Itinerary question Mount Fuji -Takayama

Hi there!

Looking for some advice..
Going to Japan middle of October ( 4 people total ):

SAT Arrival Tokyo Haneda at 9 PM, booked a hotel in Ginza area
SUN Tokyo
MON Tokyo
TUE to THU would like to go to Mount Fuji AND Takayama
FRI Kyoto
SAT one day trip to Hiroshima
SUN Kyoto and travel to Osaka by Shinkansen in late afternoon or evening to stay two nights
MON Universal Studios in Osaka
TUE departure from Kansai Airport

The problem lies in TUE to THU part of the trip. We will travel between cities with Shinkansen but we would also like to do a small part of self-drive.

Would it be a good idea to travel by Shinkansen from Tokyo to Odawara Station, pick up rental car, drive to visit Hakone ropeway etc. and 5th station, stay one night at Lake Kawaguchi. Next morning long drive to Takayama, stay one night Takayama, next morning visit Takayama, drive to Nagoya, drop off rental car ( extra costs for different drop off location is ok ) and take Shinkansen from there to Kyoto.

Actually the main reason why we would go to Takayama is to see some of the autumn leaves and it seems in middle of OCT this is the only area where autumn has started?

If it seems Takayama is not a good idea we would travel by Shinkansen from Tokyo to Odawara Station, pick up rental car, drive to visit Hakone ropeway etc. and Yunessan Onsen ( requested by our teenage kids ) stay one night in Hakone, Next morning drive to 5th station and stay a night at Lake Kawaguchi, next day drive back to Odawara and take Shinkansen to Kyoto. But hopefully the weather is good on those two days so we can see Mount Fuji!

Any advice would be appreciated...thank you!!!

I see no reason to drive or use the shinkansen between Tokyo and Kyoto.

Hakone to Kawaguchiko is an easy bus.
Kawaguchiko to Takayama is better using buses via Matsumoto.

Thanks for your reply!
I will check out the bus now.. not sure if I still need a JR pass then..

I also looked at a one day tour to Nikko from Tokyo now to see some foliage.. any advice on this? Would book a one day tour but looks like most companies skip Kegon falls and the lake during that season due to busy roads?

Jorudan lists 150 destinations for Koyo in mid-October. I believe roughly half are related to driving courses.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/migoro_10b.html

I pick up some form them.

Nikko Irohazaka
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_54985.html
Nikko Lake Chuzenji
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_54983.html
Both are easy by bus from JR/Tobu Nikko station to Lake Chuzenji.

Hakone Tozan Tetsudo between Tonosawa and Ohiradai stations. You would be better to go to Hakone by train.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_J0083.html

Here are some routes from Kawaguchiko to Kyoto.

1. There is a direct bus from Kawaguchiko to Takayama. However, you may check out a car at Kawaguchiko, run through Lake Motosuko and Hirayu to get to Takayama. You may drop at Shin-Hotaka on the way.
http://bus-en.fujikyu.co.jp/highway/detail/id/38

Lake Motosuko is the most western one in Fuji five lakes.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_104824.html
Hirayu Otaki is a waterfall near Hirayu Onsen.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_104827.html
Shin-Hotaka Ropeway
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_55056.html

There is a direct bus from Gotemba to Kawaguchiko. But you may check out a car at Gotemba earlier.
http://bus-en.fujikyu.co.jp/route/detail/id/1/

2. After Takayama, you may drive on Seseragi Road toward Gifu. Check in the car at Gifu-Hashima Shinkansen station.

Hida-Mino Seseragi Kaido is a road from Takayama to Gujo-Hachiaman.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_55057.html

3. Or, you may take a route to Shirakawago. Take White Road to Kanazawa to check in the car there.

World Heritage Shirakawago
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_J0101.html
Hakusan Shirakawago WhiteRoad runs from Shirakawago to Kanazawa.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_55034.html

4. Or, you may go to Shinano-Omachi from Kawaguchiko by train. Follow the Alpine Route to get to Toyama. No driving in this route.

Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route / Tateyama Ropeway
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_J0194.html
Tateyama Bijodaira is at the lower west end of the Alpine Route.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_55031.html
Shomyotaki is a 350-meter waterfall near Bijodaira.
https://sp.jorudan.co.jp/leaf/spot_J0180.html

I might spend a night at Hiroshima. I just prefer to get back to Osaka, rather than to Kyoto.

Thank you so much for the detailed information.
I�fll check everything out and start planning again!

You only need a 5Day Kansai-Hiroshima pass for you Kyoto and Hiroshima part of your trip.

The quickest and most direct route is only using JR services from Kanazawa to Kyoto, for your route between Tokyo and Kyoto.

If you go Odawara to Kawaguchiko to Takayama to Kanazawa, all by buses, which are cheaper and faster than JR services. The Kanazawa to Kyoto is the only section by JR train. But there are bus options also available which are somewhat cheaper but only slightly slower.

Hakusan Shirakawago WhiteRoad runs from Shirakawago to Komatsu. Check in the car at JR Komatsu, or proceed further. Going to JR Kanazawa is a detour.

1: Why would you want to drive?
2: Go to Nikko, and even then it might be early, otherwise Takayama is worth visiting even without autumn leaves - you are a bit early.
3: Spend more time in Takayama/Kyoto and less in Hakone.

Thank you for all your helpful replies!

Given the fact we only have limited time, I guess we will stay a night longer in Tokyo to do a one day trip to Nikko. Anyone has any idea how busy it would get middle October? I read the roads can be very busy during foliage season and not possible to go to Lake Chuzenji and Kegon Falls. I would think to go there first thing in the morning when we get to Nikko and the other sites visit in the afternoon. I guess Tobu bus is the best way to get around? Anyone any experience with the 'Tobu sightseeing bus'?

We would then just stay one night in Hakone. Maybe not necessary to rent a car after all, we just like the idea of driving around a bit and more freedom to stop at different places but transportation seems so well organized there and like the idea of taking all the different kinds of transport there. Mishima Skywalk looks exciting too ( traveling with young teenagers: we need to keep things exciting ;-) )

We would then skip Takayama and use as an excuse to come to Japan a second time.

Appreciate all your help! Thank you!

Most people follow calendar days. One says there are no traffic jams on weekdays.
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1373651673

Most people do Nikko as a day trip. Some say traffic jams start around 7:00 for an up. For a return, jams begin around 14:00.

The best option would be a stay in Okunikko on a weekday. Climb up in the afternoon and go down in the morning on the next day.

The sunrise and sunset times are 6:00 and 17:00 in mid-October in Nikko. The core jam time is 8:00-13:00. The prediction by the local government is 6:30-13:00.

Unfortunately, the Kegon waterfall faces toward the east. Akechidaira Ropeway does not operate early morning. This would be the main reason for the core jam time.

But the situation would be highly sensitive to the weather. If it would be sunny, many people try to go there even at the sunset time.