Company assignment to Japan - Living costs?

Hi folks,

First time here in this forum !

Today my manager floated me the idea of being relocated to Jpn (temporarily?) for at least 2 years. I was told to consider it and only if i am serious about it then we'll have the HR to make the necessary arrangements + video conf. interviews with folks from the Jpn branch office for formalities' sake. I work in the financial services industry. The Jpn desk function is under my department's purview(to be precise - my manager).

No expat package, overseas allowances or housing/rental subsidies - just my current basic salary converted to JPY... which is around gross JPY810K per month.

The company will provide me with the necessary housing (unsure of the size and location, was told this will only be known just 1 month before i move over) and they will fully subsidize the rental for 3 months. After which, i can either choose to stay on but pay my own rental or to look for other apartments on my own. The office is located around the area of Otemachi in Chiyoda, Tokyo.

My employee insurance plan will be transferred to the Japan office and will continue to be fully paid by the company (covers hospitalization, GP visits, dental excl. aesthetics).

Though, the assignment lasts for minimally 2 years - after which i could choose to stay or return to my country.

Just wondering - will my salary be sufficient for living in Tokyo - no expensive hobbies + still single in my early 30s but say if i want to get myself a car? I heard Tokyo has one of the highest living costs in the world (i been to Jpn for holidays but never really experienced daily life there).

Appreciate if anyone could share their experiences / tips / opinions.

That's way more than enough.

You really don't want to drive in Tokyo, though. If you need a car for travelling you can always rent one.

Hi Firas,

Thanks for your reply.

Allow me to add on more - the figure that i've quoted in my 1st post is before tax and all other mandatory deductibles. My living style is pretty simple - neither do I need to dine and wine in fancy restaurants nor do i shop a lot. I could make do with basically anything from fast foods to off-the-shelf bento in 7-11 or doing my shopping on Amazon once in a while.

But i really do love driving. Would you be able to elaborate why I should not drive in Tokyo? Is it because of the cost of upkeep (insurance/fuel/parking fees)? The inconvenience (parking / jams)?

But i hope having a car will not eat into my savings too much - not really looking into fancy cars but perhaps a 2017 CX-5 would do.

C

for driving you need to have a Japanese driving licence, you can use international just for one year. With international driving licence you cannot have insurance when buying a car.

Currybun
Where are you from? Do you have family or kids?

While your salary is good, one important question is school for kids
You would have to send them to international school which is like 2500K per year
if no kids then lucky you and you are going to have fun!!

Hello,

I am from HK and still single in my early 30s (unfortunately!). I am an asian and could speak basic japanese. No issues reading/ writing but i really suck at listening. I have an N2 cert.

As of now, i am unsure of the typical bonuses paid out in the jpn offices. My company is headquartered in Switzerland and APAC is one of our biggest business region. But i too, have heard stories about how poorly japanese branches pay compared to their overseas counterparts.

Anyway, aside from the international license bit, any other downsides to driving in Tokyo?

C

The salary is more than enough to live comfortably, and I'd say it also wouldn't be a problem to get a car. I am not sure about HK, but you are aware that the working conditions in Japan are rather tough for many companies? As in, you will work a lot, like 12 hours a day with very few holidays, especially in the financial sector I imagine. It may be similar to HK, so no problem to adapt for you, but for Europeans for instance this can sometimes be off-putting. It may not be a problem for you, but it's just another thing to consider when making your decision.

I am working in a Japanese company for 5 years straight. True people work a lot but it depends on the company. My working day is 8 hours and I finished. If it is busy or there is a new project it can happen I need to work overtime. I know a lot of companies which changed there overwork to comply with the new Japanese regulation. Of course there are still enough companies where overwork is common.

Dear all,

Thanks for the replies.

I have heard of the notorious japanese working culture but how does it hold up in a foreign MNC?

I did some due diligence and found that the ratio between the locals and foreigners (frenchies, swiss, dutch) of my new workplace is around 3:1 ... hope that would help to alleviate / dilute away some of those notorious japanese centric working habits.

At my current workplace in HK, i am clocking an average of 11 -12 hrs each day for 5 days work week. Rarely i would come in on saturdays. For days that i know i would be working past 12 hrs, i would come in earlier, say 7am...

Typically, how long would it take for an expat to become PR and/or to purchase a property in japan?
I am looking to put aside at least JPY200k each month as savings. Currently, i am saving an average rate of 45%-55% of my salary every month (i really don't spend much!).. then again there's nothing much to do in HK.

C

Looking at your current work times, Japan won't be much of a problem in that aspect.

I don't know about a house (do you want one if you'll only stay 2 years?), but for PR it is generally at least 10 years. Unless you are coming in on a Highly Skilled Professional visa (at least 1 or 3 years) or marry a Japanese in the meantime (at least 3 years).

I'd say first see if you enjoy living there for a year or two before worrying about PR or buying property. ;)

Salary-wise, you'll be able to save plenty, although it depends a lot on your habits and where you end up living in Tokyo... housing can be expensive, and where it's inexpensive the commute can be trying. Another thing to ask your company about: are your residence taxes paid for by the company, or are you responsible for them yourself? And what about pension? Usually at major companies they pay for half of your pension while the other half is taken out of your paycheck... you should check how they do that as well. I still think you make more than enough to do very well in Tokyo, but those little things can take a chunk out of how much you might initially expect to save.

And if you like driving, you don't want to drive in Tokyo anyway... It's really annoying. Lots of traffic lights, lots of traffic at all hours of the day, and is often more trouble than it's worth. Parking can get VERY expensive, on top of the usual expenses of having a car; even if your apartment has parking, you'll most likely have to pay a monthly fee for it. If it doesn't, you have to arrange for parking at a garage or lot on a monthly basis (I *think* they have yearly too though). And you have to have a parking spot verified by the police BEFORE buying a car. That said, plenty of people keep cars in Tokyo... they just go outside the city to actually enjoy driving them!

What you could do is keep a car outside of the city out where the parking rates are much cheaper, but easily reached by train from where you live. Then on weekends or holidays you could enjoy driving without having to deal with Tokyo traffic.

But as others have said, it seems to me that if you really like driving and want a fancy car, renting is a good way to go. You can enjoy the driving without all the hassle of parking and maintenance.

And as another poster said, you'll have to convert your HK license into a Japanese one before your IDP expires, and that is NOT a walk in the park. Unfortunately, you'll be stuck taking the written and driving test. The written isn't bad, but the driving test can be one huge lesson in frustration at Japanese bureaucracy. So be prepared for that extra bit of hassle if you plan to do any driving. Free advice: begin the process to change your license ASAP and get it over with...don't wait until the last minute!

Hello,

Indeed, you are right.

I was thinking of moving out of HK and settle my life down somewhere... not too far away from home so i could still conveniently visit my parents and family members. Not sure if Jpn will be the right choice but we shall see...

Another thing that worries me is the general market outlook in Jpn, especially within the financial industry. Many foreign firms/banks came and go, they just couldnt compete against the local firms who are able to operate at a thinner margin despite the rising costs.

I'll discuss this more with my family members and fellow peers in the industry before making my decision (next monday!).

Hello scarreddragon,

Thanks for the info. That was insightful. I'm not sure about the residence taxes but the pension part is pretty much as what you said. We have an almost similar scheme in HK.

I guess i'll stick with Uber ( if there is any in Jpn?) And renting until I have everything sorted out. I experienced the morning peak hour train rides back when i visited Jpn... geez... would prefer to avoid the trains as much as possible at those timings.

I also would need to check with my HR if its a fully furnished apartment or an empty one...

C

Regarding permanent resident I think if you can get Highli Skilled Professionally visa (which with your age and salary should be okay if you have some university degree, taking N1 would also help) then I think it now only takes 1 year (or maybe 3). You can buy a flat while still not a permanent resident. A Taiwanese colleague of me did so.

Regarding driving license it depends you might be able to just convert yours in a Japanese. It works for some nationals (e.g. Germans and Taiwanese). I am sure internet will answer that question. Then it only takes about 6 h at an office and you gaff your driving license.

If you don't like public transport for going to work maybe a motorcycle might be a better solution than a car? If living very close to office. But you get really used to the subway and if you don't need to be at 9 am sharp in the office it gets (somewhat) better.

Probably coming from HK you will enjoy all the green mountains around Tokyo.

Well think it over, but Tokyo is definitely a great place to live. I think...

BTW some HK friends living in Tokyo think that HK is way more expensive than Tokyo.
I personally would say that Tokyo isn't much more expensive that Western Europe. And many things (e.g. Lunch) are cheaper.

Hello LikeBike,

Thank you for the info. I would certainly take bikes into consideration. I am not sure about the residential location yet but doing some rough numbers crunching, i would prefer to pay around 120-150k at most. I don't need verrry big apartments. Makes cleaning a chore !

I was having a chat with my colleague from Singapore. Was told that asian foreigners like me would find it difficult to fit in/ mingle, partly because the locals would expect us to have speak and know their culture ( i don't know how true is that!).

This brings up another point although it is not cost related, that is how difficult it is to make new friends in Jpn? My to-be colleagues are mostly in their late 40s to early 50s so i don't think they'll sync with me well (?) Even if I only stay for 2 years, its mind numbing to not have any friends to hang out with / chat with / having drinks or cup of coffee ( not work drinks, we have those in HK too).

C

Um, well I can't speak to how Asian males are treated (being a European female). But in any new place and that would go even for my own country from a certain age it gets more complicated to make new friends because people already have friends or , "worse" have kids and just disappear from the friends-hanging-out-together world.

So the best thing will be to find some hobby where you can join some kind of regular activity with other likeminded people. E.g. I hang out with people how like bikes ( as in bicycles not motor bikes). Or you can join a Japanese language school which will bring you friends and more chances at making Japanese friends down the line.

There is no guarantee that you will enjoy living in Tokyo. I can only say that Tokyo is definitely one of the easiest cities to enjoy I have ever lived in. (Experience pool: Berlin, Moscow, Rome, Madrid). This still only means that I enjoy Tokyo (and I think many co posters on this web page) but there are definitely people out there who don't.

If you have never been to Tokyo and as your company seems to have great interest in transferring you here, maybe you could ask for a week or two of business trip to Tokyo to get to know your future colleagues the city and everything?

Do you currently drive by car to work in HK? I have never been in HK but I would have expected it to be a city even worse than Tokyo for driving. Packed and impossible to park. I'd imagine.

Motorbikes are not very popular in Japan. Nothing like TAiwan, and you cannot just park on the street but I would imagine it to be more convenient than car.

Traffic police is quite strict here and speed limits low. So even driving on a highway I think the speed limit is something like 120 km/h. So maybe if your main interest is cars you should move to Germany ; -) and happily speed at 200 km/h in less densely populated areas on the highway 😇

Hi LikeBike,

I guess you are right. Perhaps joining an interest group might be an easier option to make new friends.

From what i gathered, there will not be any "recce" trips prior to the transfer. Just video conference interviews and thats it. Once i give my verbal agreement, HR and my bosses would submit an trsf application to the head office for approval before signing on the dotted line. It'll be a career-suicide for me if i were to back out after the approval.

Anyway, i've been to Tokyo as a tourist 2 times.. never really got to experience much of the daily life there.
To your question about driving, yes i do drive to work in HK. Based on the info given by some of the users here, owning a car in Jpn is somewhat similar in HK.

Car price itself is okay here, but the parking fees and parking lots (home) can cost a arm and a leg depending on the location. A home parking lot could go as high up as few hundred thousands in USD equivalent. I usually park outside of the CBD and take the train ( we call it the MTR) in. Wayyyy cheaper than if i were to park in the building. Not that i couldnt afford it but it makes no sense to pay that much for parking every day. At least not in the current stage of my career....

HK is essentially a concrete jungle. We do have some forested hills here and there... but well... the views are pretty crappy. Still, i enjoy driving in HK.

I aam setting up a meeting with my HR and my boss/manager to understand more about the scope and what the transfer package consists of. This may be a good chance for me to finally move out of HK.


C

Dear all,

Just an update -
I had an initial discussion with my country HR and my manager. Mainly on job scopes, lodging, remuneration components, employee benefits and such. Other matters such as taxes and other mandatory deductibles will be shared in greater detail by the country HR based in JPN.

Was told that my apartment will be based in Chiyoda-Ku, minimally a 1LDK and/or capped at JPY250K/month. Initial + first 3 months will be settled by the company and after which I am on my own.

Overall, my monthly gross salary (before all deductibles) will be around JPY900K. I will be based there for at least 3 years (instead of 2!).

Downside is that - I am expected to leave work at around 9pm - 10pm++ as there are conference calls between my counterparts sitting in Europe and me + my colleagues sitting in Asia. :(

I don't know if I would even have any time to go socializing / making new friends... !

Anyway, thanks for all the posters and their feedback in this thread. Much appreciated!

Ask about the policy for illegal overtime - being required to stay in the office until 9-10 at night is a pain.

Also you comment about Uber - it did so badly here they deliver food. You don't need a car in Tokyo (I miss driving and my car, but not in Tokyo).

250k/month for rent - that is why expats think it is expensive, they are living on company accounts and spend waaaaayyyy too much on rent (and everything else).