Travel to Japan Alps in November

Hello,

I'll be travelling to Japan in November for 3 weeks for the autumn foliage season and appreciate if anyone could please give me some advice regarding some of the questions that i have below;

1. I'm thinking of spending a couple days in Kusatsu onsen and Mt Shirane, Fuji 5 lakes, and then to Matsumoto to explore the Japan Alps region starting from Tokyo. I am aware that there is no direct public transport from Mt Fuji 5 lakes and Kusatsu, and travelling via Tokyo is unavoidable. It seems that Kusatsu onsen and Matsumoto are not too far on the map. So should i travel to Mt Fuji area from Tokyo and then return to Tokyo and travel to Kusatsu onsen from Tokyo and then onto Matsumoto? Or is it worth going to Kusatsu Onsen at all considering the hassle of having to go back to Tokyo?
2. Is it worth going a day trip to Kamikochi from Matsumoto in second week of November as the autumn foliage will be beyond its peak?
3. I'm thinking of using Matsumoto as a base for day trips to Kamikochi, Kurobe Alpine Route, and Kiso valley before heading to Nagoya. However, in order to travel the entire Kurobe Alpine Route, staying overnight in Toyama may be unavoidable. Will it be better to leave Matsumoto early in the morning and travel the entire Kurobe Alpine route and stay overnight in Takayama and the next day travel from Takayama to Kamikochi before heading to Nagoya and take day trip to Kiso valley from Nagoya? Will it be better in terms of transport?
4. I intend to use Nagoya as a base to Korankei valley, Obara town, and Mt Horaiji. I'll probably spend 1 day at each place. Is it too much? Is it worth travelling to Obara town and Mt Horaiji as 2 separate day trips?

Thank you so much in advance everyone :)

The season for sightseeing in Japan starts from Sakura, the cherry blossoms, and ends with Momiji, the autumn foliage. Some sites could be also good with snow. Basically, it is an off-season after the Momiji.

Mt Shirane mid-Sep - early Oct http://koyo.walkerplus.com/detail/ar0310e154483/
Alpine route mid-Sep - early Oct http://www.alpen-route.com/enjoy_navi/seasons/autumn.html
Japan Alps late Sep - early Oct http://youkoso.city.matsumoto.nagano.jp/spot/?page_id=1868
Kusatsu onsen late Sep - late Oct http://topiclabo.com/3862.html
Kamikochi mid-Oct - late Oct https://sk-imedia.com/kamikouchikoyo-3100.html
Matsumoto late Oct http://youkoso.city.matsumoto.nagano.jp/spot/?page_id=1868

Takayama mid-Nov http://www.jalan.net/theme/koyo/gifu/22_koyo16.html
Kiso Valley mid-Nov http://www.nagano-tabi.net/modules/season/kouyoudayori.html?areaid=05
Fuji 5 lakes late Oct - Nov http://www.kyukamura.jp/%E5%AF%8C%E5%A3%AB%E5%B1%B1%E3%83%BB%E5%AF%8C%...
Toyama late Oct - late Nov http://koyo.walkerplus.com/list/ar0516/
Mt Horaiji mid-Nov - late Nov http://koyo.walkerplus.com/detail/ar0623e13130/
Korankei mid-Nov - late Nov http://koyo.walkerplus.com/detail/ar0623e12994/

Obara late Nov - early Dec http://www.kankou-obara.toyota.aichi.jp/?cat=14
Nagoya late Nov - early Dec http://koyo.walkerplus.com/list/ar0623/
Tokyo late Nov - early Dec http://koyo.walkerplus.com/list/ar0313/

As in the above, the mountains will be over. The northern parts as well. You would be better to rearrange your destinations. The line connecting Fuji five lakes, Takayama, and Toyama could be a limit.

Do you plan to use a car? Korankei is between Obara and Mt Horaiji.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/%E3%80%92470-0531+%E6%84%9B%E7%9F%A5%E...
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/H%C5%8Drai-ji+Temple,+%EF%BC%91+%E9%96...

The period above for Obara is for winter cherry blossoms.
http://www.kankou-obara.toyota.aichi.jp/english/shikizakura.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obara,_Aichi

The first and last transfers for Obara.
Marunouchi 541-629 Toyotashi 649-759 Kaminigi 2101-2206 Toyotashi 2210-2248 Gokiso
http://michinavitoyota.jp/portal/map_en.html

Daytime in Nagoya on 30 Nov is 641-1641. Horaiji alone just fits it.
Nagoya 713-807 Toyohashi 810-922 Honnagashino 947-955 Horaiji 1357-1405 Honnagashino 1420-1516 Toyohashi 1521-1612 Nagoya
https://www.toyotetsu.jp/station/491/P1/
https://www.toyotetsu.jp/station/497/P2/

Thank you so much for your response in details. I'm wondering whether it's still worth a trip to Kurobe Alpine Route despite the autumn foliage beyond its peak as it's quite expensive or should i leave it till next time? Will the Kurobe Gorge trip be more worthwhile around mid Nov for the autumn foliage?

Agree that it may not justify the expensive travelling cost on the Alpine Route if visited after autumn foliage season. Consider saving it for a spring visit and go for its mighty snow corridor.

We were a bit disappointed when we went to Kurobe Gorge during mid Nov as koyo had already past its peak. It seems that early Nov is a better time.

Korankei would be a very good choice for autumn foliage during the second half of Nov, just be sure to allocate plenty of time to get there and back from Nagoya. We drove and were stuck in traffic for 3 hrs during the last 7 km into town.

The autumn foliage is similar to the cherry blossoms. If the peak comes, that should be regarded as the end. Both have some yearly variations, so you should keep on watching the current status. If you have not heard of the peak, then think of going there.

The Alpine Route calendar suggests the peak would be early October. Their navigation site indicates the maple viewing till mid-November, but it is at Bijodaira at 977 m. So, it should not be regarded as the Alpine Route itself.
http://www.alpen-route.com/information/calendar/
http://www.alpen-route.com/enjoy_navi/seasons/

The Kurobe Gorge has their Facebook page. Checking their official comments, I could say the peak was on 7 Nov in 2016. There was a snow on 9 Nov. They say 100% on 15 Nov, but it was at Unazuki. You should take 50% at Unazuki on 1 Nov as a good guideline to go there.
https://www.facebook.com/kurotetu

26 Oct The first comment
28 Oct A positive comment
31 Oct Positive
2 Nov Positive
4 Nov Positive
7 Nov Positive / The peak
12 Nov Negative
24 Nov The official end

You might have a very difficult time getting to Kamikochi, or to anywhere high up in the Japan Alps, in November. It's cold, and there could be snow on the hills. I'd say spend the extra time in Matsumoto. And do more than just see the castle. Matsumoto is a wonderful city. Suggestion: Walk the ridge from Joyama Park up to Alps Park in Matsumoto, especially early in the morning when the sun is in the opposite direction. The view of the Japan Alps looking northwest from that trail, especially on a clear autumn morning when there's snow on the peaks, is outstanding. There's also a free observation tower at Joyama Park that gets you up well over the treeline. The couple that run "Matsumoto Backpackers", a hostel very near the main train station, are both mountain climbers, so if you were to stay at their place, they'd have lots of helpful information about the area.

Thank you very much everyone. Much appreciate it.... Seems that i have to revise my plan for the Japan Alps now.... :D

@Luis The season for sightseeing in Japan starts from Sakura, the cherry blossoms, and ends with Momiji, the autumn foliage.

really?!

I think you need to visit Japan a bit more. More than 2 million people per month visit every month and that includes your "off season". Your statement is misleading/false - hence my reaction.

I have seen many posts trying to do the sightseeing in the off season. Sakura and Momiji are the keys all over Japan. If Momiji has passed, you have to find other special purposes, such as snow, and expect some difficulties, even in the transportations. Not everyone wants to travel among cities all year round, such as the poster here.

That may well be true, though I have found the sakura season to be way too crowded and quite commercialised, and similar with autumn. My favorite times to visit are May (when you can still see some sakura at places like Bessho Onsen) and the end of November/early December when the full effect of autumn has passed but then so have the crowds. Even late December has some autumn colours in places like Arashiyama, though my colour demands arent particularly high as I live in a sub-tropical climate.

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone could please give me some input with the following itinerary for Nov that i have come up below (all by public transport);

Does the below seem too rush? Another question is that is it worth going to Kiso valley (given that i've been to Takayama before) or should i spend more time in Kyoto?

It seems travelling to and back from Shirahone onsen is quite time consuming, is it worth after all? The reason i choose to go there is because the onsen water seems very unique and i just want to experience ryokan stay and kaiseki dinner at an affordable price....

DAY

1 LEAVE FOR JAPAN
2 ARRIVE TOKYO, ASAKUSA, SENSOJI TEMPLE
3 DAY TRIP TO IBARAKI, FUKURODA FALL, KAIRAKUEN PARK, MT TSUKUBA
4 TSUKIJI, MEIJI SHRINE, SHINJUKU GARDEN, RIKUGIEN, KOISHIKAWA KORAKUEN
5 DAY TRIP TO KAMAKURA
6 MT FUJI, KAWAGUCHIKO, CHUREITO PAGODA
7 SAIKO, TRAVEL TO MATSUMOTO LATE AFTERNOON VIA KOFU AND SPEND NIGHT IN KOFU
8 SHOSENKYO GORGE IN KOFU AND SPEND NIGHT IN MATSUMOTO
9 MATSUMOTO CASTLE & JOYAMA PARK, SHIRAHONE ONSEN IN THE AFTERNOON
10 SHIRAHONE ONSEN BACK MATSUMOTO VIA SHUTTLE BUS, MATSUMOTO TO TOYAMA VIA NAGANO, MONKEY PARK IF TIME ALLOWS, SPEND THE NIGHT IN TOYAMA
11 KUROBE GORGE (EXPECT 11 NOV)
12 TOYAMA TO NAGOYA VIA KANAZAWA, KENROKUEN IN KANAZAWA, HIMI COASTLINE IN THE MORNING
13 DAY TRIP TO KORANKEI VALLEY, OBARA IF TIME ALLOWS
14 DAY TRIP TO KISO VALLEY FROM NAGOYA, NAGOYA TO KYOTO AND STAY KYOTO
15 KYOTO
16 ARASHIYAMA
17 HALF DAY NARA, HALF DAY UJI
18 KYOTO
19 KYOTO TO SHINGU, KUMANO KODO
20 DAY TRIP TO NACHI FALL, HONGU
21 SHINGU TO ISE SHIMA, VISIT ISE GRAND SHRINE
22 TOBA, AMAHUT, ISE BACK TO OSAKA LATE AFTERNOON
23 DAY TRIP TO KOYA SAN
24 HOME



Thank you so much in advance :)

If you start late in each day, it could be rushed. The daytime is short in November. Even if you leave quite early, the Ibaraki part needs to be fixed. You allocate three full days in Kyoto and Arashiyama. Many use only two full days for those. So, I may vote for the Kiso Valley. There is a pedestrian only section in Magome. If you plan to come back to Kamikochi, consider doing Shirahone with Norikura in summer.
http://www.alpico.co.jp/access/kamikochi/

2 ARRIVE TOKYO, ASAKUSA, SENSOJI TEMPLE
Jalan pages are in Japanese, but they show bar charts for the seasonality and more numbers to be looked.
1-2 hr Sensoji http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13106ag2130012302/

3 DAY TRIP TO IBARAKI, FUKURODA FALL, KAIRAKUEN PARK, MT TSUKUBA
Daytime at Mito on Nov 3: 6:03-16:40
Asakusa 745-1247 Fukuroda 1300-1525 Kairakuen 1527-1811 Tsukubasan 540(+1)-817(+1) Asakusa (by timetables on 15 Aug): Impossible in a day! You would need to stay in Mito. If you arrive in Haneda early, what about this?
D1 Haneda 1100-1348 Tsukubasan 1700-1920 Mito
D2 Kairakuen - Mito 1102-1412 Fukuroda 1550-1952 Asakusa
1-2 hr Fukuroda http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_08364ab2040005938/
1-2 hr Kairakuen http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_08201ah2140016450/
3+ hr Tsukubasan http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_08220ab2010003284/

4 TSUKIJI, MEIJI SHRINE, SHINJUKU GARDEN, RIKUGIEN, KOISHIKAWA KORAKUEN
Daytime at Tokyo on Nov 4: 6:06-16:43
Asakusa 607-633 Tsukiji 634-706 Meiji Jingu 708-721 Gyoen 721-757 Rokugien 757-822 Koishikwa 823-849 Asakusa: Leaving eight hours for five places; it looks OK. You may do Asakusa after the sunset here. Note that the seasonal Jingu Gaien is different from Meiji Jingu.
1-2 hr Tsukiji Jogai http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13102aj2200116193/
1-2 hr (Tsukiji Market) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000151723/
1-2 hr Meiji Jingu http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13113ag2130014473/
1-2 hr (Jingu Gaien) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13104ah3330042204/
1-3 hr Gyoen http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13104ah2140016473/
1-2 hr Rikugien http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13105ah2140016676/
1-2 hr Koishikawa http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_13105ah2140016609/

5 DAY TRIP TO KAMAKURA

6 MT FUJI, KAWAGUCHIKO, CHUREITO PAGODA
7 SAIKO, TRAVEL TO MATSUMOTO LATE AFTERNOON VIA KOFU AND SPEND NIGHT IN KOFU
8 SHOSENKYO GORGE IN KOFU AND SPEND NIGHT IN MATSUMOTO
Daytime at Kofu on Nov 6: 6:13-16:45
6 Asakusa 805-1058 Kawaguchiko
7 Kawaguchiko 1418-1650 Kofu
8 Kofu 909-1012 Shosenkyo 1325-1602 Matsumoto
Kawaguchiko area in one day plus and Shosenkyo in three hours: all would be rather ideal.
1-2 hr Kawaguchiko http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19427ab2030004495/
3+ hr (area) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19426cb3530080591/
1-2 hr Niikurayama http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19202ah3330042646/
-1 hr Saiko http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19428cb3530080963/
1-3 hr Shosenkyo http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19201ab2040005906/
1-2 hr (Koyo) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19201ac2100147635/
1-2 hr (Ropeway) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19201ee4570112134/
1-2 hr (Observatory) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_19201ad3350046121/

9 MATSUMOTO CASTLE & JOYAMA PARK, SHIRAHONE ONSEN IN THE AFTERNOON
1-2 hr Matsumotojo http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20202af2120158570/
? Joyama Koen http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20202ab2080158568/
3+ hr (Alps Koen) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20202ah3330158690/
3+ hr Shirahone http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20202cd2111000218/
http://www.alpico.co.jp/access/kamikochi/shirahone/

10 SHIRAHONE ONSEN BACK MATSUMOTO VIA SHUTTLE BUS, MATSUMOTO TO TOYAMA VIA NAGANO, MONKEY PARK IF TIME ALLOWS, SPEND THE NIGHT IN TOYAMA
Shirahone 920-1122 Matsumoto 1149-1415 Yudanaka 1436-1451 Kambayashi -(35 min)- Jigokudani -(35 min)- Kambayashi 1651-1746 Nagano 1757-1923 Toyama: Possible, though somewhat rushed. The average spending time in Jokokudani is one hour and plus. The way from Kambayashi Onsen to Toyama should be in the dark. I prefer to stay in Shibu Onsen.
1-2 hr Jigokudani http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20561cc3310164979/
3+ hr Shibu Onsen http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20561cd2110164954/
http://www.nagadenbus.co.jp/local/diagram/diagram.php?route=NKN01
http://jigokudani-yaenkoen.co.jp/access
http://www.nagadenbus.co.jp/common/document/siga_2017_summer.pdf

11 KUROBE GORGE (EXPECT 11 NOV)
I would stay in Unazuki Onsen after Shibu.
3+ hr Kurobe http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000118001/
3+ hr Unazuki http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_16341cd2110077981/

12 TOYAMA TO NAGOYA VIA KANAZAWA, KENROKUEN IN KANAZAWA, HIMI COASTLINE IN THE MORNING
Daytime at Toyama on Nov 12: 6:25-16:45
Toyama 621-758 Nadaura Coast 830-1103 Kenrokuen 1324-1653 Nagoya: OK, but the sun will be in the direction of the Japan Alps in the morning.
-1 hr Amaharashi Kaigan http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_16202ab2050006550/
-1 hr Himi Kaigan http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_16205ab2052035697/
-1 hr Himi Nadaura Kaigan http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_16205ab2052007473/
1-2 hr Kenrokuen http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_17201ah2140016713/

13 DAY TRIP TO KORANKEI VALLEY, OBARA IF TIME ALLOWS
Daytime at Nagoya on Nov 13: 6:25-16:48
Nagoya 730-824 Umetsubo 839-944 Kaminigi 1219-1340 Sanage 1343-1423 Korankei 1641-1740 Josui 1742-1826: Rather easy. You would take more time in both places. Obara has working courses, while Korankei should have light-up events in the evening.
1-3 hr Shikizakura http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_23523ac2100156644/
http://www.kankou-obara.toyota.aichi.jp/?cat=4
1-3 hr Korankei http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_23541ab2040006220/
1-3 hr (Momiji) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_23541ac2100131701/
2 hr (Momiji Tunnel) http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_23211ac2102042240/
http://michinavitoyota.jp/portal/map.html?_tf=tn
http://asuke.info/archives/001/201708/H29%E5%B9%B4%E5%BA%A6_%E5%90%8D%...

14 DAY TRIP TO KISO VALLEY FROM NAGOYA, NAGOYA TO KYOTO AND STAY KYOTO
There are some variations to do in the Kiso Valley. Narai from the train station, a bus ride from Tsumago to Magome, and a walk on that route. It would take three hours on foot, but there is a luggage transfer by 500 yen. Narai is closer from Matsumoto. Nagiso is almost in the middle between Nagoya and Matsumoto. So, you may finish the Kiso Valley while you are in Matsumoto.
Nagoya 639-800 Nagiso - Tsumago - Magome 1404-1649 Kyoto
1-2 hr Magome http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000184723/
1-2 hr Tsumago http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_20423ad2150163338/
1-2 hr Narai http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000152427/
http://www.town.nagiso.nagano.jp/data/open/cnt/3/3851/1/bus-timetable....
http://www.kiso-magome.com/map/mapimages/nakasendo-2010.pdf
http://www.kiso-magome.com/migarunatabi.html

15 KYOTO
16 ARASHIYAMA
17 HALF DAY NARA, HALF DAY UJI
18 KYOTO
19 KYOTO TO SHINGU, KUMANO KODO
There are several routes from Kyoto to Shingu; via Nagoya, Nara, or Wakayama. The fastest would be via Nagoya. But here I adopt the route via Wakayama. It includes one of the Kumano Kodo routes, Ohechi, the coastal one from Tanabe to Shingu. How much do you want to walk on the trails? If you want to do a round trip around Hongu, it would take a full day. So, do the Nachi area on this day, stay in Yunomine Onsen, and use the next day for Hongu. If you do not walk on such much, one and a half days for this area could be quite leisurely, compared with others.
Daytime at Wakayama on Nov 19: 6:36-16:53
Kyoto 636-1154 Shingu
http://www2.tb-kumano.jp/en/kumano-kodo/pdf/Kumano-Kodo-Nakahechi-Rout...
3-4 hr Yunomine - Hosshin-Oji http://www.hongu.jp/kumanokodo/walk/akagigoe/
3.5 hr Hosshin-Oji - Hongu http://www.hongu.jp/kumanokodo/walk/hosshin/
2 hr Hongu - Yunomine http://www.hongu.jp/kumanokodo/walk/dainichigoe/
http://www2.tb-kumano.jp/en/kumano-kodo/pdf/Kumano-Kodo-Nakahechi-Rout...

20 DAY TRIP TO NACHI FALL, HONGU
There are three Taisha shrines in this area; Hongu, Nachi, and Hayatama. Hongu is in the mountains, while Nachi near Katsuura and Hayatama near Shingu are closer to the sea. One of the most famous parts of the Kumano Kodo is Daimonzaka near Nachi. Daimonzaka has a dedicated bus stop. Also with the waterfall, Nachi-Katsuura would be the most popular site among the three. There is Bokido Spa in Hotel Urashima in Katsuura.
Bus timetables.
Katsuura - Nachi - Nachisan http://www.kumakou.co.jp/bus/jikoku_item_9.html
Shingu - Nachi - Katsuura (JR could be better) http://www.kumakou.co.jp/bus/jikoku_item_4.html
Shingu - Hongu http://www.kumakou.co.jp/bus/jikoku_item_7.html
Shingu - Hongu - Yagi(in Nara; you may come to Shingu from Kyoto or Nara by this bus.) http://www.narakotsu.co.jp/rosen/yagi-shingu/totsukawa-timetable.html
1 hr Hongu Taisha http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_30426ag2130013133/
1 hr Nachi no Otaki http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000172017/
1-2 hr Nachi Taisha http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_30421ag2130013132/
1 hr Daimonzaka http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000175133/
3+ hr Bokido http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000174431/
-1 hr Hayatama Taisha http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_30207ag2130010959/
http://www.hongu.jp/kumanokodo/

21 SHINGU TO ISE SHIMA, VISIT ISE GRAND SHRINE
Shingu 907-1232 Ise Jingu
1-2 hr Ise Jingu http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_24203ag2130012374/

22 TOBA, AMAHUT, ISE BACK TO OSAKA LATE AFTERNOON
Ise 653-729 Toba 1442-1657 Namba
It seems that there are at least two English speaking Ama huts in Toba. One has free shuttle bus from Toba, but there is a more frequent Kamome bus to the other. There are walking courses including Ishigami-san in Osatsu, Toba.
http://amakoya.com/english%20page.htm
http://osatsu.org/en/
http://www.city.toba.mie.jp/teikisen-kanri/teikisen/documents/english....
http://osatsu.org/en/pdf/map.pdf
-1 hr Ishigami-san http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_24211ag2132067875/

23 DAY TRIP TO KOYA SAN
3+ hr Koyasan http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_30344ab2010002963/
1-2 hr Okunoin http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_guide000000172065/
1 hr Kongobuji http://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_30344ag2130010978/
There are connecting buses between Hongu and Koyasan. So, there are several routes to cover this area; such as Nagoya - Ise/Toba - Nachi/Shingu/Hongu - Koyasan - Nara - Kyoto - Osaka - KIX.
http://seichijunrei-bus.jp/index_us.html

Thank you so much Luisjp... much appreciate for taking your time posting so many information... I'll surely take my time to go through them all :)