kodaira is correct. In principle you will need to have the max spouse visa duration before you will even be considered for PR (note that max may only mean 3 years rather than the recently added 5 year visa).

yllwsmrf is spot on as usual.

Specific residency statuses do not affect how that period is calculated
Some exceptions such as the highly-skilled visa, that starts the clock at zero continuous residence for application for accelerated PR (who knows how this will change soon though?). Or refugee status or temporary visitor status of course.

(note that max may only mean 3 years rather than the recently added 5 year visa).
Yes. Should have said, that since the changes 3 years is still regarded as the maximum for a long stay visa in regards to PR, even though 5 year residency could be granted for some categories. Basically not a 1 year or shorter status.

That said there are people that claim to have got PR when apply off a 1 year and people with less than 10 years stay with a Japanese spouse that applied off a work visa. So exceptions apparently do happen. If you're getting repeated 1 year stays, you'll need to address why first before they will think about giving PR.

Hi Lady kodaira-san,
Thanks again for your kind explanation. AK-san also give nice information everytime.

Thanks for the kind comment. I am not only contributing to the technology of Japan but also teaching the Indian yoga to make this society relax and happy. I came here as IT enginner but when I look the stress society around, I started teaching yoga too. So I change my status from engineer to spouse so that I can teach yoga and Indian food too. When I finished my 3years enginner visa, I applied spouse visa at the time of update. Of course I did not mention this during visa update. I can read, write Japanese and possess N2 level proficiency certification too.

-But my point was simply that you aren't fitting into the right boxes for a normal PR application.
Yes, we are mistken, we did not register the same address. That is not fitting into the box. Next time,we give same address. My visa history is 7 years engineer visa-3 year spouse visa-1 year spouse visa. The immigration lady told they will see status next year and decide because this time your address is different.

-It is unusual for immigration to grant PR to someone not on the maximum stay length for their current status
You must be right. They dont care your past status. They see current status only. If I was on enginner visa, then I would have got PR by this time. This spouse visa created problem.

They made my spouse visa from 3 years to 1 year. My wife mentioned proper reason for separate address（単身赴任）. they did not consider that.

-If you get a 3 year spouse status next time, you could apply for PR. If you get a 1 year spouse status next time, then probably you won't get PR granted again.
Now I have to update my visa during next January. I tell them my all story and ask which visa I should apply? If they plan to give again 1 year visa then I go for engineer visa. I just want to prove that I am not married here for visa. I just changed status to spouse for doing the contribution to your sociey. They have to give me 3 years visa as per rule if I change status. Because I have 3 year visa earler in the past as per them. The immigration lawyer and staff also told me that way is also fine.
What my feeling is cook people also get PR and 3 years visa. My qualification is near to Doctorate, they made more more worst than cook. What I did bad?

My visa history is 7 years engineer visa-3 year spouse visa-1 year spouse visa.

your visa history already shows red flag, especially your 3 years spouse visa reduce to 1 year when you renewed it.


What my feeling is cook people also get PR and 3 years visa. My qualification is near to Doctorate, they made more more worst than cook. What I did bad?

Again as people mentioned again n again, and you also admit it, get your address as one!

Also it no point explaining it to the immigration counter personnel as they do not have a say in approving your PR. All they do is listen to your grumble/points and advise you as it is. The final decision maker are the HQ people who will only see/make reference to Documents that you have submitted for your PR application. So anything even the tiniest discrepancy (different address) will jeopardise your application.

It is no criticism of you or your skills.
Each status has different requirements and things that affect it. The clues are in the names:

For a work status then your qualifications, experience, employment, wages, tax record etc. This is all that is important. It is a work status like engineer, they want people in Japan providing something Japan needs in terms of work.

These things are largely unimportant for a spouse residency status. What's important is the marriage to a Japanese citizen (and the Japanese guarantor probably the spouse or family member, so whatever you do, someone is responsible for supporting you). Work doesn't matter if you lose your Japanese spouse (divorce or death), then you will also eventually lose your spouse status. So all immigration care about really is "is it a real marriage". Moving apart or not living together is a major indication of a fake marriage or a separation leading to a divorce. (it doesn't matter your reason, but this is how immigration could see it). So they don't give you a long status, just a year, to wait and see if what happens. If you had a 3 year spouse previously and move back in together probably you'll get 3 years again. (this is all guesswork, there could be other things we're not being told and this certainly isn't legal advice).

Application for PR should really be seen as applying to make your current status permanent rather than a status in its own right. If they don't trust you for the maximum on a shorter status they are not going to make it permanent.