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Drive or Use Bus/Train from Fuji to Yudanaka? 2017/6/29 08:04
My partner and I will have a rental car to explore the Fuji area this August. From there, we wish to head to Yudanaka - Takaragawa Onsen - back to Shinjuku. These are the two transportation options we are considering:

Option A: Extend our car rental in Fuji and drive directly to Yudanaka - Takaragawa Onsen - Shinjuku. In this scenario, we will not purchase JR passes for the Japan trip since the rest of our trip is around central Tokyo. We prefer to drop off car in Shinjuku despite extra costs since there's a car rental shop two blocks from our Shinjuku hotel. We'll be returning quite late in the night with bulky luggage. We estimate the extra costs for car drop-off in Shinjuku (extra tolls, fuel) to be comparable to two train tickets back to Shinjuku from Echigo-Yuzawa (the other car drop off location).

Option B: Take bus from Kawaguchiko back to Shinjuku. From Shinkjuku, take train to Nagano. Rent car in Nagano to drive to Yudanaka & then to Takaragawa. Return car at Echigo-Yuzawa and take train back to Shinjuku. In this scenario, we would both purchase JR passes in advance. Keep in mind that we're still renting a car for the Nagano - Yudanaka - Takaragawa part of this trip. We just won't be driving from Kawaguchiko to Nagano and from Takaragawa to Shinjuku.

We understand that traffic could be horrid and that toll/fuel costs can be astronomical. We did a cost analysis, and at this point, the total cost of option A & B are pretty close since total cost of JR passes & non-JR bus tickets & Ta-Q-bin services for two people are not cheap either. Could someone more familiar with driving conditions for routes Kawaguchiko to Nagano and Takaragawa Onsen to Shinjuku help weigh the pro's and con's and advise on the best course? Many travelers outside Japan have advised against driving altogether, but we feel the cons of driving in Japan may be blown out of proportion-- or perhaps not. We're both city dwellers and are use to crawling traffic on expressways.

Thanks so much!

by L. (guest)  

Re: Drive or Use Bus/Train from Fuji to Yudanaka? 2017/7/4 18:11
The part of Shinjuku to Kawaguchiko is not interesting enough. The direct bus on this route could be enough.

From Kawaguchiko to Yudanaka, there are Lake Suwa, Matsumoto (castle), Nagano (Zenkoji), and Obuse (village). All of them are doable by trains. I mean just getting back to Shinjuku would be nothing. In summer, I prefer to go over Mt Yatsugatake, skipping Lake Suwa and Matsumoto.

From Yudanaka to Takaragawa, you go over Mt Shirane and Kusatsu. That would be more appealing than the Yatsugatake route.

You could come back to Shinjuku on the Kan-etsu Highway from Takaragawa. But, it would be just boring. I would suggest making a detour to Nikko. There is another Mt Shirane in the Oze and Nikko area. Okunikko, having Lake Chuzenji, could be more appealing than the Kusatsu Shiranesan area.

From Nikko to Shinjuku could be boring, too. But driving in Tokyo highways in the night time could be a fun.

So, my preference is

1. Nagano - Yudanaka - Kusatsu-Shiranesan - Takaragawa - Nikko-Shiranesan - Nikko
2. Kawaguchiko - Yutsugatake - Nagano
3. Tokyo highways
4. Shinjuku - Kawaguchiko, Nikko - Shinjuku

I might limit a driving from Nagano to Nikko, or from Kawaguchiko to Nikko. Both Kawaguchiko - Shinjuku, and Nikko - Shinjuku cost less than 2k yen by public transport. But it would be easier to handle the luggage by doing them all by a car.

The driver's seat is on the right. Cars run on the left. Are you getting to used to them? Roads are rather narrow in a mountainous nation. In August, the traffic could be busier in the country sides than in the cities. Especially, in mid-August, there is the Bon on Aug 15 and the mountain day on Aug 11.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2286.html
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E3%81%AE%E6%97%A5
by Luisjp rate this post as useful

Best place to drop off rental car near Shinjuku? 2017/7/5 05:59
We'll have a car to drive around for several days along country roads, but will be returning to Shinjuku at the end of our road trip. We've received a lot of feedback discouraging us from dropping off our car rental in Shinjuku due to traffic and confusing roads, understandably.

Anyone able to suggest a better car rental drop off point just outside Shinjuku, but still within a very cheap train ticket ride back to Shinjuku? Some drop-off points now being considered are: Nakano Station, Hachioji Station, and Omiya Station. Or are driving conditions around those stations not much better than Shinjuku and not worth the hassle of the extra train trip? We'll be returning from Gunma prefecture on the last leg of this road trip. Someone recommended dropping off car at Jomo-Kogen station, but that would cost my partner and I over $100 in train tickets back. For that much, we might as well just pay for toll into Shinjuku and deal with the hassle as it's just a one time deal. Thoughts?
by Jazzabela rate this post as useful

Re: Drive or Use Bus/Train from Fuji to Yudanaka? 2017/7/5 16:57
40 million Tokyo residents do not live in the heart of Tokyo but in the suburbs. Nakano is known to be the most populous wards in Japan. Omiya and Hachioji are the cores of the area. Here is a list of daily passengers in these stations and some comparisons.

Shinjuku 3,719,830
Nakano 379,611
Omiya 646,534
Hachioji 162,948

Kyoto 630,047
Shin-Osaka 350,673
Hiroshima 175,064

But, in summer, in the heart of the big city, not all business activities are expected, while casual lives as usual. The ratios between Shinjuku and others would be decreased in that period.

Anyway, you will rent a car from Toyota; only Toyota has branches in all in Shinjuku, Echigo-Yuzawa, and Jomo-Kogen. For going further steps, I need more info. But I tried some in the below.

I assumed you would start from Minakami IC at 15:50 on 2017.8.15. The traffic prediction tool, only available in Japanese, estimated that the best route would take 3h42m to Shinjuku IC; the English one is for the current conditions only.
https://www.drivetraffic.jp/map.html?t=p&pmode=cal
http://www.driveplaza.com/dp/ResultFromMap
https://www.drivetraffic.jp/pc_en/map.html

The first traffic jam on this route would be expected from Showa IC to Maebashi IC.
https://www.drivetraffic.jp/map.html?t=p&fctime=201708151550&lat=35,41...

If you want to avoid it, you should go to Jomo-Kogen Station or Numata Station. The train costs to Shinjuku are 5180 yen from Jomo-Kogen, and 2590 yen from Numata.
https://rent.toyota.co.jp/rakuraku/shop/pref/list.aspx?sFlg=3&pref=10%...
https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&from=Jomokogen&to=Shinjuku&dat...
https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&from=Numata&to=Shinjuku&date=0...

The next traffic jam would start from Takasaki IC to Tsurugashima IC.

If you want to avoid it, it would be better to go on Route 17 all the way to Omiya. There are many traffic lights on the way, though. You could drop a car at Omiya, but no traffic jams were expected on the expressways from here to Shinjuku.
https://rent.toyota.co.jp/rakuraku/shop/pref/list.aspx?sFlg=3&pref=11%...
https://rent.toyota.co.jp/rakuraku/shop/pref/list.aspx?sFlg=3&pref=13%...

As I said above, in summer, the city center would be rather empty. That is why I recommended skipping only the parts of Kawaguchiko-Shinjuku and Nikko-Shinjuku in my previous post. Moreover, there would be many bicycles in the urban areas, especially in residential areas such as Nakano, Omiya, and Hachioji.
by Luisjp rate this post as useful

Re: Drive or Use Bus/Train from Fuji to Yudanaka? 2017/7/5 18:04
I'm impressed with the information you were able to gather! Here are some details of the last leg of the trip, which might help to narrow down options:

- Leaving from Minakami IC around 11:00 a.m. on August 21
- We have a rental from Nippon-Rent-a-Car (One person recommended Jomo-Kogen because they assumed we'd get a Toyota rental)

Would like to know best choice for car drop-off rental location (factoring in cost & ease of driving). The rental cost of dropping off the car at any shop between Minakami & Tokyo city center is the same for us. Our hotel is two blocks from the Shinjuku rental station, so our initial plan but was to just return the car at the Shinjuku Higashi Yasukuni-dori shop-- two blocks from our hotel, but we've been advised by many not to drive into Shinjuku as it would be too hectic and confusing.

Thanks for the help. Though there's tons of info out there on Japan travel in general, figuring out expressway tolls & traffic conditions has been difficult due to my lack of Japanese language skills. Most of those useful tools are indeed only in Japanese.
by Jazzabela rate this post as useful

Re: Drive or Use Bus/Train from Fuji to Yudanaka? 2017/7/6 15:44
I could show the following three options assisted by the driveplaza's tool.
http://www.driveplaza.com/dp/SearchQuick

Option 1: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.749223,138.9743153/関越自動車道/練馬IC出入口/ニッポンレンタカー+新宿東靖国通り/
11:00 Minakami IC
E17/Kan-etsu Expressway
12:31 Nerima IC (3830 yen) https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.749223,138.9743153/関越自動車道/練馬IC出入口/
Mejiro/Shin-Mejiro Dori
Takatobashi intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7143631,139.7113114,21z
Meiji Dori
Shinjuku 5-Chome Higashi Intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6921123,139.7070159,21z
Yasukuni Dori
13:36 Nippon-Rent-a-Car Shinjuku Higashi Yasukuni-dori shop https://www.google.com/maps/dir/関越自動車道/練馬IC出入口/ニッポンレンタカー+新宿東靖国通り/

Option 2: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.749223,138.9743153/35.6931265,139.6...ニッポンレンタカー+新宿東靖国通り/
11:00 Minakami IC
E17/Kan-etsu Expressway
12:31 Oizumi JCT
C2/Tokyo-gaikan Expressway
12:38 Bijogi JCT
5/Shutoko Ikebukuro line
12:51 Itabashi JCT
C3/Shutoko Chuo Kanjo line
12:58 Nakano-chojabashi IC (5880 yen (ETC: 5030 yen)) https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.749223,138.9743153/35.6931265,139.6...
Some general roads to Yasukuni Dori https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.6931265,139.6822555/ニッポンレンタカー+新宿東靖国通り/
13:16 Nippon-Rent-a-Car Shinjuku Higashi Yasukuni-dori shop https://www.nrgroup-global.com/en/branch.php?id=383

Option 3: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.749223,138.9743153/35.9667412,139.3...ニッポンレンタカー坂戸営業所/ニッポンレンタカー+新宿東靖国通り/
11:00 Minakami IC
E17/Kan-etsu Expressway
12:11 Sakado Nishi Smart IC (3020 yen) https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.749223,138.9743153/35.9667412,139.3...
General roads https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.9667412,139.3838643/ニッポンレンタカー坂戸営業所/
12:18 Nippon-Rent-a-Car Sakado shop https://www.nrgroup-global.com/en/branch.php?id=471
7 min walk
12:37 Sakado station
Tobu/Tokyo Metro trains (660 yen) https://world.jorudan.co.jp/mln/en/?p=0&xpd=1&from=Sakado%28Saitama%29...
13:32 Shinjuku 3-chome station https://www.google.com/maps/dir/ニッポンレンタカー坂戸営業所/ニッポンレンタカー+新宿東靖国通り/

The options 1 and 2 are compared in this map.
http://www.shutoko.co.jp/~/media/pdf/english/drive/map_english170523.p...

The option 2 could work with Shinjuku IC. The option 3 by Tsurugashima IC, which is eaiser to access the shop on the west side of the road.

Other than Google Maps, you could see drivetraffic's forecasts by changing the fctime variable in the url below.
https://www.drivetraffic.jp/map.html?t=p&fctime=201708211100

Current conditions could be monitored even for Shutoko.
https://www.drivetraffic.jp/pc_en/map.html
http://search.shutoko-eng.jp/en/index.html

The option 2 is the fastest but most expensive. It needs to pass three JCTs, but a short drive on gereral roads in Shinjuku area. The option 1 and 3 are similar in time and cost. The option 3 needs a transfer to train and an extra cost, but a drive on general roads are minimum. Only two turns are nesessary in the option 1, but it needs a one-hour drive on general roads.
by Luisjp rate this post as useful

Re: Drive or Use Bus/Train from Fuji to Yudanaka? 2017/7/7 08:19
Thanks, Luisjp. I appreciate your help with researching. I'll examine the links more closely and see which would be the best course for our situation.
by Jazzabela rate this post as useful

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