Itinerary for first stay in Japan

Hi everyone,

Want to say this is a great site and have found it really useful for planning my trip.

I've left things a bit last minute and so far only have a flight booked to Japan next week - 15th October to 12th Nov.

My friend will be joining me for 16th October to 2nd Nov.

Flying into and out of Narita.

I've looked at a lot of the suggested routes and thought it'd be good to do Tokyo to natural areas to Kyoto, to have a break from the major cities.

The site suggested going to Takayama via Nagoya but that's a long journey in one day, and there are a number of spots in the Chubu area that looked good.

So my thought is to spend several days in Tokyo, go through the Alps and get to Kyoto that way, where then spend majority of time until end of Oct.
Currently looks like:
Tokyo to Matsumoto (overnight)
Matsumoto to Kamikochi (overnight at ryokan/onsen)
Kamikochi to Takayama to Shirkawa-go (Ogimachi) (overnight at farmhouse)
Shirkawa-go to Kanazawa - day only
Kanazawa to Kyoto

Or in more detail:
-------------------
Tokyo to Matsumoto
Limited Express - 2.5 hours - Shinjuku to Matsumoto
15 Min walk to castle, or free cycle or cheap sneaker bus

Chubu - Nagano - Matsumoto
Matsumoto Castle - http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6051.html

Overnight near there?

Matsumoto to Kamikochi
Matsumoto Electric Railway from Matsumoto Station to Shin-Shimashima Station (30 minutes), followed by a bus ride to Kamikochi (60 minutes). 
There are also a small number of direct buses from Matsumoto Bus Terminal to Kamikochi.

Kamikochi - http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6040.html
Chubu - Nagano - Matsumoto

Hot Spring after hiking
Okuhida Hot Springs? http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5942.html
Suimeikan Karukaya - ryokan with outdoor onsen

Norukura Kogen - http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6044.html

Nearby Onsen - Shirahone Onsen - http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6042.html

Kamikochi to Takayama to Shirakawa-go
Two buses per hour from Kamikochi to Hirayu Onsen (25 minutes, 1160 yen one way, 2050 yen round trip).
Take a Nohi bus from Hirayu Onsen to Takayama (60 minutes, 1570 yen, one bus per hour)
Nohi Bus - Takayama to Shirakawa-go takes 50 minutes and costs 2470 yen

Spend some time in Takayama before hoping on bus to Shirawaka go?

Ogimachi Village - http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5951.html
Chubu - Shirakawa-go and Gokayama

Shirakawa-go to Kanazawa
Nohi Bus operates six bus buses per day between Kanazawa and Shirakawa-go. The one way trip takes 75 minutes and costs 1850 yen

Kanazawa - http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2167.html
Kenrokuen garden

Look around in day, head to Kyoto in evening

Kanazawa to Kyoto
JR Thunderbird limited express - takes two hours, two departures per hour
-----------------

Any thoughts?

Is taking the bus through the mountains too much effort?

Are these good sites etc?

Basically keen on Kamikochi - looks very nice, or something similar, and relaxing in an onsen/staying in a ryokan after hiking around.

I'm less of a city person, and my friend who likes the cities more also likes the idea of kamikochi/onsen

The other places were suggested before, such as Shirakawa-go, and was trying to find interesting things to see on the way, to break up the journey, as otherwise a lot of travelling in one day.

Not sure what else there is to see around Matsumoto though, but thinking need to stay nearish Kamikochi to enjoy the day there.

After my friend leaves Kyoto to go back to Tokyo I thought I could join them for that trip and go to Fuji-Q on the way and then head back to Kyoto, or just stay at Kyoto and can head to Mount Koya to stay at a temple, and then head down to Kyushi for warmer weather and cycling to Shikoku across the bridges. But want to get the first 2 weeks with my friend organised first, and pretty open for the rest.

If you have any advise or thoughts they're very welcome!

Thanks!

Is taking the bus through the mountains too much effort?
No, it is actually best if you use bus to Takayama from Matsumoto via Shirahone Onsen etc
Are these good sites etc?
I planned for Kamikochi last trip but with record high temperature for the summer and large amount of tourists I saw in Matsumoto castle, I changed my plan and visited Nagano instead.

Takayama, beautiful landscape, I dub Takayama town the tourist resort town, most people stop by here for Shirakawa-go, though I suggest you stop by at Hida-no-Sato at Takayama to see if those actually attractive to you. They have similar attraction at Gero Onsen.

Matsumoto castle, a bit touristy but remember to return here at night.

Basically keen on Kamikochi - looks very nice, or something similar, and relaxing in an onsen/staying in a ryokan after hiking around.
I think so too, but decided not to go due to heat and the crowds. Probably a good idea to have a stay here, since the place is rather big to explore most of it, that way you probably will not be rushed on the day.

Not sure what else there is to see around Matsumoto though, but thinking need to stay nearish Kamikochi to enjoy the day there.
Well pretty much the castle, and the Nakamachi street, the castle is also one of the 12 remaining original castles in Japan aka not reconstructed. You could always take train to Nagano if Matsumoto do not appeal to you.

Try not to rush too much in Kanazawa, I still feel it is one of the towns that I enjoy most, be it the foods, sweets or just the town itself I guess. Did I mention good food?

If you have any advise or thoughts they're very welcome!

Thanks :)

So you're suggesting to e.g. walk to Hida-no-Sato from Takayama to check it out to see if we'd actually like to stay in a farm house in Shirakawa-go? And if not, just get back on the bus and go straight to Kanazawa and stay there instead?

Was originally going to mainly book Tokyo and key dates, and leave some flexibility, but then thought would book these places as well, as not sure about leaving it to the day etc.

Also the nohi bus isn't included in the JR Rail pass, so wondering if should use some trains somewhere instead. Actually adds a fair bit of travel cost taking all these buses.

Not sure which is nicer for travel and seeing things.

Seems you can take the train from Takayama to Toyama and then to Kanazawa.

Regarding Matsumoto castle, do you mean you go inside in the day, and then come back and see it lit up at night? So then stay nearby that night?

If there's samurai stuff, swords etc. inside I could happily spend some time there. And looks nice outside. But perhaps Kyoto's better for looking at samurai artefacts etc.

Yeah, I'd like to have a full day at Kamikochi, I guess if the journey there isn't too long it works to travel there in the morning, hike, then stay at onsen/ryokan in evening.

Shame it was too hot for you. Mid Oct seems the ideal time to go, although I'll be going more around 22nd as in Tokyo first.

I'll happily take my time going through this area, especially if the stays are same price or cheaper than kyoto etc.

Still leaves a week in Kyoto after if spend 4 days between in this area.

Thanks

That will be an awesome trip, good time of year as well. I really liked Kamikouchi - we stayed at the Onsen Hotel for 3 nights, it was great. They speak a fair amount of english there, I think that they work at the ski resorts over the ski season when Kamikouchi is closed.

Matsumoto is nice, but pretty quiet during the week. Maybe if I could suggest something, it would be to take the Asama (awesome) out to Karuizawa and stay the night there (Tsuruya Ryokan highly recommended). Karuizawa has some great hikes, one starts at the ryokan and goes to a lookout at a shrine a few km away. Then I'd go on to Matsumoto via Nagano, then to Kamikouchi. And Takayama is awesome too. The train ride back through the mountains to Nagoya is really special.

Great time of year to be going, so have a ball!

Thanks :)

Yeah, once I get it sorted I can get excited.

Sorry, how does that suggested route look like/work from Tokyo to Kyoto?

Sounds like starting and ending in Nagano.

If you have plan to stay at farm house in Shirakawa-go, then it will probably be better. If you only plan for day visit, a visit to Hida-no-sato will give you some idea if you will be interested/bothered with the attraction.

Yes for Matsumoto, enter during day, come back at night for the lighting. Matsumoto Castle is also known for Crow castle due to its use of black colour for the castle. Since it is the original castle that has not been reconstructed, expect really really steep stairs inside, pretty much standard for original castles I assume, been to 4 of them and so far the stairs are all pretty steep.In case you are wondering what do I mean by original castles, most Japan current castles are reconstructed, eg. Osaka castle is a concrete reconstructed castle with elevator in it. Himeji is one of the more famous original castle, original castle as it implies it is the same castle as centuries ago, probably with some renovation here and there but it is not reconstructed (on side note Himeji renovation will only be completed next year in 2015)

If you have plan to stay in Shirakawa-go, then there is no reason why you will want to take bus back to Takayama and train to Toyama then Kanazawa, just take bus from Shirakawa-go to Kanazawa.Otherwise, Takayama - Toyama - Kanazawa would be a better choice for value. For Matsumoto - Takayama though, please do use bus to save all those travel time, but since you are going to Shirahone-onsen etc, bus will probably best options.

Kyoto has a lot to offer too, a lot of the places where you can go are not that readily available on English oriented website, apart from that my impression of Kyoto is LOTS and LOTS of temples/shrines.

I am more of a city guy I guess, so Tokyo is a lot more attractive to me, especially I like to train hop to different neighbourhood depending on my mood or what train line I was at during that time, aka non-planned trip..

However, Tokyo has many things to offer to different people with different likings or preferences, it is a matter of do you know what you want to see versus do you know where to look for them etc.

As for:
Sorry, how does that suggested route look like/work from Tokyo to Kyoto?

Sounds like starting and ending in Nagano.
Don't really get what you mean, sorry..

Thanks

Sorry, that was in reply to Lazy Pious's suggestion.

Think I understand now.

Means to take Shinkansen from Tokyo to Karuizawa (3 hours)

Then I think Karuizawa to Nagano (30 mins?), and Nagano to Matsumoto (1 hour by train I think), and then the same as I planned?

Not described on japan guide, but that's my understanding.

I'm not a big spender or looking to stay at fancy resorts though. Karuizawa looks like it may be a bit pricey to stay there?

Yes, that is what I meant. Karuizawa isnt really a fancy resort, it is more a trendy (for Japanese standards) town. But at the top of the shopping street the hike starts, it follows the Nakasendo trail to a lookout and shrine http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6035.html and the best dango place ever (Karuizawa has everything buckwheat). Seriously I thoughjt it was all much more interesting that Tsumago/Magome. Tsuruya ryokan was pretty cheap.

As Lazy Pious has mentioned about Karuizawa, it will probably only worthwhile if you have plan to stay in Karuizawa. The place has kinda been a designated summer vacation spots since it's discovery etcetc.

Karuizawa is rather big on its own, and probably has a lot to offer for exploring and hiking etc, I was there for a day and realized that I will probably need another day or two to fully explore or enjoy the place. Do rent a bike and stay for a night at least in Karuizawa, that is if you plan to go there.

Thanks, may not add it this time as doesn't get my further through alps and quote I got from Tsuruya Ryokan was higher than expected, at almost 40k Yen (including dinner/breakfast).
Perhaps better and quite a bit cheaper without food. Used Japanese guest houses, and got a quote per person, perhaps because I asked about food.

Going to try to sort out Mutsumoto leg first, as will need to go there and looks nice. Trying to see if Kiso valley can be done as well that day from Mutsumoto before staying around Matsumoto to go to Kamikochi. Although agree that Karuizawa looks more interesting. Seems good as a independent quick trip away from Tokyo destination, suppose it's used exactly as that at weekends by Tokyo residents.

By the way Lazy Pious, how did you get to Kamikochi? I thought at first onsen rokyan in okuhida were near enough kamikochi but not sure now. Struggling to find a place.

Is there a visitor centre to leave bags? So could leave bags, walk through kamikochi and then perhaps get a shuttle service to the ryokan?

Gooday. we took the Matsumoto Electric Railway from Matsumoto then the bus (see the Kamikotchi page for details). It is really easy, I am hopeless with this kind of thing and I managed it.

The bus stops at a few places but eventually you go through a big uphill tunnel which I think is blocked off in winter. Once you get through there there are a few more stops but the important ones are the stop outside Taisho pond (great coffee shop there with awesome apple tart!), then outside the Imperial Hotel (red hotel, cant miss it) - that is also near the Onsen Hotel where we stayed - awesome curry for lunch!, then the next stop is essentially the terminal, you cant miss it. That is nearer Kappabashi (sp?), there is like a transit centre there and I'm sure it has lockers etc. There is also a restaurant with awesome food, pretty cheap! Try the rice sprinkle stuff, I got addicted to it and bought two of them home, now we are running out and cant get that blend (I think salt buckwheat and mixed sesame). I'm devastated...

Also be careful not to step in monkey crap. It is everywhere...

Just wanted to offer a simple suggestion.
I know you want flexiblity but make up your mind on staying on in Kyoto, FujiQ, or head south west after your pal leaves you.

It is bothering Autumn season. The foilage means Kyoto is packed. Nights are full of lighted up gardens and days are full of temple strollers.
Book accomodations early. Perhaps, cycle from Kobe to west Shikoku. Thru to the east and to Osaka. Spend a night or two back at Kyoto to see the leaves in their splender.
A night FujiQ.
Off to Tokyo to Narita?